Leave TS for AC?

[EGW]

Currently a 330 FO at TS, and although junior still holding 48-72hr layovers in Europe and flying 3-5 trips a month. The lifestyle here is great, and the new contract makes it hard to leave. I had applied to AC a while back and now its time to make a decision. Leaving would mean taking a pay cut and decrease in QOL, in exchange for job security long term. I would have over 35 years left at AC, I know people say its a no brainer, but if I had a crystal ball to see if TS will be around in the future I certainly would stay... Does anyone regret leaving where they were at to go to AC?

[flying4dollars]

Currently a 330 FO at TS, and although junior still holding 48-72hr layovers in Europe and flying 3-5 trips a month. The lifestyle here is great, and the new contract makes it hard to leave. I had applied to AC a while back and now its time to make a decision. Leaving would mean taking a pay cut and decrease in QOL, in exchange for job security long term. I would have over 35 years left at AC, I know people say its a no brainer, but if I had a crystal ball to see if TS will be around in the future I certainly would stay... Does anyone regret leaving where they were at to go to AC?

If you have over 35 years at AC, you're in your 20's. I don't think Transat will quietly fade away into the night any time soon but like you said, there is no guarantee. You will take a QoL hit at AC for sure, though keep in mind the next round of negots (which is set to open in September this year) will be focusing on that very issue and likely will yield improvements, though maybe not drastic. At AC you will have a much better overall compensation and benefits package. There is also a lot more variety here with respect to fleets and flying.

As long as you're prepared to take the QoL hit for a few years, with 35+ years left in your career yes, it's a good move. Don't confuse that statement with me insinuating it would be a bad move if you don't come here. You'll have a decent amount of time to enjoy the perks being senior gets you here. I am a 3 year junior NB captain and it's not as bad as some make it out to be (personal opinion only). I do not for a moment regret leaving my previous airline to come here, though I do miss the camaraderie. At AC, there is basically none, but the job security really helps me sleep at night and plan for the future. Best of luck!

[flieslikeachicken]

Currently a 330 FO at TS, and although junior still holding 48-72hr layovers in Europe and flying 3-5 trips a month. The lifestyle here is great, and the new contract makes it hard to leave. I had applied to AC a while back and now its time to make a decision. Leaving would mean taking a pay cut and decrease in QOL, in exchange for job security long term. I would have over 35 years left at AC, I know people say its a no brainer, but if I had a crystal ball to see if TS will be around in the future I certainly would stay... Does anyone regret leaving where they were at to go to AC?

Transat was hit hard during COVID, but their comeback plan and execution is showing itself to be effective. Do not think that Air Canada is going to have better long term job security. The government of Canada is run by the Quebecois and will continue to be for quite some time. For fifty-four of the past seventy-five years, Canada has been lead by someone who holds a Quebecois riding. The Canadian government will not let a Quebec based national airline go under.

[Daniel Cooper]

I would go for the job security alone.

[jpilot77]

I’ve flown with FOs that were captains at Transat that came over in their late 30s early 40s. And a lot of Transat FOs. Yes the lifestyle at Transat is better but some of the FOs mentioned they were more tired at Transat cause their departures for Europe were always late at night. I don’t know of many pilots that left Air Canada for Transat (although I’m sure it’s happened).

[350driver]

Currently a 330 FO at TS, and although junior still holding 48-72hr layovers in Europe and flying 3-5 trips a month. The lifestyle here is great, and the new contract makes it hard to leave. I had applied to AC a while back and now its time to make a decision. Leaving would mean taking a pay cut and decrease in QOL, in exchange for job security long term. I would have over 35 years left at AC, I know people say its a no brainer, but if I had a crystal ball to see if TS will be around in the future I certainly would stay... Does anyone regret leaving where they were at to go to AC?

If you have over 35 years at AC, you're in your 20's. I don't think Transat will quietly fade away into the night any time soon but like you said, there is no guarantee. You will take a QoL hit at AC for sure, though keep in mind the next round of negots (which is set to open in September this year) will be focusing on that very issue and likely will yield improvements, though maybe not drastic. At AC you will have a much better overall compensation and benefits package. There is also a lot more variety here with respect to fleets and flying.

As long as you're prepared to take the QoL hit for a few years, with 35+ years left in your career yes, it's a good move. Don't confuse that statement with me insinuating it would be a bad move if you don't come here. You'll have a decent amount of time to enjoy the perks being senior gets you here. I am a 3 year junior NB captain and it's not as bad as some make it out to be (personal opinion only). I do not for a moment regret leaving my previous airline to come here, though I do miss the camaraderie. At AC, there is basically none, but the job security really helps me sleep at night and plan for the future. Best of luck!

