What will Air Canada pilots do with their $0 bonus?

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

I can't think of any pilot group in recent history that has been forced to arbitration for "single digit" increases

Those are just the facts.

Some serious scaredy-cats out there. Surprised the company offered anything with this mentality.

[newlygrounded]

I can't think of any pilot group in recent history that has been forced to arbitration for "single digit" increases

Those are just the facts.

Some serious scaredy-cats out there. Surprised the company offered anything with this mentality.

How are pilots different from mechanics, railroad workers, public sector workers, etc?

[CaptDukeNukem]

I can't think of any pilot group in recent history that has been forced to arbitration for "single digit" increases

Those are just the facts.

Some serious scaredy-cats out there. Surprised the company offered anything with this mentality.

How are pilots different from mechanics, railroad workers, public sector workers, etc?

Cuz we’ve been looking down on people since 1903. Come on. Pump the ego up and expect more. You wanna work a desk job looking at vital statistics and issuing social insurance numbers?

[FNGYYZ]

So looks like we would have gotten profit sharing AGAIN this year if we didn't give it away?

https://www.tipranks.com/news/company-a ... h-for-2026

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

So looks like we would have gotten profit sharing AGAIN this year if we didn't give it away?

https://www.tipranks.com/news/company-a ... h-for-2026

Yup...

2 Years of max payout for the pilot group given away...to get WJ plus 2% pay...

$30k - $40k of money per pilot

[Protonpilot]

So looks like we would have gotten profit sharing AGAIN this year if we didn't give it away?

https://www.tipranks.com/news/company-a ... h-for-2026

Yup...

2 Years of max payout for the pilot group given away...to get WJ plus 2% pay...

$30k - $40k of money per pilot

Where are you getting 'max payout' for the 2025 calendar year?

Under the previous contract, the EBITDAR bonus for pilots maxed out at 8% of payroll if full year EBITDAR margin was 16.5% or better. It paid on a sliding scale for EBITDAR between 13.7% and 16.5%. Payout was zero for EBITDAR margin less than 13.7%.

The annual report released last week shows EBITDA margin for 2025 of 14.0%, near the bottom of the scale. The payout would have been 1.2% of payroll. Not 8%.

[ThrustIdle]

So looks like we would have gotten profit sharing AGAIN this year if we didn't give it away?

https://www.tipranks.com/news/company-a ... h-for-2026

Yup...

2 Years of max payout for the pilot group given away...to get WJ plus 2% pay...

$30k - $40k of money per pilot

Where are you getting 'max payout' for the 2025 calendar year?

Under the previous contract, the EBITDAR bonus for pilots maxed out at 8% of payroll if full year EBITDAR margin was 16.5% or better. It paid on a sliding scale for EBITDAR between 13.7% and 16.5%. Payout was zero for EBITDAR margin less than 13.7%.

The annual report released last week shows EBITDA margin for 2025 of 14.0%, near the bottom of the scale. The payout would have been 1.2% of payroll. Not 8%.

EBITDAR is always more than EBITDA because you need to remove the costs of "R" aka Rent aka Aircraft Leases.

So while the EBITDAR numbers aren't released, they will be higher and likely exceeding 16.5%.

Another concession that stings

[FelixGustof]

I still don't understand why Air Canada pilots had to give anything away with literally every pilot group getting massive gains in contracts

[Daniel Cooper]

Because they know we'll fight with each other over which group should have got more of the scraps they do throw us.

[ZackMorris]

Dang...who runs the union? Same group who choked last round?

[unitatis super omnia]

So looks like we would have gotten profit sharing AGAIN this year if we didn't give it away?

https://www.tipranks.com/news/company-a ... h-for-2026

Yup...

2 Years of max payout for the pilot group given away...to get WJ plus 2% pay...

$30k - $40k of money per pilot

Where are you getting 'max payout' for the 2025 calendar year?

Under the previous contract, the EBITDAR bonus for pilots maxed out at 8% of payroll if full year EBITDAR margin was 16.5% or better. It paid on a sliding scale for EBITDAR between 13.7% and 16.5%. Payout was zero for EBITDAR margin less than 13.7%.

The annual report released last week shows EBITDA margin for 2025 of 14.0%, near the bottom of the scale. The payout would have been 1.2% of payroll. Not 8%.

The Company should just offer the profit share as a cash prize, knowing most of the loudmouth whiners on here would quickly fail the skill testing question. 3rd world pilots indeed...

[Me262]

I still don't understand why Air Canada pilots had to give anything away with literally every pilot group getting massive gains in contracts

Because management knows everyone and their dog will want to hang their hat at AC, especially with the current state of WJ. Why give more? Meanwhile US has 5 airlines that are all top dog, so they need to compete

[thepoors]

I still don't understand why Air Canada pilots had to give anything away with literally every pilot group getting massive gains in contracts

Because ALPA is the union that doesn't strike. So it's as simple as the company calling their bluff and they have nothing else to do except a sell-job on whatever junk the company feels like tossing our way.

