Who Wants to Fly WJ

[nohojob]

Agreed ! We should work for free and stop complaining!

[safetyfirst123]

Maybe you Ex Sunwing pilots should learn the WJ SOP’s. It’s not that complicated regardless of your views. You guys and gals look very simple for the lack of competence with the WJ operation.

Maybe have a look at that Westjet operation, if you want to talk about competence. How's that reduction bid looking now? Why was the operation "right sized" in the first place? How about the "we are overstaffed since the merger" crap that some still believe? Pilots will bitch about this or that, but I have a hard time believing that Ex Sunwing pilots don't know the Westjet SOP's. That hasn't been my experience.

[Blackdog0301]

Maybe you Ex Sunwing pilots should learn the WJ SOP’s. It’s not that complicated regardless of your views. You guys and gals look very simple for the lack of competence with the WJ operation.

Maybe have a look at that Westjet operation, if you want to talk about competence. How's that reduction bid looking now? Why was the operation "right sized" in the first place? How about the "we are overstaffed since the merger" crap that some still believe? Pilots will bitch about this or that, but I have a hard time believing that Ex Sunwing pilots don't know the Westjet SOP's. That hasn't been my experience.

Unfortunately, my experience with Sunwing pilots resembles what Shark describes. Missed standard callouts, making up callouts, them encroaching into my flows. I flew with a Sunwing captain who missed every single standard callout on an ILS approach down to 500 feet. Every one. No apologies or explanations. Incompetence or laziness, both are inexcusable. I've been paired in the sim with former Sunwing pilots and I always feel like I'm the one fighting to keep the ship upright. You got to keep your left seat. Congratulations. Why don't you learn the SOP's?
Sunwing airlines doesn't exist anymore. Time to move on. I don't want to hear you complaining all flight long that the arbitrated ruling was unfair, or hear about how awesome Sunwing was, or how miserable you are at WestJet. Grow up.

[safetyfirst123]

Maybe you Ex Sunwing pilots should learn the WJ SOP’s. It’s not that complicated regardless of your views. You guys and gals look very simple for the lack of competence with the WJ operation.

Maybe have a look at that Westjet operation, if you want to talk about competence. How's that reduction bid looking now? Why was the operation "right sized" in the first place? How about the "we are overstaffed since the merger" crap that some still believe? Pilots will bitch about this or that, but I have a hard time believing that Ex Sunwing pilots don't know the Westjet SOP's. That hasn't been my experience.

Unfortunately, my experience with Sunwing pilots resembles what Shark describes. Missed standard callouts, making up callouts, them encroaching into my flows. I flew with a Sunwing captain who missed every single standard callout on an ILS approach down to 500 feet. Every one. No apologies or explanations. Incompetence or laziness, both are inexcusable. I've been paired in the sim with former Sunwing pilots and I always feel like I'm the one fighting to keep the ship upright. You got to keep your left seat. Congratulations. Why don't you learn the SOP's?
Sunwing airlines doesn't exist anymore. Time to move on. I don't want to hear you complaining all flight long that the arbitrated ruling was unfair, or hear about how awesome Sunwing was, or how miserable you are at WestJet. Grow up.

Run another bid to actually right size YYZ, work towards having less pilots commuting which would have more pilots available to pick up overtime and reduce cancellations, let us use the scratchpad and enable radalt callouts that come with the 737

[truecolours]

Maybe have a look at that Westjet operation, if you want to talk about competence. How's that reduction bid looking now? Why was the operation "right sized" in the first place? How about the "we are overstaffed since the merger" crap that some still believe? Pilots will bitch about this or that, but I have a hard time believing that Ex Sunwing pilots don't know the Westjet SOP's. That hasn't been my experience.

Unfortunately, my experience with Sunwing pilots resembles what Shark describes. Missed standard callouts, making up callouts, them encroaching into my flows. I flew with a Sunwing captain who missed every single standard callout on an ILS approach down to 500 feet. Every one. No apologies or explanations. Incompetence or laziness, both are inexcusable. I've been paired in the sim with former Sunwing pilots and I always feel like I'm the one fighting to keep the ship upright. You got to keep your left seat. Congratulations. Why don't you learn the SOP's?
Sunwing airlines doesn't exist anymore. Time to move on. I don't want to hear you complaining all flight long that the arbitrated ruling was unfair, or hear about how awesome Sunwing was, or how miserable you are at WestJet. Grow up.