Genuine question. Would you have been as happy / satisfied with your move if you had to wait 7 years to be a nb captain?

I think you were among the tail end of that narrative of guys holding command within 18 months and being trained up by year 3.

Now it’s likely 5 years to hold, and 6 years to be in the seat

I agree that with 35 years regardless, it’s a no brainer.

Question - kids ? Wife ? Or single? If single even more of a no brainer.

I would only stay at Transat and prioritize lifestyle today if you’re okay to eventually leave for EK if it goes tits up. Otherwise it’s not even a thought process.

Does anyone regret leaving where they’re at for ac?

Ya probably every single new hire lol. I remember in my PIT class the head instructor asked how many were excited to be there, and very few hands went up. There’s just something about the first few years that’s not fun. And they know it.

[flying4dollars]

Currently a 330 FO at TS, and although junior still holding 48-72hr layovers in Europe and flying 3-5 trips a month. The lifestyle here is great, and the new contract makes it hard to leave. I had applied to AC a while back and now its time to make a decision. Leaving would mean taking a pay cut and decrease in QOL, in exchange for job security long term. I would have over 35 years left at AC, I know people say its a no brainer, but if I had a crystal ball to see if TS will be around in the future I certainly would stay... Does anyone regret leaving where they were at to go to AC?

If you have over 35 years at AC, you're in your 20's. I don't think Transat will quietly fade away into the night any time soon but like you said, there is no guarantee. You will take a QoL hit at AC for sure, though keep in mind the next round of negots (which is set to open in September this year) will be focusing on that very issue and likely will yield improvements, though maybe not drastic. At AC you will have a much better overall compensation and benefits package. There is also a lot more variety here with respect to fleets and flying.

As long as you're prepared to take the QoL hit for a few years, with 35+ years left in your career yes, it's a good move. Don't confuse that statement with me insinuating it would be a bad move if you don't come here. You'll have a decent amount of time to enjoy the perks being senior gets you here. I am a 3 year junior NB captain and it's not as bad as some make it out to be (personal opinion only). I do not for a moment regret leaving my previous airline to come here, though I do miss the camaraderie. At AC, there is basically none, but the job security really helps me sleep at night and plan for the future. Best of luck!

Genuine question. Would you have been as happy / satisfied with your move if you had to wait 7 years to be a nb captain?

I think you were among the tail end of that narrative of guys holding command within 18 months and being trained up by year 3.

Now it’s likely 5 years to hold, and 6 years to be in the seat

I agree that with 35 years regardless, it’s a no brainer.

Question - kids ? Wife ? Or single? If single even more of a no brainer.

I would only stay at Transat and prioritize lifestyle today if you’re okay to eventually leave for EK if it goes tits up. Otherwise it’s not even a thought process.

Does anyone regret leaving where they’re at for ac?

Ya probably every single new hire lol. I remember in my PIT class the head instructor asked how many were excited to be there, and very few hands went up. There’s just something about the first few years that’s not fun. And they know it.

Honestly its a great question. Westjet was actually my goal coming out of flight school but shifted to AC a number of years later. I was perfectly content where I was before but given my mid life age, I wanted some security and AC was at the beginning of the mass hiring spree. I knew getting in when I did would mean holding a base of my choice right away and holding command within a year. Would I have still come given the wait? Yeah I would have. As I have no kids, moving if needed wouldn't have been a problem either. So for my circumstances, yes.

But for a young guy you're right, there's always other options outside this country, however not everyone is cut out for certain parts of the world. I've seen it first hand as a former expat kid.

I used to hear the advice from AC guys back in the day when I was working my way up about how the seniority number is everything. I see how it plays into QoL here and generally agree. Passing up seniority numbers means leaving not just money on the table (and a significant amount), but other intangibles too, including pension.

I'm not saying AC is the be all end all but the OP did mention he applied, which expresses his desire to want to be here. This is the best advice I can personally give now and I'm sure others can offer different or even a better perspective than I.

[350driver]

If you have over 35 years at AC, you're in your 20's. I don't think Transat will quietly fade away into the night any time soon but like you said, there is no guarantee. You will take a QoL hit at AC for sure, though keep in mind the next round of negots (which is set to open in September this year) will be focusing on that very issue and likely will yield improvements, though maybe not drastic. At AC you will have a much better overall compensation and benefits package. There is also a lot more variety here with respect to fleets and flying.

