Aircraft Import/Ferry

[Conflicting Traffic]

Hey Folks. I'm in the process of purchasing an aircraft in the U.S. Before the import and Canadian registration process can start, apparently it has to be physically present in Canada. It's U.S. registered, and I don't have an FAA license (TCCA only). Is there a way (e.g. - some sort of ferry permit) that I can fly it to Canada myself without doing an FAA license conversion?

[philaviate]

As far as I know you need a ferry pilot with FAA licence.

Depending on the plane I could help you with that if you liked. Pm me if you want to chat.

[digits_]

I believe there is (was?) a way to slap a temporary registration on the plane so you can fly it across the border yourself with a Canadian license.

[scdriver]

I know a guy who ferried an N registered machine up to Alaska after maintenance in BC without an FAA licence but I don’t know the specifics, I think it might be possible though since he did that

[goldeneagle]

When I brought an airplane up, we just stopped at an FAA site, they issued me the equivalent of an American ppl based on my Canadian ATPL. Granted, that was 20+ years ago, but it was only a half hour of paperwork for us back then. The only caveat was, he said we couldn't fly IFR because the conversion didn't include the instrument rating, basically just a ppl good for day vfr.

[khedrei]

When I brought an airplane up, we just stopped at an FAA site, they issued me the equivalent of an American ppl based on my Canadian ATPL. Granted, that was 20+ years ago, but it was only a half hour of paperwork for us back then. The only caveat was, he said we couldn't fly IFR because the conversion didn't include the instrument rating, basically just a ppl good for day vfr.

I haven't done this but I believe its still accurate as I have a friend who has this very thing. Ppl only. Call a FSDO in the US and ask them about the process.

Otherwise a ferry pilot isn't a big expense in the world of aircraft ownership. There will be bigger bills coming.

[philaviate]

When I brought an airplane up, we just stopped at an FAA site, they issued me the equivalent of an American ppl based on my Canadian ATPL. Granted, that was 20+ years ago, but it was only a half hour of paperwork for us back then. The only caveat was, he said we couldn't fly IFR because the conversion didn't include the instrument rating, basically just a ppl good for day vfr.

Not so easy now.
You need to submit a verification request. Then do exams, one for the ppl or cpl, another for instrument rating. Then do a FAA medical. Then apply to a fsdo for the issuance.
The exams can only be done in the USA.

Also you need a USA address on file, either a friend/family member or a lawyer etc who will notify you of any mail the faa send out.

The whole process took me a few months and about $1000 for the medical, exams etc.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

And that gets you a VFR PPL?

[philaviate]

And that gets you a VFR PPL?

It gets you whatever you have in TC land. EXCEPT it doesn't transfer ATPL and Flight Instructor. The ATPL is a whole other story involving a course etc etc. Instructor you have to do just the same as any other FAA instructor candidate would.


So in my instance, I had a TC group 1 IFR CPL at the time, obviously with night and multi engine. I did the Canada to FAA CPL conversion exam, and the IFR exam. They they issued me a FAA licence that's the same as my TC one.


If you have a TC PPL, without night rating, you'll get a Day only FAA PPL. If you have night, you'll get a full FAA PPL, and so on.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I see. So if the above gets you a Commercial multi-IFR do you really need that ATPL conversion course, or can you just write their ATPL exam(s) and do a type rating and get your ATPL that way?

[goldeneagle]

ok, so this got me to looking. Go digging on the faa website, eventually you will find this

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... _CHG_1.pdf

So for the PPL looks like you need an FAA medical, and have to pass the conversion test. Seems the same for the other licenses as well, with the added extra hoop of a course for the ATP, altho it appears if you have not taken that course, they will issue the FAA cpl based on the Canadian ATPL if you do the conversion test.

Yup, a lot more hoops today. Glad I dont have to deal with such things anymore.

[philaviate]

I see. So if the above gets you a Commercial multi-IFR do you really need that ATPL conversion course, or can you just write their ATPL exam(s) and do a type rating and get your ATPL that way?

Yes, the course is mandatory for all ATPL in FAA land.

If you have a TC ATPL, and don't do the course, but do do the FAA conversion exams, you'll just get an FAA CPL.