To add insult, I've literally had reps tell me flat out that ALPA won't negotiate any penalties for non-compliance. Which very clearly explains the current situation we're in - where even the shitty contract they secured isn't implemented (2 years in...) and they have zero ability to enforce it.

Weak leadership, bad negotiators, loser mindset. Something has to change.

[Bingo Fuel]

Weak leadership, bad negotiators, loser mindset. Something has to change.

Cool. Can't wait to see your name on a nomination.

Good luck.

[thepoors]

Weak leadership, bad negotiators, loser mindset. Something has to change.

Cool. Can't wait to see your name on a nomination.

Good luck.

Or quit if I don't like it right? How original.

[altiplano]

Weak leadership, bad negotiators, loser mindset. Something has to change.

Cool. Can't wait to see your name on a nomination.

Good luck.

Or quit if I don't like it right? How original.

Sounds like the very opposite of quit.

Look forward to see you stepping up and leading.

[cdnavater]

I still don't understand why Air Canada pilots had to give anything away with literally every pilot group getting massive gains in contracts

Because ALPA is the union that doesn't strike. So it's as simple as the company calling their bluff and they have nothing else to do except a sell-job on whatever junk the company feels like tossing our way.

To add insult, I've literally had reps tell me flat out that ALPA won't negotiate any penalties for non-compliance. Which very clearly explains the current situation we're in - where even the shitty contract they secured isn't implemented (2 years in...) and they have zero ability to enforce it.

Weak leadership, bad negotiators, loser mindset. Something has to change.

Won’t negotiate is not the same as doing nothing, negotiating has a give and take! Arbitration can enforce and award penalties without having to give anything to the company!
You shouldn’t have to “negotiate” an already negotiated contract, if you say they aren’t grieving any of the violations, that’s different and should not be happening.

[thepoors]

I still don't understand why Air Canada pilots had to give anything away with literally every pilot group getting massive gains in contracts

Because ALPA is the union that doesn't strike. So it's as simple as the company calling their bluff and they have nothing else to do except a sell-job on whatever junk the company feels like tossing our way.

To add insult, I've literally had reps tell me flat out that ALPA won't negotiate any penalties for non-compliance. Which very clearly explains the current situation we're in - where even the shitty contract they secured isn't implemented (2 years in...) and they have zero ability to enforce it.

Weak leadership, bad negotiators, loser mindset. Something has to change.

Won’t negotiate is not the same as doing nothing, negotiating has a give and take! Arbitration can enforce and award penalties without having to give anything to the company!
You shouldn’t have to “negotiate” an already negotiated contract, if you say they aren’t grieving any of the violations, that’s different and should not be happening.

The claim is that it is not possible to negotiate penalties into a contract, so they don't even try.

I agree that we shouldn't have to negotiate things in a ratified contract. But that's what's happening and will happen going into the next round. "Negotiating capital" will be used to enforce things that should've been implemented already and the company will blatantly exploit that. And then future gains will also have no penalties or recourse if the company doesn't feel like abiding, and we repeat the same charade.

[Mr. North]

It's not a claim its a fact. The CLC at it's core is remedial not punitive. An arbitrator can order compliance, back pay, interest, or damages tied to an actual loss but they are not there to issue fines as punishment. That’s not an ALPA preference, that’s just how Canadian labour law functions.

Even if penalty clauses were a viable thing, you’re skipping a basic reality, that the company would have to agree to them.

Why would they casually accept open-ended financial risk? They wouldn’t. That risk just gets priced back into the deal. Every item tied to a “penalty” suddenly becomes far more expensive because one side is now underwriting uncertain liability.

That’s the part people like you seem to miss. You don’t just “add penalties.” You would trade for them, and the cost invariably shows up somewhere else.

[thepoors]

It's not a claim its a fact. The CLC at it's core is remedial not punitive. An arbitrator can order compliance, back pay, interest, or damages tied to an actual loss but they are not there to issue fines as punishment. That’s not an ALPA preference, that’s just how Canadian labour law functions.

Even if penalty clauses were a viable thing, you’re skipping a basic reality, that the company would have to agree to them.

Why would they casually accept open-ended financial risk? They wouldn’t. That risk just gets priced back into the deal. Every item tied to a “penalty” suddenly becomes far more expensive because one side is now underwriting uncertain liability.

That’s the part people like you seem to miss. You don’t just “add penalties.” You would trade for them, and the cost invariably shows up somewhere else.

So what's the point of having a contract and a union then? If it's not worth the paper it's printed on and the company can violate anything it wants without consequences?