As long as you're prepared to take the QoL hit for a few years, with 35+ years left in your career yes, it's a good move. Don't confuse that statement with me insinuating it would be a bad move if you don't come here. You'll have a decent amount of time to enjoy the perks being senior gets you here. I am a 3 year junior NB captain and it's not as bad as some make it out to be (personal opinion only). I do not for a moment regret leaving my previous airline to come here, though I do miss the camaraderie. At AC, there is basically none, but the job security really helps me sleep at night and plan for the future. Best of luck!

Genuine question. Would you have been as happy / satisfied with your move if you had to wait 7 years to be a nb captain?

I think you were among the tail end of that narrative of guys holding command within 18 months and being trained up by year 3.

Now it’s likely 5 years to hold, and 6 years to be in the seat

I agree that with 35 years regardless, it’s a no brainer.

Question - kids ? Wife ? Or single? If single even more of a no brainer.

I would only stay at Transat and prioritize lifestyle today if you’re okay to eventually leave for EK if it goes tits up. Otherwise it’s not even a thought process.

Does anyone regret leaving where they’re at for ac?

Ya probably every single new hire lol. I remember in my PIT class the head instructor asked how many were excited to be there, and very few hands went up. There’s just something about the first few years that’s not fun. And they know it.

Honestly its a great question. Westjet was actually my goal coming out of flight school but shifted to AC a number of years later. I was perfectly content where I was before but given my mid life age, I wanted some security and AC was at the beginning of the mass hiring spree. I knew getting in when I did would mean holding a base of my choice right away and holding command within a year. Would I have still come given the wait? Yeah I would have. As I have no kids, moving if needed wouldn't have been a problem either. So for my circumstances, yes.

But for a young guy you're right, there's always other options outside this country, however not everyone is cut out for certain parts of the world. I've seen it first hand as a former expat kid.

I used to hear the advice from AC guys back in the day when I was working my way up about how the seniority number is everything. I see how it plays into QoL here and generally agree. Passing up seniority numbers means leaving not just money on the table (and a significant amount), but other intangibles too, including pension.

I'm not saying AC is the be all end all but the OP did mention he applied, which expresses his desire to want to be here. This is the best advice I can personally give now and I'm sure others can offer different or even a better perspective than I.

All makes sense. To be fair, everyone who joined in 2024 were being told that they'll be back in ITC and doing a command course within 9-12 months as well. I can tell you there's probably 250-300 very experienced guys they got in the 5000's that are all one foot out of the door right now. These are people they hired with the intent of getting them their commands quickly (like the 2017-2018 hiring spree) and (the 2022 hiring spree). AC hired them because they know they need their experience to bid for the seat.

If this rate keeps up at the company, they may need to hire more than the 290 they anticipated this year. And they won't be experienced hires in comparison if these guys leave. Judging by the new hire bios, if the experienced folk leave, your next set of upgrades will be CPL graduates of 2022/2023. Okay maybe not some of the jazz pilots who graduated in 2020 lol. Still. Mainly kids.

Does our interview process really hire captains? Doubt it. If it was that good, why are so many getting washed out of their command training? Sad.

Got a lot of friends that are V's across 737/220/320, seriously some of the stories are actually stupid. But hey, the hiring board thought they were great!

Anyway thanks for the response.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Genuine question. Would you have been as happy / satisfied with your move if you had to wait 7 years to be a nb captain?

I think you were among the tail end of that narrative of guys holding command within 18 months and being trained up by year 3.

Now it’s likely 5 years to hold, and 6 years to be in the seat

I agree that with 35 years regardless, it’s a no brainer.

Question - kids ? Wife ? Or single? If single even more of a no brainer.

I would only stay at Transat and prioritize lifestyle today if you’re okay to eventually leave for EK if it goes tits up. Otherwise it’s not even a thought process.

Does anyone regret leaving where they’re at for ac?

Ya probably every single new hire lol. I remember in my PIT class the head instructor asked how many were excited to be there, and very few hands went up. There’s just something about the first few years that’s not fun. And they know it.

Honestly its a great question. Westjet was actually my goal coming out of flight school but shifted to AC a number of years later. I was perfectly content where I was before but given my mid life age, I wanted some security and AC was at the beginning of the mass hiring spree. I knew getting in when I did would mean holding a base of my choice right away and holding command within a year. Would I have still come given the wait? Yeah I would have. As I have no kids, moving if needed wouldn't have been a problem either. So for my circumstances, yes.

