Who Wants to Fly WJ

[FL030]

Wtf is this real?

https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriat ... _how_much/

[Canadaflyer46]

Wtf is this real?

https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriat ... _how_much/

Sadly it is. They went with the smallest seat pitch currently used anywhere in the world, 28 inches. 4 inches less than current config. And 1 inch less than RyanAir.
Due to the huge backlash from staff and customers they’re ‘pausing’ the reconfiguration at the current 20 or so aircraft while they decide what to do next.
Onex combined with the current leadership has truly destroyed whatever was left of the WestJet brand. It’s incredibly depressing.

[flieslikeachicken]

Wtf is this real?

https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriat ... _how_much/

Definitely an exaggeration. The "parents" are not sitting back all the way in their seats. Definitely tight, but not *that* tight.

WestJet's tightest seat is 28" pitch whereas if you look at WizzAir, they go as low as 27".

[JBI]

Maybe you Ex Sunwing pilots should learn the WJ SOP’s. It’s not that complicated regardless of your views. You guys and gals look very simple for the lack of competence with the WJ operation. All of you bitch and complain all day long about how bad the SOP’s are, but no problem accepting the pay cheque.

This has not been my experience at all. Every ex-SWG I've flown with has been really sharp and keen on learning the SOPs. I'm sure, like all groups, there are a few duds, but there's been no issues with SOPs.

[safetyfirst123]

Definitely tight, but not *that* tight.

WestJet's tightest seat is 28" pitch whereas if you look at WizzAir, they go as low as 27".

I had a look on Aerolopa and 28" is the lowest including with WizzAir. Westjet is bottom of the barrel with legroom, which is bad considering the stage lengths Westjet uses its 737's on. It's *that* tight. Imagine doing a trans-Atlantic flight or a Hawaii especially at night in this configuration? It's unacceptable.

[cdnavater]

Definitely tight, but not *that* tight.

WestJet's tightest seat is 28" pitch whereas if you look at WizzAir, they go as low as 27".

I had a look on Aerolopa and 28" is the lowest including with WizzAir. Westjet is bottom of the barrel with legroom, which is bad considering the stage lengths Westjet uses its 737's on. It's *that* tight. Imagine doing a trans-Atlantic flight or a Hawaii especially at night in this configuration? It's unacceptable.

Generally speaking, I would only do that once if I wasn’t aware before of how bad it is, this should translate into less and less future bookings unless the fares match the service!
The truth will be how full the premium seats are, I’ve been on several Flair flights and as a reciprocal traveler, I’m always in the emergency row or front, no one seems willing to pay for the extra leg room. They are very strict on who sits there, it’s pretty funny, everyone in those rows has to present their boarding pass to prove they paid for it, if not, back to your middle seat! Rightfully so, though, I was sitting there by myself and all of the sudden I had someone beside me waving to their partner to come up, the FAs were on top of it though, imagine if you paid for that and then someone just sits there with no regard for that.
As a big guy, I’m not looking forward to experiencing this new configuration!

[pelmet]

Maybe you Ex Sunwing pilots should learn the WJ SOP’s. It’s not that complicated regardless of your views. You guys and gals look very simple for the lack of competence with the WJ operation. All of you bitch and complain all day long about how bad the SOP’s are, but no problem accepting the pay cheque.

Are Sunwing's SOP's better?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Maybe you Ex Sunwing pilots should learn the WJ SOP’s. It’s not that complicated regardless of your views. You guys and gals look very simple for the lack of competence with the WJ operation. All of you bitch and complain all day long about how bad the SOP’s are, but no problem accepting the pay cheque.

Are Sunwing's SOP's better?

Irrelevant question. You work for an employer and you fly the books that they have.

[Shark]

Maybe you Ex Sunwing pilots should learn the WJ SOP’s. It’s not that complicated regardless of your views. You guys and gals look very simple for the lack of competence with the WJ operation. All of you bitch and complain all day long about how bad the SOP’s are, but no problem accepting the pay cheque.

Are Sunwing's SOP's better?

Possible. But I do not know. I did not work for Sunwing nor do I have any experience with their operation. There could be some improvements to the WJ SOP’s from the now defunct Sunwing airline. Sounds like they did takeoff in VNAV which makes sense and the plane is capable. But since it is not approved in our manuals, I do not use that procedure.

