2026 PIT FLEET AC

[yycflyguy]

One thing that nobody has factored into their retirement plans is the pension Share Trust has been settled and the first offers for packages are expected this year.

How many will be offered and what the package looks like are yet to be determined but it will accelerate those senior guys that want a little financial incentive to hang up the spurs. Theoretically you could see a couple hundred guys go based on this alone.

[350driver]

Not to mention that we are indeed growing our airline by 30% by way of 90 more airplanes by the end of the decade, which is 2030.

35 220’s plus 5 more ordered
5 more 737’s are showing up on lease this year
30 XLR’s between this year and 2028
14 787-10 starting 2027 and 4 more after 2028

That’s 93 tails right there.

I also heard a rumour the majority of the airbuses are not going anywhere and that 14-15 are being reconfigured as jetz machines instead. Maybe 4 or 5 being retired but that’s it.

If in fact the 18 rouge tails don’t get replaced that’s 93-18 =75 tails net growth by 2030.

We run about 22-23 per plane. 1725 new positions by 2030. 500-700 retirements by 2030. Command is currently 1083 numbers away from the last guy on property.

Assume 290 hired this year which is the number. That means 1725-290 =1,435 between 2027-2030. Which is around 475 average per year from 2027. It reflects exactly per what we’ve been told by way of memos. 2026 slower hire, 2027 it ramps up again.

Final number by 2030 from today’s 5700 suggests AC will be a 7000 pilot airline by 2030. This is all apparently before quality of life fixes which haven’t even been hired for or implemented yet.

That essentially changes every single forecast on this thread.

As I have said, I am optimistic about my future at AC. But the first few years were definitely some of the hardest years.

I still think someone 35+ has to think about the longevity of joining 5700+ on a list that on average will only move about 3000 numbers for the span of your career (about 100/year average throughout your career). If junior 787 is in the 1700’s today, imagine that number sits about 25-30% higher by 2030 which is 2100. So unless we grow beyond our current plans, someone with a 30 year career likely ends around 2700-2400. That’s currently someone with 10 years of service. But that will be you after 30 years. Big difference.

If we keep growing maybe that means you’ll only see those lucrative tails in the last 5-6 years of your career. Are you okay with that? Do you want to do training at 60? Are you even holding a medical at 60?

Lots of reason to be optimistic but there are some reality checks if you’re not 22. Keep in mind a large portion of 5700-4400 are all in their 20’s. Not all, but a large portion. They will hold those 777/787 spots for a while when you’re 60 and able to hold it, and they’re still 51-55. That will be one slow list for the quality of life movement in your last position. If you’re coming in at 35+ there’s a good chance you need to be okay with 737/320 for life if the left seat is what you’re going for.

That’s my assessment with the info we publicly have available today.

We are one tweet away from all of it imploding too lol

[Protonpilot]

One thing that nobody has factored into their retirement plans is the pension Share Trust has been settled and the first offers for packages are expected this year.

How many will be offered and what the package looks like are yet to be determined but it will accelerate those senior guys that want a little financial incentive to hang up the spurs. Theoretically you could see a couple hundred guys go based on this alone.

One of the bulletins put out by AC last year explained that in each round of the Share Trust packages, the payout would be 52 weeks wages.
That’s $400K for the very senior types who’ll make the cut.
Based on the money available, I’d be surprised if there were more than 40 packages for the pilot group in this first round of VSPs. I don’t think it’ll be a couple of hundred, unfortunately.

[thepoors]

Not to mention that we are indeed growing our airline by 30% by way of 90 more airplanes by the end of the decade, which is 2030.

35 220’s plus 5 more ordered
5 more 737’s are showing up on lease this year
30 XLR’s between this year and 2028
14 787-10 starting 2027 and 4 more after 2028

That’s 93 tails right there.

Just curious where you're getting the 35 A220s number? Order was 60 total with options for another 5. We are well into the 40s delivered. Last I heard there are 18 deliveries pending and that would be it.