But for a young guy you're right, there's always other options outside this country, however not everyone is cut out for certain parts of the world. I've seen it first hand as a former expat kid.

I used to hear the advice from AC guys back in the day when I was working my way up about how the seniority number is everything. I see how it plays into QoL here and generally agree. Passing up seniority numbers means leaving not just money on the table (and a significant amount), but other intangibles too, including pension.

I'm not saying AC is the be all end all but the OP did mention he applied, which expresses his desire to want to be here. This is the best advice I can personally give now and I'm sure others can offer different or even a better perspective than I.

All makes sense. To be fair, everyone who joined in 2024 were being told that they'll be back in ITC and doing a command course within 9-12 months as well. I can tell you there's probably 250-300 very experienced guys they got in the 5000's that are all one foot out of the door right now. These are people they hired with the intent of getting them their commands quickly (like the 2017-2018 hiring spree) and (the 2022 hiring spree). AC hired them because they know they need their experience to bid for the seat.

If this rate keeps up at the company, they may need to hire more than the 290 they anticipated this year. And they won't be experienced hires in comparison if these guys leave. Judging by the new hire bios, if the experienced folk leave, your next set of upgrades will be CPL graduates of 2022/2023. Okay maybe not some of the jazz pilots who graduated in 2020 lol. Still. Mainly kids.

Does our interview process really hire captains? Doubt it. If it was that good, why are so many getting washed out of their command training? Sad.

Got a lot of friends that are V's across 737/220/320, seriously some of the stories are actually stupid. But hey, the hiring board thought they were great!

Anyway thanks for the response.

They can leave anytime, we've all flown with some old grumpy captain who kept singing the same old song ''I wish i could leave this place''

buddy, you're 1 email away, i can even find the email for you. If those guys are so experienced, why did they fell again for the carrot ?

the CA is public, the seniority list is easy to get, upgrade junior numbers also... if they couldn't figure out there wouldn't be a an upgrade within a year, maybe they should return to their old job.

[safetyfirst123]

Where are these so called experienced pilots going to go? One or two might go overseas, but let's be honest, 99% will stay and simply be grumpy.

[Stu Pidasso]

As the old joke goes, this advice is worth what you paid for it.

AC has a unique corporate culture that is a holdover from the Crown Corporation days, " we're all equal." A large segment of the company has a jealous hatred towards the Pilots. There isn't another Airline on the planet that has FA's delusional enough to think they should be paid the same as the Pilots. Or, Service Directors (lead FA) who believe they are 2nd in command of the Jet, over the FO.

Plus, the place is a woke experiment gone bad.

If you can hold your nose to the nonsense, it is still (unfortunately) the best flying job in the country.

[330heavy]

Currently a 330 FO at TS, and although junior still holding 48-72hr layovers in Europe and flying 3-5 trips a month. The lifestyle here is great, and the new contract makes it hard to leave. I had applied to AC a while back and now its time to make a decision. Leaving would mean taking a pay cut and decrease in QOL, in exchange for job security long term. I would have over 35 years left at AC, I know people say its a no brainer, but if I had a crystal ball to see if TS will be around in the future I certainly would stay... Does anyone regret leaving where they were at to go to AC?

Would hate to anyone go, especially if you're who I think you are. However, one must do what they think is best for them. There's some very valid points above. Personally, I see Air Transat staying around for a long time. Things are moving in the right direction. But this is aviation, and anything can happen.

The difference is AC is more a guarantee of job security and overall compensation but you work for it. Here we have the lifestyle, less work/mth and I would say better commradery. I know some at AC are unhappy but are there to put the time in, and I know of others who left here and regretted, and some living the dream at AC.

What you have to ask yourself, what flying do you prefer and what's more important? Upgrade times are about similar it seems, maybe a year or 2 more here currently. Both choices have their rewards, setbacks and differences. You know what you're getting at Transat, so best to ask anyone you know personally at AC their thoughts there. Wish you the best in your choice, and IMO you can't go wrong with either choice.

[MD11]

If you're happy with the lifestyle/compensation and don't see yourself getting tired of TS's network, then stay. You're already on a WB and Airbus with destinations that are manageable with fatigue and enjoyable through repetition. AC will always have the biggest network, fleet variety, resources available, strong reward programs and stability. I envy a lot of things at AC but at the end of the day QofL, base and being home as much as possible are what matters to me. I rather vacation on days off than layover with a crew I may not share the same personality with.