Run another bid to actually right size YYZ, work towards having less pilots commuting which would have more pilots available to pick up overtime and reduce cancellations, let us use the scratchpad and enable radalt callouts that come with the 737

So that is the attitude causing problems.

They aren’t enabled, so deal with it.

Your paystub says WestJet. You follow their sops.

If you can’t remember push instructions without using the scratchpad, well, your CAME should be made aware you have cognitive decline.

If you want to change sops, fill out the sop suggestion form.

All bases will be right sized again after this winter. My prediction is bases will be consolidated. Small bases aren’t working with the reserve requirements, inability to fill shifts, and book offs. East will all be YYZ, west will be YYC, YVR (with YWG maybe sneaking in). Crew planning despises the smaller bases and they were only created as a recruitment tool post Covid. Recruiting isn’t an issue anymore.

[Blackdog0301]

Maybe have a look at that Westjet operation, if you want to talk about competence. How's that reduction bid looking now? Why was the operation "right sized" in the first place? How about the "we are overstaffed since the merger" crap that some still believe? Pilots will bitch about this or that, but I have a hard time believing that Ex Sunwing pilots don't know the Westjet SOP's. That hasn't been my experience.

Unfortunately, my experience with Sunwing pilots resembles what Shark describes. Missed standard callouts, making up callouts, them encroaching into my flows. I flew with a Sunwing captain who missed every single standard callout on an ILS approach down to 500 feet. Every one. No apologies or explanations. Incompetence or laziness, both are inexcusable. I've been paired in the sim with former Sunwing pilots and I always feel like I'm the one fighting to keep the ship upright. You got to keep your left seat. Congratulations. Why don't you learn the SOP's?
Sunwing airlines doesn't exist anymore. Time to move on. I don't want to hear you complaining all flight long that the arbitrated ruling was unfair, or hear about how awesome Sunwing was, or how miserable you are at WestJet. Grow up.

Run another bid to actually right size YYZ, work towards having less pilots commuting which would have more pilots available to pick up overtime and reduce cancellations, let us use the scratchpad and enable radalt callouts that come with the 737

Then complain to someone who can actually make changes to these things. Don't complain to me. No one wants to listen to that crap for 3 hours straight. If you aren't able to hold Toronto as an FO, you are less than 3 years senior. Go to Porter or AC if you can't bear commuting. If you're a captain commuting, well I simply don't feel that bad for you. You chose the left seat over being Toronto based.

In terms of SOP's... Every airline is different. Sunwing SOP's are gone. You don't have a choice over which callouts you do or do not make. It's their way, or the highway. If something happens that is a result of you deviating from SOP's, that's 100% on you. Not the company's choice of aircraft options. You're a professional who makes more money than 90% of the people in this country. Act like it.

[safetyfirst123]

awwww shucks guys

[Handover]

Maybe you Ex Sunwing pilots should learn the WJ SOP’s. It’s not that complicated regardless of your views. You guys and gals look very simple for the lack of competence with the WJ operation. All of you bitch and complain all day long about how bad the SOP’s are, but no problem accepting the pay cheque.

.
Grow up. I’m ex-Sunwing, and honestly I couldn’t recite Boeing SOPs from memory if I tried anymore. There is only one current right way to do it and that is the WestJet way. That’s the point. SOPs exist for a reason, and nobody I know is arguing they shouldn’t be learned or followed.
This is my fourth Boeing operator. WestJet SOPs aren’t wrong, but they are an outlier. If they’re the only system you’ve ever known, they’ll feel normal. That doesn’t mean they’re optimal or immune to improvement.
Accepting a paycheque doesn’t require suspending professional judgment. You can comply, operate safely, and still recognize that some things could be better. That’s how aviation actually improves.

[phenix]

Maybe have a look at that Westjet operation, if you want to talk about competence. How's that reduction bid looking now? Why was the operation "right sized" in the first place? How about the "we are overstaffed since the merger" crap that some still believe? Pilots will bitch about this or that, but I have a hard time believing that Ex Sunwing pilots don't know the Westjet SOP's. That hasn't been my experience.

Maybe that was simply the plan.