Lots of reason to be optimistic but there are some reality checks if you’re not 22. Keep in mind a large portion of 5700-4400 are all in their 20’s. Not all, but a large portion. They will hold those 777/787 spots for a while when you’re 60 and able to hold it, and they’re still 51-55. That will be one slow list for the quality of life movement in your last position. If you’re coming in at 35+ there’s a good chance you need to be okay with 737/320 for life if the left seat is what you’re going for.

This is a critically important point. A lot of young people hired that will permanently be ahead of those who weren't so lucky. It's hard to predict where this airline will be 20-25 years from now, but I would be willing to wager that if your number is >5000 you will not see the left seat of a WB here.

[altiplano]

All the more reason to increase NB wages and reduce the delta with WB pay. More people are going to spend more time in NBs whether domestic on the max/xlr overseas - and that's no cake walk, small flight decks, no augment, no cappuccinos.

NB guys are the hardest working group in this airline by far. Most days, most legs...

787 FOs in many cases are working 1/3 less days, taking home more pay, and shouldering less responsibility than 320/737/220 CAs.

Increase core CA pay in the formula and reduce the heavy weighting on weight pay. Airplanes are only getting lighter anyway.

[yycflyguy]

One thing that nobody has factored into their retirement plans is the pension Share Trust has been settled and the first offers for packages are expected this year.

How many will be offered and what the package looks like are yet to be determined but it will accelerate those senior guys that want a little financial incentive to hang up the spurs. Theoretically you could see a couple hundred guys go based on this alone.

One of the bulletins put out by AC last year explained that in each round of the Share Trust packages, the payout would be 52 weeks wages.
That’s $400K for the very senior types who’ll make the cut.
Based on the money available, I’d be surprised if there were more than 40 packages for the pilot group in this first round of VSPs. I don’t think it’ll be a couple of hundred, unfortunately.

Thanks for that. Dunno why I had more packages in my head.

[thepoors]

All the more reason to increase NB wages and reduce the delta with WB pay. More people are going to spend more time in NBs whether domestic on the max/xlr overseas - and that's no cake walk, small flight decks, no augment, no cappuccinos.

NB guys are the hardest working group in this airline by far. Most days, most legs...

787 FOs in many cases are working 1/3 less days, taking home more pay, and shouldering less responsibility than 320/737/220 CAs.

Increase core CA pay in the formula and reduce the heavy weighting on weight pay. Airplanes are only getting lighter anyway.

I agree NB CA is a much harder job than WB FO. However, you also have to weigh this against the disparity in FO/CA pay. Having FOs making 1/3 of CA salary is a bad thing. As we know, the pay needs to be higher across the board.

[flying4dollars]

I also heard a rumour the majority of the airbuses are not going anywhere and that 14-15 are being reconfigured as jetz machines instead.

14-15 Jetz fins?! Or was that a typo for 4-5? I have not heard a rumor than included that many Jetz fins. If it were true, would this mean dedicated Jetz crews? I'd sign up for that

[altiplano]

All the more reason to increase NB wages and reduce the delta with WB pay. More people are going to spend more time in NBs whether domestic on the max/xlr overseas - and that's no cake walk, small flight decks, no augment, no cappuccinos.

NB guys are the hardest working group in this airline by far. Most days, most legs...

787 FOs in many cases are working 1/3 less days, taking home more pay, and shouldering less responsibility than 320/737/220 CAs.

Increase core CA pay in the formula and reduce the heavy weighting on weight pay. Airplanes are only getting lighter anyway.

I agree NB CA is a much harder job than WB FO. However, you also have to weigh this against the disparity in FO/CA pay. Having FOs making 1/3 of CA salary is a bad thing. As we know, the pay needs to be higher across the board.

FO pay is based on CA pay. Move CA pay up, FO pay rises with it. 66.5% is top FO pay. fix the formula lite years and you're good.

Again though, WB FOs shouldn't be pulling in more than 320 CAs and working 1/3 fewer days to do it. NB needs to get paid more and have scheduling fixed.