The one common theme I hear at AC is that unless you're a somewhat senior WB F/O, you will end up working a lot. Also keep in mind, you'll likely end up on a narrowbody for a while and do a lot of less exciting destinations/layovers across Canada like YXE, YQT, YEG (no offence to anyone). Would you be content with that? You won't be doing a Brisbane layover anytime soon. Not sure if you've experienced reserve but at AC the WB list goes slowly and reserve can last a while. In the end, go with your gut. Both are great options but AC will always leverage pilots with aircraft types, benefits, pay etc. over good lifestyle and family. Flying gets old fast so find the job that will suit your lifestyle the best long term.

[MontrealCanucks]

As the old joke goes, this advice is worth what you paid for it.

AC has a unique corporate culture that is a holdover from the Crown Corporation days, " we're all equal." A large segment of the company has a jealous hatred towards the Pilots. There isn't another Airline on the planet that has FA's delusional enough to think they should be paid the same as the Pilots. Or, Service Directors (lead FA) who believe they are 2nd in command of the Jet, over the FO.

Plus, the place is a woke experiment gone bad.

If you can hold your nose to the nonsense, it is still (unfortunately) the best flying job in the country.

Is it delusional if the AC pilot group ratifies a 10 yrs contract at 84% that pays pilots less than FAs?

I mean you reap what you sow with that kind of negotiating.

Now you got a low cost leisure airlines with better quality of life with an actual debate to leave for AC.

Embarrassing.

[A310Heavy]

I've noticed it is a bit of a Air Canada’s past time to worry about the Flight Attendants. Is that projection for their contract?!

And son, no one has 35 years left as a pilot in this industry...watch any podcast on AI and where it is heading...

[350driver]

Honestly its a great question. Westjet was actually my goal coming out of flight school but shifted to AC a number of years later. I was perfectly content where I was before but given my mid life age, I wanted some security and AC was at the beginning of the mass hiring spree. I knew getting in when I did would mean holding a base of my choice right away and holding command within a year. Would I have still come given the wait? Yeah I would have. As I have no kids, moving if needed wouldn't have been a problem either. So for my circumstances, yes.

But for a young guy you're right, there's always other options outside this country, however not everyone is cut out for certain parts of the world. I've seen it first hand as a former expat kid.

I used to hear the advice from AC guys back in the day when I was working my way up about how the seniority number is everything. I see how it plays into QoL here and generally agree. Passing up seniority numbers means leaving not just money on the table (and a significant amount), but other intangibles too, including pension.

I'm not saying AC is the be all end all but the OP did mention he applied, which expresses his desire to want to be here. This is the best advice I can personally give now and I'm sure others can offer different or even a better perspective than I.

All makes sense. To be fair, everyone who joined in 2024 were being told that they'll be back in ITC and doing a command course within 9-12 months as well. I can tell you there's probably 250-300 very experienced guys they got in the 5000's that are all one foot out of the door right now. These are people they hired with the intent of getting them their commands quickly (like the 2017-2018 hiring spree) and (the 2022 hiring spree). AC hired them because they know they need their experience to bid for the seat.

If this rate keeps up at the company, they may need to hire more than the 290 they anticipated this year. And they won't be experienced hires in comparison if these guys leave. Judging by the new hire bios, if the experienced folk leave, your next set of upgrades will be CPL graduates of 2022/2023. Okay maybe not some of the jazz pilots who graduated in 2020 lol. Still. Mainly kids.

Does our interview process really hire captains? Doubt it. If it was that good, why are so many getting washed out of their command training? Sad.

Got a lot of friends that are V's across 737/220/320, seriously some of the stories are actually stupid. But hey, the hiring board thought they were great!

Anyway thanks for the response.

They can leave anytime, we've all flown with some old grumpy captain who kept singing the same old song ''I wish i could leave this place''

buddy, you're 1 email away, i can even find the email for you. If those guys are so experienced, why did they fell again for the carrot ?

the CA is public, the seniority list is easy to get, upgrade junior numbers also... if they couldn't figure out there wouldn't be a an upgrade within a year, maybe they should return to their old job.

I generally understand where this response comes from.

But it also shows the type of personalities the OP is likely going to come across if he does make the move over. Sure there are some great guys at AC too, don't get me wrong, but the majority aren't people you want to hangout with on a layover. Because they will say shit like this... quit if you hate it. Very narrow minded.

The widebody is different. Some great gems do exist there. Generally our widebody crews are happier.

If the only reason you're coming to AC is job security, you have to be okay with letting go of the job satisfaction that TS currently gives you. I promise you, no body found their 'dream' at AC once they settle in. Unless they're riding the high of graduating flight school in 2021, and being a 220 captain in 2025. I can see that person 'living' their dream. For 99% it isn't so.