If there are any changes that comes from the Sunwing operation, I will learn it and follow the company’s directive.
Without Bitching

[munzil]

Possible. But I do not know. I did not work for Sunwing nor do I have any experience with their operation. There could be some improvements to the WJ SOP’s from the now defunct Sunwing airline. Sounds like they did takeoff in VNAV which makes sense and the plane is capable. But since it is not approved in our manuals, I do not use that procedure.

If there are any changes that comes from the Sunwing operation, I will learn it and follow the company’s directive.
Without Bitching

Sunwing SOPs are largely Boeing SOPs. It’s the third Boeing operator I’ve flown with that aligns closely with the manufacturer’s procedures, the same baseline used by the majority of the world’s airlines operating the type.

Which suggests that the ~$230B aircraft manufacturer that designed, tested, certified, and supports the airplane might have a reasonable handle on how it’s intended to be operated.

Compared to a much smaller airline layering bespoke rules on top, often to solve internal standardization issues rather than aircraft limitations.

If changes come from integrating another operation, fine. But pretending manufacturer-approved procedures are some fringe experiment feels slightly misplaced.

[Shark]

Possible. But I do not know. I did not work for Sunwing nor do I have any experience with their operation. There could be some improvements to the WJ SOP’s from the now defunct Sunwing airline. Sounds like they did takeoff in VNAV which makes sense and the plane is capable. But since it is not approved in our manuals, I do not use that procedure.

If there are any changes that comes from the Sunwing operation, I will learn it and follow the company’s directive.
Without Bitching

Sunwing SOPs are largely Boeing SOPs. It’s the third Boeing operator I’ve flown with that aligns closely with the manufacturer’s procedures, the same baseline used by the majority of the world’s airlines operating the type.

Which suggests that the ~$230B aircraft manufacturer that designed, tested, certified, and supports the airplane might have a reasonable handle on how it’s intended to be operated.

Compared to a much smaller airline layering bespoke rules on top, often to solve internal standardization issues rather than aircraft limitations.

If changes come from integrating another operation, fine. But pretending manufacturer-approved procedures are some fringe experiment feels slightly misplaced.

Ok. Then make the requests to our training department for the proper Boeing SOP’s. But until then, learn our stuff like the rest of us did. It’s not a dick measuring contest. Just do your job the proper way until changes are made.

For all experience you guys bring to the table, the majority I have seen are not backing it up.

[munzil]

Ok. Then make the requests to our training department for the proper Boeing SOP’s. But until then, learn our stuff like the rest of us did. It’s not a dick measuring contest. Just do your job the proper way until changes are made.

For all experience you guys bring to the table, the majority I have seen are not backing it up.

So you keep saying. Repeatedly.
For context, I’ve been flying for nearly 35 years across roughly 15 types. In that time, exactly one pilot comes to mind who flatly refused to learn company SOPs because “the last place did it better.” One. Out of thousands.

Which suggests this is less a systemic issue and more a mountain being built enthusiastically out of a molehill, with a healthy side of exaggeration.

If you genuinely encounter someone refusing to follow SOPs, the process is straightforward: address it through the proper channels. That’s what they exist for.

You also mentioned attitude. It’s worth considering whether, with relatively limited time in the industry and an apparent abundance of friction around you, the issue might sit a little closer to home.
At the very least, the tone being highlighted here seems to surface rather frequently in these discussions.

[Shark]

So you keep saying. Repeatedly.
For context, I’ve been flying for nearly 35 years across roughly 15 types. In that time, exactly one pilot comes to mind who flatly refused to learn company SOPs because “the last place did it better.” One. Out of thousands.

Which suggests this is less a systemic issue and more a mountain being built enthusiastically out of a molehill, with a healthy side of exaggeration.

If you genuinely encounter someone refusing to follow SOPs, the process is straightforward: address it through the proper channels. That’s what they exist for.

You also mentioned attitude. It’s worth considering whether, with relatively limited time in the industry and an apparent abundance of friction around you, the issue might sit a little closer to home.
At the very least, the tone being highlighted here seems to surface rather frequently in these discussions.
[/quote]

And you just proved my point.

A lot of us here at WJ have good experience regardless of the seat we are in. Been doing this for a while now too. Guess myself and the other posters complaining on this form are just out to lunch.