[Bingo Fuel]

It's not a claim its a fact. The CLC at it's core is remedial not punitive. An arbitrator can order compliance, back pay, interest, or damages tied to an actual loss but they are not there to issue fines as punishment. That’s not an ALPA preference, that’s just how Canadian labour law functions.

Even if penalty clauses were a viable thing, you’re skipping a basic reality, that the company would have to agree to them.

Why would they casually accept open-ended financial risk? They wouldn’t. That risk just gets priced back into the deal. Every item tied to a “penalty” suddenly becomes far more expensive because one side is now underwriting uncertain liability.

That’s the part people like you seem to miss. You don’t just “add penalties.” You would trade for them, and the cost invariably shows up somewhere else.

So what's the point of having a contract and a union then? If it's not worth the paper it's printed on and the company can violate anything it wants without consequences?

I want to try and understand the point you're trying to make, so I'm going to ask for a bit of clarity. It sounds like this is the point you're trying to make:

If the company cannot be punished for violating the contract, and the grievance process is too slow and ineffective, then there is no point in having a contract or a union.

Is that an accurate representation of your opinion?

[thepoors]

It's not a claim its a fact. The CLC at it's core is remedial not punitive. An arbitrator can order compliance, back pay, interest, or damages tied to an actual loss but they are not there to issue fines as punishment. That’s not an ALPA preference, that’s just how Canadian labour law functions.

Even if penalty clauses were a viable thing, you’re skipping a basic reality, that the company would have to agree to them.

Why would they casually accept open-ended financial risk? They wouldn’t. That risk just gets priced back into the deal. Every item tied to a “penalty” suddenly becomes far more expensive because one side is now underwriting uncertain liability.

That’s the part people like you seem to miss. You don’t just “add penalties.” You would trade for them, and the cost invariably shows up somewhere else.

So what's the point of having a contract and a union then? If it's not worth the paper it's printed on and the company can violate anything it wants without consequences?

I want to try and understand the point you're trying to make, so I'm going to ask for a bit of clarity. It sounds like this is the point you're trying to make:

If the company cannot be punished for violating the contract, and the grievance process is too slow and ineffective, then there is no point in having a contract or a union.

Is that an accurate representation of your opinion?

Yes. At what point does being unionized matter if the union has no ability to enforce a contract and the company only follows the articles it feels like? We are all paying thousands in union dues every year, what is the return?

In other words: what has ALPA forced the company to do, that it didn't want to?

If penalties cannot be integrated there at least needs to be hard lines drawn where if the company does not implement or is not following a part of the contract, there is some immediate recourse for us. They can't be allowed to say "vendor dependent" indefinitely or milk the grievance process for years to their advantage.

If the grievance process in this country is broken why is ALPA Canada doing nothing about it? Why are they doing nothing about labour laws that favour corporations? This is where there is a disconnect from the dues I'm paying and the (lack of) action I'm seeing. I hear a lot of talk but when it counts we are not getting the representation we need, when we need it.

[unitatis super omnia]

Cool. Can't wait to see your name on a nomination.

Good luck.

Or quit if I don't like it right? How original.

Sounds like the very opposite of quit.

Look forward to see you stepping up and leading.

I don't. This arrogant rage-a-holic talks tough but would wet his pants in front of the Company before leading our Association off a cliff. The all or nothing approach to negotiations has no precedent of success in this country and I highly doubt a lazy keyboard warrior is going to change any of that. I'll take the US carriers proven path of pattern bargaining over 10-years vs ACPAs shackling us to 10-years of 2%.

[thepoors]

Or quit if I don't like it right? How original.

Sounds like the very opposite of quit.

Look forward to see you stepping up and leading.

I don't. This arrogant rage-a-holic talks tough but would wet his pants in front of the Company before leading our Association off a cliff. The all or nothing approach to negotiations has no precedent of success in this country and I highly doubt a lazy keyboard warrior is going to change any of that. I'll take the US carriers proven path of pattern bargaining over 10-years vs ACPAs shackling us to 10-years of 2%.

ALPA already bends over in front of the company on our behalf. Pants wetting wouldn't add much.

This tired old pattern bargaining argument has been beaten to death and it's been explained to you how it won't work here many times in ways that even a child could understand, yet you still fail to grasp it.

This is not the US: we don't have 5 majors to bargain off of. We have one legacy and a couple of half-assed LLCs and regionals who've secured very little in terms of financial gains. There is no pattern bargaining without a precedent first being set. Get that through your head.

[piedpiper]

I mean at this point AT/WJ have a superior contract to AC in many aspects. Pay wise AC is marginally ahead, less so on the narrowbody.

What airline has long call reserve again? Which has a robust trip trade system? Not AC, I'll tell you that.