[Babar350]

All makes sense. To be fair, everyone who joined in 2024 were being told that they'll be back in ITC and doing a command course within 9-12 months as well. I can tell you there's probably 250-300 very experienced guys they got in the 5000's that are all one foot out of the door right now. These are people they hired with the intent of getting them their commands quickly (like the 2017-2018 hiring spree) and (the 2022 hiring spree). AC hired them because they know they need their experience to bid for the seat.

If this rate keeps up at the company, they may need to hire more than the 290 they anticipated this year. And they won't be experienced hires in comparison if these guys leave. Judging by the new hire bios, if the experienced folk leave, your next set of upgrades will be CPL graduates of 2022/2023. Okay maybe not some of the jazz pilots who graduated in 2020 lol. Still. Mainly kids.

Does our interview process really hire captains? Doubt it. If it was that good, why are so many getting washed out of their command training? Sad.

Got a lot of friends that are V's across 737/220/320, seriously some of the stories are actually stupid. But hey, the hiring board thought they were great!

Anyway thanks for the response.

They can leave anytime, we've all flown with some old grumpy captain who kept singing the same old song ''I wish i could leave this place''

buddy, you're 1 email away, i can even find the email for you. If those guys are so experienced, why did they fell again for the carrot ?

the CA is public, the seniority list is easy to get, upgrade junior numbers also... if they couldn't figure out there wouldn't be a an upgrade within a year, maybe they should return to their old job.

Quit if you hate it.

We have the same guy saying the same thing as well...

[350driver]

Where are these so called experienced pilots going to go? One or two might go overseas, but let's be honest, 99% will stay and simply be grumpy.

Corporate, overseas, porter, Jetlines 2.0?

I'd wager that there's more than just one or two going overseas. Canada is losing record people in the mid 30's to early 40's. Most of them skilled workers. I have a hard time seeing how people will just stay in YYZ, not get a 300k/yr job fairly quickly, and expect to buildout their Canadian dreams. Unless they're 22 and have time.

The only way YYZ/YVR works is if you get that command ASAP. Otherwise you're looking at commuting for lifestyle and affordability, and if you're going to commute, is Air Sprint at 160k/yr on a 8 on 6 off based in YYC such a bad position anymore?

I think the wave of resignations will increase if this keeps up. It's not the old days where people slum it out for the greater good long term. The fact is people need a lot of money in this country to build what took a lot less in the past. So for that reason, career expectancies have to be faster, or people start looking for options, even if to their detriment, it means leaving Canada, or leaving Air canada/Wj.

Got a few friends that recruit for ETH and EK, there's been a massive uptick in resumes from Canadian's the last 2 years. Guess only 6-7% of their applications used to be from Canadians. Now it's 30% of their applications. Make of that what you will, but it's showing you people are starting to consider their options to leave. Considering most aren't 'qualified' to leave a King Air job to go to those carriers, one only starts wondering who's left? AC/WJ(Sunwing)/Flair?

I don't think it's the flying4dollars that are applying to go to EK, they made it out like bandits with their 2022 hire. So it's likely 4800+ at AC on their way out, and 1500+ at WJ.

Judging by the line status changes on every CMSC bid, resignations are definitely a hotter topic now than they used to be pre 2020.

Judging by how the kids joining AC today mainly flew a metro, or a dash 8, or king air before joining, it's starting to become evident where the chips are falling in terms of who's got applications to leave.

But then again, like one of my classy colleagues said earlier, he will find you the e-mail to resign if you don't like it. Somehow I think Canada's arrogance is about to run out in the next half decade.

EGW, this is what you're choosing to join if you want to leave TS. Good luck with your decision.

For what it's worth, I think an AC career for a 30-35 year old will still be fine. At least I'm happy and look forward to what's ahead.

[altiplano]

I understand Transat has better pay and lifestyle now? Why would you start over? Maybe pension and benefits? You have to weigh it out... I'd be hesitant to give up a number if you already have time in there...

If you do come, you just need a big bullshit filter and to learn to ignore most of what you come across.

I would suggest to come here with the sole goal of spending as little time at work as possible for as much money as possible. That's the key to happiness here IMO.

I like doing my job as well and safely as I can, but as infrequently as possible. After that I like going home and living my life with the people I love, can't get out of there fast enough. Means to an end, that's it.

[350driver]

I understand Transat has better pay and lifestyle now? Why would you start over? Maybe pension and benefits? You have to weigh it out... I'd be hesitant to give up a number if you already have time in there...