[350driver]

Not to mention that we are indeed growing our airline by 30% by way of 90 more airplanes by the end of the decade, which is 2030.

35 220’s plus 5 more ordered
5 more 737’s are showing up on lease this year
30 XLR’s between this year and 2028
14 787-10 starting 2027 and 4 more after 2028

That’s 93 tails right there.

Just curious where you're getting the 35 A220s number? Order was 60 total with options for another 5. We are well into the 40s delivered. Last I heard there are 18 deliveries pending and that would be it.

Lots of reason to be optimistic but there are some reality checks if you’re not 22. Keep in mind a large portion of 5700-4400 are all in their 20’s. Not all, but a large portion. They will hold those 777/787 spots for a while when you’re 60 and able to hold it, and they’re still 51-55. That will be one slow list for the quality of life movement in your last position. If you’re coming in at 35+ there’s a good chance you need to be okay with 737/320 for life if the left seat is what you’re going for.

This is a critically important point. A lot of young people hired that will permanently be ahead of those who weren't so lucky. It's hard to predict where this airline will be 20-25 years from now, but I would be willing to wager that if your number is >5000 you will not see the left seat of a WB here.

Hey thanks for the updated numbers. I just keep hearing by our VP of commercial on earnings calls and our COO's vimeo videos how 2026 is the year we welcome 35 new 220's. Didn't realize so many had already arrived. Do you know where they're getting 35 from?

Some interesting news came out of the fleet meeting with flight ops exec management today with the boys/gals in training.

Without divulging too many details, AC is aiming to have 7200-7300 on property by 2030. With 500 or so retirements per altiplano, that suggests about 1800 new hires.

Guess whoever claims to be an ac interviewer on these boards saying they're running 2 full classes indefinitely not too long ago knew something we all didn't.

Let's see how the bids go this year.

[350driver]

I also heard a rumour the majority of the airbuses are not going anywhere and that 14-15 are being reconfigured as jetz machines instead.

14-15 Jetz fins?! Or was that a typo for 4-5? I have not heard a rumor than included that many Jetz fins. If it were true, would this mean dedicated Jetz crews? I'd sign up for that

yea the number I keep hearing is 14-15 and its from various sources throughout flight ops. Could explain the lack of reductions on the airbus fleets and that new hires still got ROUGE 319 assignments as of a few days ago. Perhaps the crews are needed for the jetz work that's coming up? Let's see.

[350driver]

All the more reason to increase NB wages and reduce the delta with WB pay. More people are going to spend more time in NBs whether domestic on the max/xlr overseas - and that's no cake walk, small flight decks, no augment, no cappuccinos.

NB guys are the hardest working group in this airline by far. Most days, most legs...

787 FOs in many cases are working 1/3 less days, taking home more pay, and shouldering less responsibility than 320/737/220 CAs.

Increase core CA pay in the formula and reduce the heavy weighting on weight pay. Airplanes are only getting lighter anyway.

I agree NB CA is a much harder job than WB FO. However, you also have to weigh this against the disparity in FO/CA pay. Having FOs making 1/3 of CA salary is a bad thing. As we know, the pay needs to be higher across the board.

FO pay is based on CA pay. Move CA pay up, FO pay rises with it. 66.5% is top FO pay. fix the formula lite years and you're good.

Again though, WB FOs shouldn't be pulling in more than 320 CAs and working 1/3 fewer days to do it. NB needs to get paid more and have scheduling fixed.

Couldn't agree more. I do think the majority of people at AC have relied on fast promotions as a way to get into higher pay and improved life quality that more pay brings, so the rest of the contract has been somewhat left alone for the years like 2023-2026 where there's been virtually no movement for people who were told there would be when they were hired. Eventually the music will stop, and the contract we have will bite whoever didn't make the cut for the expansion wave as a means to make more money.

Again if you're hiring 22 year olds, I think there's nothing wrong with a 22 year old making 85-100k in the first year or two on what will be a beautiful career for them.