[philaviate]

ok, so this got me to looking. Go digging on the faa website, eventually you will find this

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... _CHG_1.pdf

So for the PPL looks like you need an FAA medical, and have to pass the conversion test. Seems the same for the other licenses as well, with the added extra hoop of a course for the ATP, altho it appears if you have not taken that course, they will issue the FAA cpl based on the Canadian ATPL if you do the conversion test.

Yup, a lot more hoops today. Glad I dont have to deal with such things anymore.

I wasn't making it up, I've done it.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I see. So if the above gets you a Commercial multi-IFR do you really need that ATPL conversion course, or can you just write their ATPL exam(s) and do a type rating and get your ATPL that way?

Yes, the course is mandatory for all ATPL in FAA land.

If you have a TC ATPL, and don't do the course, but do do the FAA conversion exams, you'll just get an FAA CPL.

Got it. So the course is mandatory even if you aren't a foreigner. Schools must have loved that one.

[philaviate]

I see. So if the above gets you a Commercial multi-IFR do you really need that ATPL conversion course, or can you just write their ATPL exam(s) and do a type rating and get your ATPL that way?

Yes, the course is mandatory for all ATPL in FAA land.

If you have a TC ATPL, and don't do the course, but do do the FAA conversion exams, you'll just get an FAA CPL.

Got it. So the course is mandatory even if you aren't a foreigner. Schools must have loved that one.

Yes, for multi engine ATPL.

I believe there are some loopholes for some obscure scenarios, but for multi engine planes, which obviously any job requiring an ATPL is likely going to be, then you need it.

[pelmet]

ok, so this got me to looking. Go digging on the faa website, eventually you will find this

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... _CHG_1.pdf

So for the PPL looks like you need an FAA medical, and have to pass the conversion test. Seems the same for the other licenses as well, with the added extra hoop of a course for the ATP, altho it appears if you have not taken that course, they will issue the FAA cpl based on the Canadian ATPL if you do the conversion test.

Yup, a lot more hoops today. Glad I dont have to deal with such things anymore.

Bad info. That is for a stand-alone FAA pilots license.

Under part 61.75, you can get an FAA license with private pilot privileges based on your valid foreign license from a country in ICAO and medical(which must accompany any the issued American license to make it valid). It is mostly a paperwork exercise except that you will have to do a Flight Review(which is not a test) every two years, including prior to initial flying as PIC. Your Canadian medical alone is sufficient. Keep in mind that some flight schools, including some FAA reg super savvy flight instructors are not aware of this medical requirement, as I discovered in just the last month.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR ... c61-75.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOoUX6-t0zg


The days of quickly going into a FSDO and getting all paperwork completed are long gone(thanks to 9/11). Now, a verification process is required to prove that you and your provided documentation are legit(instead of lies and forgery). How do they do that? Trust But Verify. So they confirm with a legitimate source that you have the credentials you told them you have, by contacting the governing aviation authority of the license holder. That takes time. Then they issue you your license(at the FSDO of your choice for personal pick-up).

How do I know about the old way and the new time-consuming way? Because I did both. You might be asking yourself why I would do it twice. That is due to a discovery that I made in a “run-in” I had with an FAA inspector. Your American license is based on your Canadian license and it refers to that specific license number(such a CA123456). If you are subsequently issued a new license number(such AA123456 because you got your ATPL, as I subsequently did), your American license is now referring to a license number that is no longer in existence, so you have to do whatever is required to have it updated.

Of minor interest for regulation nerds is that this ‘piggyback’ American license only gives you private pilot privileges and says PRIVATE PILOT on it, even if you have a higher license in your own country. But really cool pilots(like myself) might have a higher rating indicated on their American license, even though it still only gives private pilot privileges. Why? Because we are grandfathered from the earlier process(and we are cooler). So my license says COMMERCIAL PILOT and there may be super cool guys with airline transport pilot written in their US license that only gives private pilot privileges.

Another thing that might ‘smel’ a little fishy to many American pilots, with regard to the privileges allowed by my American license, is that despite only having a basic float rating in Canada, they issued my license with the acronym SMELS which means Single and Multi-Engine Land and Sea. I suppose this means that I could legally operate a N registered Beech 18 on floats or some other interesting aircraft as PIC, even though an American pilot would have to do a multi-engine seaplane check ride to gain such a privilege.