Before Sunwing, WestJet used to have 2 high seasons (summer and winter) and 2 low seasons (spring and fall). With Sunwing, we have a very high winter, a high summer, and 2 low shoulder seasons. My guess is that Onex is not interested in keeping it that way, and is not interested in staffing accordingly to the highest common denominator. There is a much better yield in being slightly overstaffed in fall/spring, and slightly understaffed in summer/winter, than trying to properly staff for 25% of the year and be overstaffed for the remaining 75%. Onex is in the money business, they don’t want growth, they want yield, and they don’t necessarily want or need to fulfill all the flying demand available.

If I had a crystal ball, I would say that WestJet executives have been told to deal with it this winter, that next winter WestJet will give up some of the Sunwing flying which has the lowest yield, and that we will gradually fall back into the previous model. WestJet has not hired anyone in 1.5 year, and pilots leaving are not being replaced. There is no hiring planned for 2026 so all we know is that we will have even less pilots next winter. Clearly Onex is comfortable with the current situation and wants to keep reducing the staffing. No one is panicking.

Some people thought that WestJet would adapt to Sunwing and probably think that the top brass are a bunch of idiots for not doing that, but the line of action has been fairly consistent so far.

[safetyfirst123]

Maybe have a look at that Westjet operation, if you want to talk about competence. How's that reduction bid looking now? Why was the operation "right sized" in the first place? How about the "we are overstaffed since the merger" crap that some still believe? Pilots will bitch about this or that, but I have a hard time believing that Ex Sunwing pilots don't know the Westjet SOP's. That hasn't been my experience.

Maybe that was simply the plan.

Before Sunwing, WestJet used to have 2 high seasons (summer and winter) and 2 low seasons (spring and fall). With Sunwing, we have a very high winter, a high summer, and 2 low shoulder seasons. My guess is that Onex is not interested in keeping it that way, and is not interested in staffing accordingly to the highest common denominator. There is a much better yield in being slightly overstaffed in fall/spring, and slightly understaffed in summer/winter, than trying to properly staff for 25% of the year and be overstaffed for the remaining 75%. Onex is in the money business, they don’t want growth, they want yield, and they don’t necessarily want or need to fulfill all the flying demand available.

If I had a crystal ball, I would say that WestJet executives have been told to deal with it this winter, that next winter WestJet will give up some of the Sunwing flying which has the lowest yield, and that we will gradually fall back into the previous model. WestJet has not hired anyone in 1.5 year, and pilots leaving are not being replaced. There is no hiring planned for 2026 so all we know is that we will have even less pilots next winter. Clearly Onex is comfortable with the current situation and wants to keep reducing the staffing. No one is panicking.

Some people thought that WestJet would adapt to Sunwing and probably think that the top brass are a bunch of idiots for not doing that, but the line of action has been fairly consistent so far.

You could be right, but with all the European flying planned this summer on the 737, I'll be curious to see how it all unfolds. I'm also curious about the Sunwing yields, I would argue that they are higher and flights down south are full. It depends on the accounting. Sunwing didn't make money flying the passengers, but the yields were on the tour operator side, and definitely on the hotel side with high markups.

What I know is that Air Canada and Porter are cancelling a lot of flights just as Westjet is, but they are cancelling domestic and US flights which are easy to recover from. Westjet is cancelling a lot of Sunwing flights, and the cost of doing that is massively higher due to hotel costs for all inclusive passengers. I guess it depends on who is paying those bills, if it's the airline, the tour operator or the hotels. What I can expect is that Sunwing Vacation's market share will likely decrease significantly with this merger at this rate.

[ads-b]

Not knowing standard calls is unprofessional and against company procedures. It’s weak.

I find the westjet procedures easier. Checklists for everything. ACARs is great. Briefings almost identical. Very positive training. Better support from anything in the office.

If the pilot beside you is spouting off how great their last company was, just ask when they’re resigning. That should shut them up.

Move forward, not backwards.

[safetyfirst123]

Not knowing standard calls is unprofessional and against company procedures. It’s weak.

I find the westjet procedures easier. Checklists for everything. ACARs is great. Briefings almost identical. Very positive training. Better support from anything in the office.

If the pilot beside you is spouting off how great their last company was, just ask when they’re resigning. That should shut them up.

Move forward, not backwards.

Agreed!