I remember as a 22 year old I was getting paid 30k a year to fly a 705 turbo prop. Mind you rent back then was also $1400 a month and cost of living wasn't what it is today. Still, no way 30k then is $85-100k today. The kids are way better off and they're getting in at ages and experience levels that just didn't happen during my paying-your-dues years.

[Dias]

Kudos to management if they got work for 15 Jetz. That's quite a coup.

[rudder]

Kudos to management if they got work for 15 Jetz. That's quite a coup.

Many of the 319’s are probably owned aircraft (no lease/no debt). Therefore, no meaningful financial consequence to low utilization rates. Perhaps AC commercial has a strategy to expand charter ops (typically associated with extended sits) using these low cost/no cost fins. Staffing can be flexible based on projected charter flying levels.

[thepoors]

Not to mention that we are indeed growing our airline by 30% by way of 90 more airplanes by the end of the decade, which is 2030.

35 220’s plus 5 more ordered
5 more 737’s are showing up on lease this year
30 XLR’s between this year and 2028
14 787-10 starting 2027 and 4 more after 2028

That’s 93 tails right there.

Just curious where you're getting the 35 A220s number? Order was 60 total with options for another 5. We are well into the 40s delivered. Last I heard there are 18 deliveries pending and that would be it.

Lots of reason to be optimistic but there are some reality checks if you’re not 22. Keep in mind a large portion of 5700-4400 are all in their 20’s. Not all, but a large portion. They will hold those 777/787 spots for a while when you’re 60 and able to hold it, and they’re still 51-55. That will be one slow list for the quality of life movement in your last position. If you’re coming in at 35+ there’s a good chance you need to be okay with 737/320 for life if the left seat is what you’re going for.

This is a critically important point. A lot of young people hired that will permanently be ahead of those who weren't so lucky. It's hard to predict where this airline will be 20-25 years from now, but I would be willing to wager that if your number is >5000 you will not see the left seat of a WB here.

Hey thanks for the updated numbers. I just keep hearing by our VP of commercial on earnings calls and our COO's vimeo videos how 2026 is the year we welcome 35 new 220's. Didn't realize so many had already arrived. Do you know where they're getting 35 from?

No idea. The only number I've heard for 2026 is 18.

[Sinner]

Kudos to management if they got work for 15 Jetz. That's quite a coup.

There is a long waiting list of US NHL teams for Jetz. Word has gotten out that we have the best product when it comes to NHL charters. A few years ago AC came very close to being the "Official Carrier of the NHL" and transporting all teams. They apparently had one of two hold outs which is why the deal fell apart. It's possible this could be in the works again. That would be enough flying for a large Jetz fleet.

[rudder]

Just curious where you're getting the 35 A220s number? Order was 60 total with options for another 5. We are well into the 40s delivered. Last I heard there are 18 deliveries pending and that would be it.



This is a critically important point. A lot of young people hired that will permanently be ahead of those who weren't so lucky. It's hard to predict where this airline will be 20-25 years from now, but I would be willing to wager that if your number is >5000 you will not see the left seat of a WB here.

Hey thanks for the updated numbers. I just keep hearing by our VP of commercial on earnings calls and our COO's vimeo videos how 2026 is the year we welcome 35 new 220's. Didn't realize so many had already arrived. Do you know where they're getting 35 from?

No idea. The only number I've heard for 2026 is 18.

The AC quarterly MD&A is the most reliable source for fleet projection as it is associated with a publicly traded company and therefore must meet reporting accuracy requirements.

Q3 2025 Page 14: 18 planned 220 deliveries in 2026. See also page 21.

https://content.presspage.com/uploads/3 ... .pdf?10000

Q4 2025 financial results and updated MD&A will be released on Feb 13.

[Donald]

Kudos to management if they got work for 15 Jetz. That's quite a coup.