Note: Mr FAA inspector guy also mentioned that a foreigner needs to write a specific exam for foreigner to use this license for IFR flying.

[Me262]

ok, so this got me to looking. Go digging on the faa website, eventually you will find this

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... _CHG_1.pdf

So for the PPL looks like you need an FAA medical, and have to pass the conversion test. Seems the same for the other licenses as well, with the added extra hoop of a course for the ATP, altho it appears if you have not taken that course, they will issue the FAA cpl based on the Canadian ATPL if you do the conversion test.

Yup, a lot more hoops today. Glad I dont have to deal with such things anymore.

Not valid info. That is for a stand-alone FAA pilots license.

Under part 61.75, you can get an FAA license with private pilot privileges based on your valid Canadian license and medical(which must accompany any the issued American license to make it valid). It is mostly a paperwork exercise except that you will have to do a Flight Review(which is not a test) every two years, including prior to initial flying as PIC. Your Canadian medical alone is sufficient. Keep in mind that some flight schools, including some FAA reg super savvy flight instructors are not aware of this medical requirement, as I discovered in just the last month.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR ... c61-75.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOoUX6-t0zg


The days of quickly going into a FSDO and getting all paperwork completed are long gone(thanks to 9/11). Now, a verification process is required to prove that you and your provided documentation are legit(instead of lies and forgery). How do they do that? Trust But Verify. So they confirm with a legitimate source that you have the credentials you told them you have, by contacting the governing aviation authority of the license holder. That takes time. Then they issue you your license(at the FSDO of your choice for personal pick-up).

How do I know about the old way and the new time-consuming way? Because I did both. You might be asking yourself why I would do it twice. That is due to a discovery that I made in a “run-in” I had with an FAA inspector. Your American license is based on your Canadian license and it refers to that specific license number(such a CA123456). If you are subsequently issued a new license number(such AA123456 because you got your ATPL, as I subsequently did), your American license is now referring to a license number that is no longer in existence, so you have to do whatever is required to have it updated.

Of minor interest for regulation nerds is that this ‘piggyback’ American license only gives you private pilot privileges and says PRIVATE PILOT on it, even if you have a higher license in your own country. But really cool pilots(like myself) might have a higher rating indicated on their American license, even though it still only gives private pilot privileges. Why? Because we are grandfathered from the earlier process(and we are cooler). So my license says COMMERCIAL PILOT and there may be super cool guys with airline transport pilot written in their US license that only gives private pilot privileges.

Another thing that might ‘smel’ a little fishy to many American pilots, with regard to the privileges allowed by my American license, is that despite only having a basic float rating in Canada, they issued my license with the acronym SMELS which means Single and Multi-Engine Land and Sea. I suppose this means that I could legally operate a N registered Beech 18 on floats or some other interesting aircraft as PIC, even though an American pilot would have to do a multi-engine seaplane check ride to gain such a privilege.

Note: Mr FAA inspector guy also mentioned that a foreigner needs to write a specific exam for foreigner to use this license for IFR flying.

To add, that verification is now done directly with TC in less than a week. The verification letter will include both FAA and TC verification. Unfortunately you still have to visit an FSDO. Not sure why since they get the verification straight from TC that confirms all your licenses.

[philaviate]

ok, so this got me to looking. Go digging on the faa website, eventually you will find this

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... _CHG_1.pdf

So for the PPL looks like you need an FAA medical, and have to pass the conversion test. Seems the same for the other licenses as well, with the added extra hoop of a course for the ATP, altho it appears if you have not taken that course, they will issue the FAA cpl based on the Canadian ATPL if you do the conversion test.

Yup, a lot more hoops today. Glad I dont have to deal with such things anymore.

Bad info. That is for a stand-alone FAA pilots license.

Under part 61.75, you can get an FAA license with private pilot privileges based on your valid foreign license from a country in ICAO and medical(which must accompany any the issued American license to make it valid). It is mostly a paperwork exercise except that you will have to do a Flight Review(which is not a test) every two years, including prior to initial flying as PIC. Your Canadian medical alone is sufficient. Keep in mind that some flight schools, including some FAA reg super savvy flight instructors are not aware of this medical requirement, as I discovered in just the last month.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR ... c61-75.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOoUX6-t0zg


The days of quickly going into a FSDO and getting all paperwork completed are long gone(thanks to 9/11). Now, a verification process is required to prove that you and your provided documentation are legit(instead of lies and forgery). How do they do that? Trust But Verify. So they confirm with a legitimate source that you have the credentials you told them you have, by contacting the governing aviation authority of the license holder. That takes time. Then they issue you your license(at the FSDO of your choice for personal pick-up).