[Turboprops]

Maybe have a look at that Westjet operation, if you want to talk about competence. How's that reduction bid looking now? Why was the operation "right sized" in the first place? How about the "we are overstaffed since the merger" crap that some still believe? Pilots will bitch about this or that, but I have a hard time believing that Ex Sunwing pilots don't know the Westjet SOP's. That hasn't been my experience.

Unfortunately, my experience with Sunwing pilots resembles what Shark describes. Missed standard callouts, making up callouts, them encroaching into my flows. I flew with a Sunwing captain who missed every single standard callout on an ILS approach down to 500 feet. Every one. No apologies or explanations. Incompetence or laziness, both are inexcusable. I've been paired in the sim with former Sunwing pilots and I always feel like I'm the one fighting to keep the ship upright. You got to keep your left seat. Congratulations. Why don't you learn the SOP's?
Sunwing airlines doesn't exist anymore. Time to move on. I don't want to hear you complaining all flight long that the arbitrated ruling was unfair, or hear about how awesome Sunwing was, or how miserable you are at WestJet. Grow up.

Run another bid to actually right size YYZ, work towards having less pilots commuting which would have more pilots available to pick up overtime and reduce cancellations, let us use the scratchpad and enable radalt callouts that come with the 737

Just curious, if Westjet goes under tomorrow and you’ll have to go to AC at BOTL, are you going to learn their SOP or tell them “the right way” to fly a 737?
The amount of ex sunwing guys saying “ya i get it this is the new normal” but refuse to learn Westjet SOP is mind boggling.
Be a professional pilot, show me where “can you extend the FAF”, or closing the disco on a RNP short gate before being cleared the approach is in the FOM? Or you’re not going to learn it until Westjet does everything you want?
Did my recurrent PPC with a senior ex sunwing CA, god he didn’t even memorize the response to before start checklist, are you going to justify this behaviour as well?

[eyebrow737]

Just curious, if Westjet goes under tomorrow and you’ll have to go to AC at BOTL, are you going to learn their SOP or tell them “the right way” to fly a 737?
The amount of ex sunwing guys saying “ya i get it this is the new normal” but refuse to learn Westjet SOP is mind boggling.
Be a professional pilot, show me where “can you extend the FAF”, or closing the disco on a RNP short gate before being cleared the approach is in the FOM? Or you’re not going to learn it until Westjet does everything you want?
Did my recurrent PPC with a senior ex sunwing CA, god he didn’t even memorize the response to before start checklist, are you going to justify this behaviour as well?

This isn’t about arrogance from “Sunwing pilots”. That’s a lazy story you keep telling yourself because it avoids the actual issue.
every pilot worth a damn knows there is only one correct way to fly a 737. The company SOPs. Full stop. Nobody here is arguing otherwise, no matter how hard you try to pretend they are.

what is being questioned is your habit of mistaking inexperience for authority. When something can’t be found in the FOM and the fallback is “that’s how we’ve always done it”, that’s not professionalism. That’s tribal habit filling gaps in understanding.

The giveaway is how personal you make this. Pilots who’ve moved between operators, fleets, and manuals don’t react like this. They’ve seen good SOPs, bad ones, and messy ones. They comply with what exists while still recognizing when a system could use a cleanup.

what you’re showing instead is early-career certainty. Loud, judgemental, and brittle. It’s insecurity wearing the costume of confidence, and it treats any critique as defiance. Aviation has a way of sanding that down over time.

Until then, less chest-thumping, more listening. Real authority never needs to announce itself

[Handover]

Just curious, if Westjet goes under tomorrow and you’ll have to go to AC at BOTL, are you going to learn their SOP or tell them “the right way” to fly a 737?
The amount of ex sunwing guys saying “ya i get it this is the new normal” but refuse to learn Westjet SOP is mind boggling.
Be a professional pilot, show me where “can you extend the FAF”, or closing the disco on a RNP short gate before being cleared the approach is in the FOM? Or you’re not going to learn it until Westjet does everything you want?
Did my recurrent PPC with a senior ex sunwing CA, god he didn’t even memorize the response to before start checklist, are you going to justify this behaviour as well?

There’s a tendency here to conflate two separate problems and then respond to the louder one. If a pilot isn’t aligned with the SOP, that’s a straightforward cockpit correction. It happens every day, on every fleet, everywhere. You fix it, you fly on, and the system absorbs it the way it’s designed to.