[munzil]

And you just proved my point.

A lot of us here at WJ have good experience regardless of the seat we are in. Been doing this for a while now too. Guess myself and the other posters complaining on this form are just out to lunch.

What point? No one is disputing that WestJet has plenty of experienced pilots.

Some of the best crews I’ve flown with recently have been WestJet pilots: easy-going, technically solid, strong CRM. I’ve never suggested otherwise.

What is being pushed back on is the repeated, blanket characterization of an entire group of pilots based on anecdote and forum venting. That’s not an experience issue, it’s a professionalism issue.

Disagreement over SOP philosophy is normal. Publicly painting whole cohorts with the same brush, over and over, is where it starts to look less like operational concern and more like noise.

[Daniel Cooper]

Do you think management will backtrack the seat pitch decision after the public backlash or will their egos prevent them from admitting that they made a mistake?

[philaviate]

Do you think management will backtrack the seat pitch decision after the public backlash or will their egos prevent them from admitting that they made a mistake?

I can't think of many backtracks. I can think of lots of stubborn decisions held by businesses over the years.
Plus, what have they got to lose? It's not like we have a choice of flying with others in most cases.

Canada won't improve until the government gets out of the way and we have competition. In this industry and many others.

[julcancro]

As predicted , with as much bad PR and damage to their brand Westjet cancels their density initiative. A stupid failed live experiment that now has done immense damage to their brand. I wonder who the board of directors is gonna fire , most like Alexis Von hoensbroech

[safetyfirst123]

As predicted , with as much bad PR and damage to their brand Westjet cancels their density initiative. A stupid failed live experiment that now has done immense damage to their brand. I wonder who the board of directors is gonna fire , most like Alexis Von hoensbroech

Except the board of directors is supposed to provide the direction for the brand, and the CEO executes it. If Westjet had stuck with its plans to go more premium as it was prior to COVID, it would be in a much better position. Now that Delta, Korean, and AF/KLM have bought stakes in Westjet, this failed experiment might be the impetus that drives real change. Perhaps Ben Smith will come back to Canada and drive the change that this company needs to shine again.

[boeingboy]

Personally - I think they should just pull out 1 row and go back to standard seating in the back...keeping extended comfort and premium, but it's anyone's guess as to where they go from here. I do think that the seats that don't recline will stay that way and probably should.

The bigger problem is they were only going to do 42 airplanes to begin with - and have now stopped at 22...but that raises huge issues with seating when aircraft are swapped - which happens quite a bit, and it makes for a confusing and disconnected experience for passengers. You now have 4 or 5 differently configured airplanes which is a shitty situation. They need to reconfigure the entire fleet....which I fear they wont do.

[julcancro]

This reaks of the sean durfy fiasco with the sabre reservatation roll out failure. Ceo will be sacked

[Dry Guy]

If he survived the mechanics strike he'll survive this debacle too.

[Jean-Pierre]

WestJet accounted for 66 of 114 total disruptive passenger reports last year. AC had 10 and Porter had 6. It's like Carnival cruise line of the sky.

[TFTMB heavy]

WestJet accounted for 66 of 114 total disruptive passenger reports last year. AC had 10 and Porter had 6. It's like Carnival cruise line of the sky.

To be fair the article states that YYC is the worse Cristy for disruptive pax, makes sense WS takes the cake.

[goldeneagle]

WestJet accounted for 66 of 114 total disruptive passenger reports last year. AC had 10 and Porter had 6. It's like Carnival cruise line of the sky.

To be fair the article states that YYC is the worse Cristy for disruptive pax, makes sense WS takes the cake.

It would be more interesting to see how those numbers map as compared to total numbers of passengers carried, which is a better metric than just simply the total.

[cdnavater]

WestJet accounted for 66 of 114 total disruptive passenger reports last year. AC had 10 and Porter had 6. It's like Carnival cruise line of the sky.

To be fair the article states that YYC is the worse Cristy for disruptive pax, makes sense WS takes the cake.

It would be more interesting to see how those numbers map as compared to total numbers of passengers carried, which is a better metric than just simply the total.

What is it you are thinking, AC had 10 and what carried less passengers to get that number?
What I would like to know if these are only domestic reported incidents or total for the company wide operations?