How do I know about the old way and the new time-consuming way? Because I did both. You might be asking yourself why I would do it twice. That is due to a discovery that I made in a “run-in” I had with an FAA inspector. Your American license is based on your Canadian license and it refers to that specific license number(such a CA123456). If you are subsequently issued a new license number(such AA123456 because you got your ATPL, as I subsequently did), your American license is now referring to a license number that is no longer in existence, so you have to do whatever is required to have it updated.

Of minor interest for regulation nerds is that this ‘piggyback’ American license only gives you private pilot privileges and says PRIVATE PILOT on it, even if you have a higher license in your own country. But really cool pilots(like myself) might have a higher rating indicated on their American license, even though it still only gives private pilot privileges. Why? Because we are grandfathered from the earlier process(and we are cooler). So my license says COMMERCIAL PILOT and there may be super cool guys with airline transport pilot written in their US license that only gives private pilot privileges.

Another thing that might ‘smel’ a little fishy to many American pilots, with regard to the privileges allowed by my American license, is that despite only having a basic float rating in Canada, they issued my license with the acronym SMELS which means Single and Multi-Engine Land and Sea. I suppose this means that I could legally operate a N registered Beech 18 on floats or some other interesting aircraft as PIC, even though an American pilot would have to do a multi-engine seaplane check ride to gain such a privilege.

Note: Mr FAA inspector guy also mentioned that a foreigner needs to write a specific exam for foreigner to use this license for IFR flying.

Seems like just about the same amount of effort/potentially more effort, than just getting the stand alone FAA conversion which is a one and done process and you get all the same endorsements.
The only downside to the full FAA one is you need to keep a FAA medical too. But some docs here in Canada can do both at the same time each year for you.

Also, the full FAA conversion way doesn't require an in person visit to the FSDO for issuance of the licence.
I emailed the FSDO and the guy set up a zoom meeting for me to do it online. He emailed me the temp licence there and then, and the card came in the mail.

[pelmet]

Seems like just about the same amount of effort/potentially more effort, than just getting the stand alone FAA conversion which is a one and done process and you get all the same endorsements.

I can't comment on the other method as I have not done it but reading that conversion process Advisory Circular alone looks like it could take days compared to a few minutes to read FAR 61.75.

[philaviate]

Seems like just about the same amount of effort/potentially more effort, than just getting the stand alone FAA conversion which is a one and done process and you get all the same endorsements.

I can't comment on the other method as I have not done it but reading that conversion process Advisory Circular alone looks like it could take days compared to a few minutes to read FAR 61.75.

You still need to do the iacra verification which is the part that often takes the longest.

But I guess it does mean you don't need to study or pay for the exams either. So for a simple occasional use might be the way to go.

But the full conversion can definitely be worth it for work opportunities flying N reg planes.

[pelmet]

Seems like just about the same amount of effort/potentially more effort, than just getting the stand alone FAA conversion which is a one and done process and you get all the same endorsements.

I can't comment on the other method as I have not done it but reading that conversion process Advisory Circular alone looks like it could take days compared to a few minutes to read FAR 61.75.

You still need to do the iacra verification which is the part that often takes the longest.

But I guess it does mean you don't need to study or pay for the exams either. So for a simple occasional use might be the way to go.

But the full conversion can definitely be worth it for work opportunities flying N reg planes.

Thanks.

I am curious about what extra privileges does one have by actually getting the American private pilot license versus getting the license based on their foreign certificate.


Could you let us know.

[philaviate]

I can't comment on the other method as I have not done it but reading that conversion process Advisory Circular alone looks like it could take days compared to a few minutes to read FAR 61.75.

You still need to do the iacra verification which is the part that often takes the longest.

But I guess it does mean you don't need to study or pay for the exams either. So for a simple occasional use might be the way to go.

But the full conversion can definitely be worth it for work opportunities flying N reg planes.

Thanks.

I am curious about what extra privileges does one have by actually getting the American private pilot license versus getting the license based on their foreign certificate.