If you do come, you just need a big bullshit filter and to learn to ignore most of what you come across.

I would suggest to come here with the sole goal of spending as little time at work as possible for as much money as possible. That's the key to happiness here IMO.

I like doing my job as well and safely as I can, but as infrequently as possible. After that I like going home and living my life with the people I love, can't get out of there fast enough. Means to an end, that's it.

Altiplano said it exactly how I meant to say it. Don't come here for 'culture' or to be 'happy'

Per his words, he can't wait to get out of here fast enough to go and spend time with where he's found his happiness.

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

I still can't get over junior Air Transat pilots concerned over the shit Quality of Life at AC.

How did the MEC at Air Canada present such a shit contract that it has come to this?!

[PostmasterGeneral]

I still can't get over junior Air Transat pilots concerned over the shit Quality of Life at AC.

How did the MEC at Air Canada present such a shit contract that it has come to this?!

Presented? Have you been under a rock? The contract was ratified over a year ago.

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

I still can't get over junior Air Transat pilots concerned over the shit Quality of Life at AC.

How did the MEC at Air Canada present such a shit contract that it has come to this?!

Presented? Have you been under a rock? The contract was ratified over a year ago.

Lol...so what was the first step after this MEC capitulated?

It presented the "deal".

A deal so good that it is making Air Transat pilots question if they should leave for AC...LMAO

[thepoors]

Where are these so called experienced pilots going to go? One or two might go overseas, but let's be honest, 99% will stay and simply be grumpy.

Corporate, overseas, porter, Jetlines 2.0?

I'd wager that there's more than just one or two going overseas. Canada is losing record people in the mid 30's to early 40's. Most of them skilled workers. I have a hard time seeing how people will just stay in YYZ, not get a 300k/yr job fairly quickly, and expect to buildout their Canadian dreams. Unless they're 22 and have time.

The only way YYZ/YVR works is if you get that command ASAP. Otherwise you're looking at commuting for lifestyle and affordability, and if you're going to commute, is Air Sprint at 160k/yr on a 8 on 6 off based in YYC such a bad position anymore?

I think the wave of resignations will increase if this keeps up. It's not the old days where people slum it out for the greater good long term. The fact is people need a lot of money in this country to build what took a lot less in the past. So for that reason, career expectancies have to be faster, or people start looking for options, even if to their detriment, it means leaving Canada, or leaving Air canada/Wj.

Got a few friends that recruit for ETH and EK, there's been a massive uptick in resumes from Canadian's the last 2 years. Guess only 6-7% of their applications used to be from Canadians. Now it's 30% of their applications. Make of that what you will, but it's showing you people are starting to consider their options to leave. Considering most aren't 'qualified' to leave a King Air job to go to those carriers, one only starts wondering who's left? AC/WJ(Sunwing)/Flair?

I don't think it's the flying4dollars that are applying to go to EK, they made it out like bandits with their 2022 hire. So it's likely 4800+ at AC on their way out, and 1500+ at WJ.

Judging by the line status changes on every CMSC bid, resignations are definitely a hotter topic now than they used to be pre 2020.

Judging by how the kids joining AC today mainly flew a metro, or a dash 8, or king air before joining, it's starting to become evident where the chips are falling in terms of who's got applications to leave.

But then again, like one of my classy colleagues said earlier, he will find you the e-mail to resign if you don't like it. Somehow I think Canada's arrogance is about to run out in the next half decade.

EGW, this is what you're choosing to join if you want to leave TS. Good luck with your decision.

For what it's worth, I think an AC career for a 30-35 year old will still be fine. At least I'm happy and look forward to what's ahead.

I'm on year 3 and very seriously considering leaving. I get the first few years are supposed to suck but it's becoming harder and harder to see things improving much even a decade down the line. On the NB QOL is abysmal even for senior guys. Almost everyone I talk to is miserable, tired, defeated. Those who aren't have intentionally buried their heads in denial. WB is slightly better but the constant time zone changes and associated fatigue take its toll. Yes pension, yes job security but you're living a horrible existence for how long to "have it good" when you're 65...if you're still in any kind of state to enjoy it.

The really astonishing thing to me has been how AC, as a whole, treats it's employees with complete and utter disdain. At no other company I have ever worked for (including some questionable ones up north) have ever I felt as disrespected and derided here as here. You are worse than nothing, you are the enemy. To be exploited, lied to, intimidated, and subjugated into compliance. It's like they get joy out of constantly violating the contract and finding backdoor ways to @#$! you over. How people do 30yrs under this working environment I don't know. It's toxic and disgusting.