What’s less productive is treating those moments as evidence of something larger, especially when the “larger” issue is assumed rather than observed. Moving between operators creates habits that don’t always map cleanly on day one. That isn’t defiance and it isn’t philosophy. It’s just adaptation lag, and it resolves itself quickly when people are allowed to recalibrate without being put on trial.

The dynamic shifts when the response becomes public, narrative-driven, or moralized. At that point the focus isn’t on aligning technique, it’s on asserting interpretation. That may feel like protecting standards, but it usually has the opposite effect. Crews get guarded, communication tightens, and perfectly ordinary corrections start carrying unnecessary weight.

Over time, most pilots learn that standards don’t need amplification. They work best when applied quietly, consistently, and without added meaning. As the person above, stop making this all tribal. You aren't fixing the problem, if anything you are making it worse.

[Turboprops]

Just curious, if Westjet goes under tomorrow and you’ll have to go to AC at BOTL, are you going to learn their SOP or tell them “the right way” to fly a 737?
The amount of ex sunwing guys saying “ya i get it this is the new normal” but refuse to learn Westjet SOP is mind boggling.
Be a professional pilot, show me where “can you extend the FAF”, or closing the disco on a RNP short gate before being cleared the approach is in the FOM? Or you’re not going to learn it until Westjet does everything you want?
Did my recurrent PPC with a senior ex sunwing CA, god he didn’t even memorize the response to before start checklist, are you going to justify this behaviour as well?

They comply with what exists while still recognizing when a system could use a cleanup.

This is the problem, they’re not complying, imo intentionally. They don’t want to learn. At 2-2.5x my hourly rate, is it that hard to say a few things you don’t like? Send an email to the standards pilot if you really want things changed.
Just like you said, before a FOM revision comes out, comply with what we have

[safetyfirst123]

Unfortunately, my experience with Sunwing pilots resembles what Shark describes. Missed standard callouts, making up callouts, them encroaching into my flows. I flew with a Sunwing captain who missed every single standard callout on an ILS approach down to 500 feet. Every one. No apologies or explanations. Incompetence or laziness, both are inexcusable. I've been paired in the sim with former Sunwing pilots and I always feel like I'm the one fighting to keep the ship upright. You got to keep your left seat. Congratulations. Why don't you learn the SOP's?
Sunwing airlines doesn't exist anymore. Time to move on. I don't want to hear you complaining all flight long that the arbitrated ruling was unfair, or hear about how awesome Sunwing was, or how miserable you are at WestJet. Grow up.

Run another bid to actually right size YYZ, work towards having less pilots commuting which would have more pilots available to pick up overtime and reduce cancellations, let us use the scratchpad and enable radalt callouts that come with the 737

Just curious, if Westjet goes under tomorrow and you’ll have to go to AC at BOTL, are you going to learn their SOP or tell them “the right way” to fly a 737?
The amount of ex sunwing guys saying “ya i get it this is the new normal” but refuse to learn Westjet SOP is mind boggling.
Be a professional pilot, show me where “can you extend the FAF”, or closing the disco on a RNP short gate before being cleared the approach is in the FOM? Or you’re not going to learn it until Westjet does everything you want?
Did my recurrent PPC with a senior ex sunwing CA, god he didn’t even memorize the response to before start checklist, are you going to justify this behaviour as well?

Just curious, where did you get any idea that we shouldn't learn the SOP's and follow them? I do, that's my job. Where did I justify what you're suggesting? And if any pilot is deviating from SOP's, that needs to be addressed full stop.

[cdnavater]

Just curious, if Westjet goes under tomorrow and you’ll have to go to AC at BOTL, are you going to learn their SOP or tell them “the right way” to fly a 737?
The amount of ex sunwing guys saying “ya i get it this is the new normal” but refuse to learn Westjet SOP is mind boggling.
Be a professional pilot, show me where “can you extend the FAF”, or closing the disco on a RNP short gate before being cleared the approach is in the FOM? Or you’re not going to learn it until Westjet does everything you want?
Did my recurrent PPC with a senior ex sunwing CA, god he didn’t even memorize the response to before start checklist, are you going to justify this behaviour as well?

They comply with what exists while still recognizing when a system could use a cleanup.