There is a long waiting list of US NHL teams for Jetz. Word has gotten out that we have the best product when it comes to NHL charters. A few years ago AC came very close to being the "Official Carrier of the NHL" and transporting all teams. They apparently had one of two hold outs which is why the deal fell apart. It's possible this could be in the works again. That would be enough flying for a large Jetz fleet.

That would certainly piss off Trump.

[Dry Guy]

787 FOs in many cases are working 1/3 less days, taking home more pay, and shouldering less responsibility than 320/737/220 CAs.

It what scenarios are FOs making more than Captains?

[350driver]

Hey thanks for the updated numbers. I just keep hearing by our VP of commercial on earnings calls and our COO's vimeo videos how 2026 is the year we welcome 35 new 220's. Didn't realize so many had already arrived. Do you know where they're getting 35 from?

No idea. The only number I've heard for 2026 is 18.

The AC quarterly MD&A is the most reliable source for fleet projection as it is associated with a publicly traded company and therefore must meet reporting accuracy requirements.

Q3 2025 Page 14: 18 planned 220 deliveries in 2026. See also page 21.

https://content.presspage.com/uploads/3 ... .pdf?10000

Q4 2025 financial results and updated MD&A will be released on Feb 13.

Any idea if we are already staffed for those 18 tails? Or is that to be reflected in upcoming bids?

[flying4dollars]

787 FOs in many cases are working 1/3 less days, taking home more pay, and shouldering less responsibility than 320/737/220 CAs.

It what scenarios are FOs making more than Captains?

Year 12 widebody instructor FO doing VO vs a year 3 narrowbody captain on junior reserve at MBG.

[altiplano]

787 FOs in many cases are working 1/3 less days, taking home more pay, and shouldering less responsibility than 320/737/220 CAs.

It what scenarios are FOs making more than Captains?

Year 12 widebody instructor FO doing VO vs a year 3 narrowbody captain on junior reserve at MBG.

Here's an example.
Year 12 777 FO including overseas pay = $310/hr
Year 12 220 CA = $330/hr

$20/hr difference.

The 777 FO works 9-12 days/month.
The 220 CA works 16 days/month.

1 juicy extra trip per year at double time let's say a 30 hour Asia or Australia trip? That equates to about an extra $20/hour averaged over a 900 hour year completely eliminating the pay difference. Now you do an extra trip every few months? 3 or 4 per year? (Because they have the opportunity and time with efficient productive flying and schedules that the NB pilot doesn't have.) Now with OT that WB FO is still working fewer days, with less responsibility, but earning $50K more than the NB CA.

So things need to change. The NB pilot needs an efficient schedule so they could have the same opportunity if inclined to pick up premium. 95% of the position working maximum days is unacceptable.

Fact is that NB is being sent more overseas also, they are getting bigger, they are increasingly diverse in their scope of operations.

Mileage and weight pay in formula already factors the additional productivity of WB aircraft, but why should the hourly component of NB CA pay formula be less that WBs?

Take a look at the Delta pay table. You want to get paid like Delta, right?

12 year 350 FO $330/hr
12 year 220 CA $375/hr
12 year 321 CA $405/hr

$45-$75/hr difference.

Not to mention their proper trip and duty pay guarantees and scheduling that ensure they work a reasonable schedule.

[flying4dollars]

It what scenarios are FOs making more than Captains?

Year 12 widebody instructor FO doing VO vs a year 3 narrowbody captain on junior reserve at MBG.

So things need to change. The NB pilot needs an efficient schedule so they could have the same opportunity if inclined to pick up premium. 95% of the position working maximum days is unacceptable.

Fact is that NB is being sent more overseas also, they are getting bigger, they are increasingly diverse in their scope of operations.

This

[30westpirate]

OT is more rare on the WB side simply due to the limited daily flights. Also being junior WB and getting OT, quite rare. Simply doesn’t get down the list.

Hours on the WB aren’t that great, I’m confident in saying that some month NB CA’s are making more than WB CA’s due to low block hours.

[Dry Guy]

I don't think we should be comparing overtime to straight time.