Could you let us know.

Well firstly you actually have two separate licences. You can keep one or both active.
And for professional pilots, you obviously need the commercial licence anyway, so the stand alone is the one you need.
Also you're not restricted in what endorsements you can have on it like it appears you are with the piggyback one.

Some of my work colleagues don't even bother keeping their TC licence valid as they exclusively use their FAA licence for work and don't fly in Canada recreationally.

If it's a very rare thing you'll use it, then the piggyback one is likely fine. But for the tiny bit more up front hassle and the cost of a annual medical I think the full licence is worth it. I've flown more N registered planes for work in Canada than I have C reg ones. So there are definitely work opportunities for FAA holders in Canada.

[pelmet]

You still need to do the iacra verification which is the part that often takes the longest.

But I guess it does mean you don't need to study or pay for the exams either. So for a simple occasional use might be the way to go.

But the full conversion can definitely be worth it for work opportunities flying N reg planes.

Thanks.

I am curious about what extra privileges does one have by actually getting the American private pilot license versus getting the license based on their foreign certificate.


Could you let us know.

Well firstly you actually have two separate licences. You can keep one or both active.
And for professional pilots, you obviously need the commercial licence anyway, so the stand alone is the one you need.
Also you're not restricted in what endorsements you can have on it like it appears you are with the piggyback one.

Some of my work colleagues don't even bother keeping their TC licence valid as they exclusively use their FAA licence for work and don't fly in Canada recreationally.

If it's a very rare thing you'll use it, then the piggyback one is likely fine. But for the tiny bit more up front hassle and the cost of a annual medical I think the full licence is worth it. I've flown more N registered planes for work in Canada than I have C reg ones. So there are definitely work opportunities for FAA holders in Canada.

Thanks.

However, I don’t fully understand your reply. Could you explain further your first sentence about two licences?

For flying commercially, stand alone is required as step along the way. But I believe that the original poster is not interested in doing this. Therefore, good comment but not applicable to most of us.

Could you give specific details on what endorsements are restricted on a piggyback license versus the stand-alone license?

[goldeneagle]

Could you give specific details on what endorsements are restricted on a piggyback license versus the stand-alone license?

When I got mine, guy was clear, none of the ratings come across, so no ifr, and no type ratings. In our case, didn't matter, I was flying a Cessna to Canada. Ability to file IFR may have been helpful if we ran into wx issues, but we didn't, so it didn't matter.

[philaviate]

Thanks.

I am curious about what extra privileges does one have by actually getting the American private pilot license versus getting the license based on their foreign certificate.


Could you let us know.

Well firstly you actually have two separate licences. You can keep one or both active.
And for professional pilots, you obviously need the commercial licence anyway, so the stand alone is the one you need.
Also you're not restricted in what endorsements you can have on it like it appears you are with the piggyback one.

Some of my work colleagues don't even bother keeping their TC licence valid as they exclusively use their FAA licence for work and don't fly in Canada recreationally.

If it's a very rare thing you'll use it, then the piggyback one is likely fine. But for the tiny bit more up front hassle and the cost of a annual medical I think the full licence is worth it. I've flown more N registered planes for work in Canada than I have C reg ones. So there are definitely work opportunities for FAA holders in Canada.

Thanks.

However, I don’t fully understand your reply. Could you explain further your first sentence about two licences?

For flying commercially, stand alone is required as step along the way. But I believe that the original poster is not interested in doing this. Therefore, good comment but not applicable to most of us.

Could you give specific details on what endorsements are restricted on a piggyback license versus the stand-alone license?

The piggyback one is only valid if your TC one is valid.

With the true FAA conversion I actually have two licences. TC a d FAA. I could stop medicals in Canada and still have FAA or vice versa.

I can also fly multi engine, or type rated planes etc on my faa. You cannot do that on the piggyback one.


So yes, for a simple one time ferry, likely overkill. But personally for a one time ferry I'd just find a ferry pilot.

But for the slight amount of effort, if you're a commercial pilot in Canada, might as well just get the full FAA as it can be quite useful here. I fly a number of contracts for companies flying N registered planes, and the pay is significantly higher than flying similar jobs for Canadian companies. So my $1000 investment in getting my FAA paid me back ten fold that the first month I used it.