This is the problem, they’re not complying, imo intentionally. They don’t want to learn. At 2-2.5x my hourly rate, is it that hard to say a few things you don’t like? Send an email to the standards pilot if you really want things changed.
Just like you said, before a FOM revision comes out, comply with what we have

I’m curious, the proper way to deal with this is, step one; point out in a polite way that the FOM prohibits the action, if in fact it does, you should sure.
Step two; if this fails to change the error, file an SMS report, I understand this is difficult as an FO but intentional noncompliance is a slippery slope, it sets the tone and frankly when there is intentional noncompliance, I have lost trust in that pilot to do there job.
Have you done this?

[Turboprops]

Run another bid to actually right size YYZ, work towards having less pilots commuting which would have more pilots available to pick up overtime and reduce cancellations, let us use the scratchpad and enable radalt callouts that come with the 737

Just curious, if Westjet goes under tomorrow and you’ll have to go to AC at BOTL, are you going to learn their SOP or tell them “the right way” to fly a 737?
The amount of ex sunwing guys saying “ya i get it this is the new normal” but refuse to learn Westjet SOP is mind boggling.
Be a professional pilot, show me where “can you extend the FAF”, or closing the disco on a RNP short gate before being cleared the approach is in the FOM? Or you’re not going to learn it until Westjet does everything you want?
Did my recurrent PPC with a senior ex sunwing CA, god he didn’t even memorize the response to before start checklist, are you going to justify this behaviour as well?

Just curious, where did you get any idea that we shouldn't learn the SOP's and follow them? I do, that's my job. Where did I justify what you're suggesting? And if any pilot is deviating from SOP's, that needs to be addressed full stop.

Ok good! Don’t get me wrong, I come from a place with what I can tell, very similar SOP to sunwing. But when I came to Westjet, I bitched about it for maybe 30 min and moved on.
Let’s go back to bitching about the company’s incompetence then

[Handover]

]

This is the problem, they’re not complying, imo intentionally. They don’t want to learn. At 2-2.5x my hourly rate, is it that hard to say a few things you don’t like? Send an email to the standards pilot if you really want things changed.
Just like you said, before a FOM revision comes out, comply with what we have

Who’s “they”? Some captains, all captains, all Sunwing pilots? It matters, because once things get broad-brushed, the real issue usually gets missed.

I’ve flown with plenty of WestJet pilots still using techniques from SOPs that have been phased out. When asked, there’s often no reference in the FOM, just “this is what we do here.” That’s not standards, that’s habit. And it happens on both sides.

We’re bringing a lot of pilots into the operation in a short period of time. That always stretches things. Some people settle in quickly, others take longer. Right now it’s just more obvious because of the volume and the sheer numbers. Everyone’s trying to make a tough transition work.

on the same note, looking at your background, you’re a very new pilot. no one picks up new SOPs overnight. it usually takes a few hundred hours before it really clicks, and it can be harder when the aircraft type stays the same because old muscle memory gets in the way. We’ve all been there.

Would you want your early mistakes picked apart in public? Probably not. To a more experienced eye, low-time pilots can look pretty rough for a while. That’s normal. Standards come with time, not intent.

I’ve genuinely enjoyed flying with about 99 percent of the WestJet pilots so far. Good people, professional, easy to work with. I’ve messed things up. I’ve seen very experienced pilots mess things up too. The job is to correct it, support each other, and move on.

People who feel supported are safer, more relaxed, and better to fly with. That’s basic CRM, and it’s worth holding onto.

“Leadership is practiced not so much in words as in attitude and in actions.”
Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Turboprops]

]

This is the problem, they’re not complying, imo intentionally. They don’t want to learn. At 2-2.5x my hourly rate, is it that hard to say a few things you don’t like? Send an email to the standards pilot if you really want things changed.
Just like you said, before a FOM revision comes out, comply with what we have

Who’s “they”? Some captains, all captains, all Sunwing pilots? It matters, because once things get broad-brushed, the real issue usually gets missed.

I’ve flown with plenty of WestJet pilots still using techniques from SOPs that have been phased out. When asked, there’s often no reference in the FOM, just “this is what we do here.” That’s not standards, that’s habit. And it happens on both sides.

We’re bringing a lot of pilots into the operation in a short period of time. That always stretches things. Some people settle in quickly, others take longer. Right now it’s just more obvious because of the volume and the sheer numbers. Everyone’s trying to make a tough transition work.

on the same note, looking at your background, you’re a very new pilot. no one picks up new SOPs overnight. it usually takes a few hundred hours before it really clicks, and it can be harder when the aircraft type stays the same because old muscle memory gets in the way. We’ve all been there.