ALPA, as we know, talks a big game about support and advocacy. However when things get escalated it usually boils down to "we don't agree with the company but it is what it is". So be a good boy and we'll get em in the next round. The grievance system is broken and they have zero power or leverage. There also seems to be very little desire to actually hold the company accountable for anything. I don't see the next round of negotiations going anywhere positive.

The days of nobody leaves AC are well and truly gone. At this point, I'm surprised the numbers aren't higher (I think a lot of guys still struggle getting over the image that this is the "peak" of Canadian aviation). I wouldn't in good conscience recommend this company to anyone.

[flying4dollars]

Where are these so called experienced pilots going to go? One or two might go overseas, but let's be honest, 99% will stay and simply be grumpy.

Corporate, overseas, porter, Jetlines 2.0?

I'd wager that there's more than just one or two going overseas. Canada is losing record people in the mid 30's to early 40's. Most of them skilled workers. I have a hard time seeing how people will just stay in YYZ, not get a 300k/yr job fairly quickly, and expect to buildout their Canadian dreams. Unless they're 22 and have time.

The only way YYZ/YVR works is if you get that command ASAP. Otherwise you're looking at commuting for lifestyle and affordability, and if you're going to commute, is Air Sprint at 160k/yr on a 8 on 6 off based in YYC such a bad position anymore?

I think the wave of resignations will increase if this keeps up. It's not the old days where people slum it out for the greater good long term. The fact is people need a lot of money in this country to build what took a lot less in the past. So for that reason, career expectancies have to be faster, or people start looking for options, even if to their detriment, it means leaving Canada, or leaving Air canada/Wj.

Got a few friends that recruit for ETH and EK, there's been a massive uptick in resumes from Canadian's the last 2 years. Guess only 6-7% of their applications used to be from Canadians. Now it's 30% of their applications. Make of that what you will, but it's showing you people are starting to consider their options to leave. Considering most aren't 'qualified' to leave a King Air job to go to those carriers, one only starts wondering who's left? AC/WJ(Sunwing)/Flair?

I don't think it's the flying4dollars that are applying to go to EK, they made it out like bandits with their 2022 hire. So it's likely 4800+ at AC on their way out, and 1500+ at WJ.

Judging by the line status changes on every CMSC bid, resignations are definitely a hotter topic now than they used to be pre 2020.

Judging by how the kids joining AC today mainly flew a metro, or a dash 8, or king air before joining, it's starting to become evident where the chips are falling in terms of who's got applications to leave.

But then again, like one of my classy colleagues said earlier, he will find you the e-mail to resign if you don't like it. Somehow I think Canada's arrogance is about to run out in the next half decade.

EGW, this is what you're choosing to join if you want to leave TS. Good luck with your decision.

For what it's worth, I think an AC career for a 30-35 year old will still be fine. At least I'm happy and look forward to what's ahead.

The really astonishing thing to me has been how AC, as a whole, treats it's employees with complete and utter disdain. At no other company I have ever worked for (including some questionable ones up north) have ever I felt as disrespected and derided here as here. You are worse than nothing, you are the enemy. To be exploited, lied to, intimidated, and subjugated into compliance. It's like they get joy out of constantly violating the contract and finding backdoor ways to @#$! you over. How people do 30yrs under this working environment I don't know. It's toxic and disgusting.


The days of nobody leaves AC are well and truly gone. At this point, I'm surprised the numbers aren't higher (I think a lot of guys still struggle getting over the image that this is the "peak" of Canadian aviation). I wouldn't in good conscience recommend this company to anyone.

I actually very much agree with these sentiment. Maybe it's just my personality but even after flying for 17 years, I still enjoy going to work and I love flying. I'm happy with my choice to come here and it works for me because I make it work. Crew sked and MLO's have treated me just fine so far. Junior reserve hasn't been terrible and while I am a commuter, the new contract rules have often bought me more time at home and less time in my crashpad. I like the airplane I fly and the pilots I fly with. No camaraderie like where I was before but like altiplano said, I look forward to going home and spending my time with my people and the balance is just fine with me. I came here for the paycheque (quick upgrade) and the job security and got both. It only goes up from here (I hope).

Sidebar, 350driver is right in that I'm not going to EK at my age and time in my life, but I most definitely would if I was early 30's or 20's. That being said I had an interview at EY on the 320 a few days after being given an offer at AC. If it was DEC, maybe I'd have done it. It wasn't and I chose the safe bet.