Would you want your early mistakes picked apart in public? Probably not. To a more experienced eye, low-time pilots can look pretty rough for a while. That’s normal. Standards come with time, not intent.

I’ve genuinely enjoyed flying with about 99 percent of the WestJet pilots so far. Good people, professional, easy to work with. I’ve messed things up. I’ve seen very experienced pilots mess things up too. The job is to correct it, support each other, and move on.

People who feel supported are safer, more relaxed, and better to fly with. That’s basic CRM, and it’s worth holding onto.

“Leadership is practiced not so much in words as in attitude and in actions.”
Dwight D. Eisenhower

You guys still don’t get the point? It’s not what mistakes is being made, it’s the attitude.

If you correct my SOP mistake, and my response is “ah ya I forgot this is how you guys do it, you know back in xxx airline we did this, it made way more sense than this SOP from the 90s” 10 times throughout a pairing.
Yea sure blast me on public forum for my lack of professionalism, I deserve it.
When someone points out my SOP mistakes, I’ve always just said “yup my bad, thanks for letting me know.”

To answer your question, it’s honestly been about half of the ex sunwing captains I fly with have this attitude, not just one or two.

So you guys are picking on my experience now? Are you saying because you have 5x my hours therefore SOP mistakes don’t matter because “oh it’s just SOP, I know how to fly this airplane”? I’ve also heard this way too many times.
I’ll tell you this, if my SOP was as bad as some of the ex sunwing captains, I would not pass the initial training.

[rudder]

In the fall of 2013, a new Manager Flight Standards at SWG implemented a revised SOP that was (mostly) the Boeing SOP for the 737. Lots of pushback and complaints but eventually it settled in. Changes that were identified by line pilots as deficient were reviewed and if necessary - modified.

Pilots hate change. They want to stick with procedures they can do in their sleep. But any pilot that has changed aircraft or changed employer has had to learn something new and do things differently than they were accustomed to.

Cooperate = graduate. No instructor, training Captain, or line pilot wants to hear “This is how we used to do it at XXX….”. Having said that, any standards dept that embraces the concept of continuous improvement/best practices will constantly evaluate its own procedures.

[safetyfirst123]

What's ironic is the non-compliance by Westjet pilots themselves with the SOP's, or as mentioned above, things being done in certain ways but not how it's written because "that's how we do it here".

[Handover]

You guys still don’t get the point? It’s not what mistakes is being made, it’s the attitude.

If you correct my SOP mistake, and my response is “ah ya I forgot this is how you guys do it, you know back in xxx airline we did this, it made way more sense than this SOP from the 90s” 10 times throughout a pairing.
Yea sure blast me on public forum for my lack of professionalism, I deserve it.
When someone points out my SOP mistakes, I’ve always just said “yup my bad, thanks for letting me know.”

To answer your question, it’s honestly been about half of the ex sunwing captains I fly with have this attitude, not just one or two.

So you guys are picking on my experience now? Are you saying because you have 5x my hours therefore SOP mistakes don’t matter because “oh it’s just SOP, I know how to fly this airplane”? I’ve also heard this way too many times.
I’ll tell you this, if my SOP was as bad as some of the ex sunwing captains, I would not pass the initial training.

I hear what you’re saying about attitude, and you’re right about one thing, it matters. A lot. Nobody enjoys being corrected only to hear a running commentary about how another airline did it better.

But let’s keep this grounded. You’re talking about some captains, not all, and probably not half. Even if it *feels* that way right now. Aviation has always had people who take longer to adapt. They either come around or they wash out quietly. The system always sorts itself out.

What won’t help is taking that frustration to a very public forum and aiming it at an entire group. That kind of framing doesn’t improve SOP compliance or cockpit culture. It just makes you look hardened and judgemental, even if your underlying point is reasonable.

If someone gives you pushback in the seat, deal with it there. Calmly. Professionally. If it crosses a line, there are channels for that. Public score-keeping doesn’t change behaviour, it just burns your own credibility.

[Blackdog0301]

What's ironic is the non-compliance by Westjet pilots themselves with the SOP's, or as mentioned above, things being done in certain ways but not how it's written because "that's how we do it here".

Like what? You can't make a claim like this without giving an example.