What's life like as a commuting pilot to start?

[vrromvroom]

How has your experience been starting at AC as a commuter?

Length of reserve? Costs? Lifestyle issues? Anything else you've felt?

[fixnfly]

Depends on where you're commuting from and how senior you are on your aircraft/position. I've heard commuting from YYZ or YOW to/from YUL is one of the easiest commutes. Commuting from the east coast, especially in the winter is pretty difficult. Commuting from YYC or Vancouver island to YVR isn't too bad either with lots of options. YEG, YXE, YQR and YWG aren't too difficult to commute from either as there just aren't a lot of commuters from the smaller cities. Hopefully you can hold a block as being junior reserve while commuting is pretty hellish no matter the company/aircraft/position, but atleast there's lots of movement at AC so you shouldn't be on reserve long. If AC had long call reserve like Westjet or many of the American carriers, commuting on reserve would be a lot more manageable and I'm sure that will be an option in the next contract as it's pretty industry standard.

Crashpads are getting more expensive and scarce. There's a couple airline crashpad facebook groups that can help you find a place. Commuting has probably cost me close to $4000-$5000 per year in AIF's and taxes for flights. I have a place to stay with family so I can save a bit on accommodation. Biggest downside is the time wasted sitting in the crashpad or at airports waiting for your flight. I had a sim partner who was hardly getting called out on reserve and was sitting in his crashpad for 18 days a month with 24 other commuters coming and going at all hours; all run by a couple of slumlord flight attendants who were raking in the money while not even living there or looking after the place. I found bringing my laptop to the lounge and dealing with emails/work/watching documentaries helps the time go by. Overall you have to weigh the pros and cons of your own situation. My core family and friend network as well as side business is in my hometown so commuting will always be worth it to me, plus owing a decent sized detached house with a garage and workshop is far more affordable outside of Vancouver or the GTA.

If you can, try to get on a Widebody as the flights leave at night so you have all day to commute in, and arrive back in the morning or afternoon so you don't waste much time at a crashpad although it makes for a long day. Narrowbody flying starts and ends at all times of the day and is far more unpredictable.

[noreasterYHZ]

How has your experience been starting at AC as a commuter?

Length of reserve? Costs? Lifestyle issues? Anything else you've felt?

I've been commuting out east for a while and I can say a Jr Pilot commuting at Air Canada will be terrible.

No long call reserve, still have to pay for commutes plus even the Jumpseat. Truly industry worst.

[piedpiper]

Commuting now vs 10 years ago is a lot harder due to the loads. Used to be able to get YVR-YYZ pretty easily on any plane as a stby con. These days, good luck.

If you commute from YOW to YYZ or YYJ/YLW/YYC to YVR you'll be fine. Outside of that, you are adding a lot of stress to your life for pretty little extra. WB block holder commuting is probably the easiest out of all of it. So if you want to be a new hire and commute, pray you get 777/787 RP. Even on reserve, with the new 2 days ahead of time awards you can manage a commute pretty well.

Add commuting costs and crash pad costs up over a year, and factor how many less days at home you have, it's maybe not such a bad idea to consider putting that money towards living in base. Even if it costs a little bit more, your overall stress and life enjoyment will be much higher.

[350driver]

Commuting now vs 10 years ago is a lot harder due to the loads. Used to be able to get YVR-YYZ pretty easily on any plane as a stby con. These days, good luck.

If you commute from YOW to YYZ or YYJ/YLW/YYC to YVR you'll be fine. Outside of that, you are adding a lot of stress to your life for pretty little extra. WB block holder commuting is probably the easiest out of all of it. So if you want to be a new hire and commute, pray you get 777/787 RP. Even on reserve, with the new 2 days ahead of time awards you can manage a commute pretty well.

Add commuting costs and crash pad costs up over a year, and factor how many less days at home you have, it's maybe not such a bad idea to consider putting that money towards living in base. Even if it costs a little bit more, your overall stress and life enjoyment will be much higher.

Honestly' haven't read the part of the contract where widebody assignments happen 2 days out? Is that always the case now on rsv for widebody? Thought they still had the standard call out. Can you tell my username doesn't reflect what I fly LOL.

[piedpiper]

Commuting now vs 10 years ago is a lot harder due to the loads. Used to be able to get YVR-YYZ pretty easily on any plane as a stby con. These days, good luck.

If you commute from YOW to YYZ or YYJ/YLW/YYC to YVR you'll be fine. Outside of that, you are adding a lot of stress to your life for pretty little extra. WB block holder commuting is probably the easiest out of all of it. So if you want to be a new hire and commute, pray you get 777/787 RP. Even on reserve, with the new 2 days ahead of time awards you can manage a commute pretty well.

Add commuting costs and crash pad costs up over a year, and factor how many less days at home you have, it's maybe not such a bad idea to consider putting that money towards living in base. Even if it costs a little bit more, your overall stress and life enjoyment will be much higher.

Honestly' haven't read the part of the contract where widebody assignments happen 2 days out? Is that always the case now on rsv for widebody? Thought they still had the standard call out. Can you tell my username doesn't reflect what I fly LOL.

Not WB assignments. All assignments that are known. Any open time has to be awarded two days out. There is still risk of short call but 90% of the flying I get is awarded days in advance and you are released 24 hours prior to check in as well.

[altiplano]

The "2 days out" is bullshit unless you get at the perfect time, with the perfect RAP on your last day off. You still need to be there or you're fucked when they call. They're firing new guys that aren't in base for an assignment on reserve because they assumed they were good. First one is a meeting, second one is out the door.

You're better to figure a way to close to base until you can figure it out and get the seat/seniority you need... there are a lot of affordable options in a 3 hour circle of YYZ.

[350driver]

Commuting now vs 10 years ago is a lot harder due to the loads. Used to be able to get YVR-YYZ pretty easily on any plane as a stby con. These days, good luck.

If you commute from YOW to YYZ or YYJ/YLW/YYC to YVR you'll be fine. Outside of that, you are adding a lot of stress to your life for pretty little extra. WB block holder commuting is probably the easiest out of all of it. So if you want to be a new hire and commute, pray you get 777/787 RP. Even on reserve, with the new 2 days ahead of time awards you can manage a commute pretty well.

Add commuting costs and crash pad costs up over a year, and factor how many less days at home you have, it's maybe not such a bad idea to consider putting that money towards living in base. Even if it costs a little bit more, your overall stress and life enjoyment will be much higher.

Honestly' haven't read the part of the contract where widebody assignments happen 2 days out? Is that always the case now on rsv for widebody? Thought they still had the standard call out. Can you tell my username doesn't reflect what I fly LOL.

Not WB assignments. All assignments that are known. Any open time has to be awarded two days out. There is still risk of short call but 90% of the flying I get is awarded days in advance and you are released 24 hours prior to check in as well.

Cool, didn't know that. What's this 24 hour release about?

Noted altiplano. Seen a bunch of firings on the cmsc bids in the last few years.

[piedpiper]

The "2 days out" is bullshit unless you get at the perfect time, with the perfect RAP on your last day off. You still need to be there or you're fucked when they call. They're firing new guys that aren't in base for an assignment on reserve because they assumed they were good. First one is a meeting, second one is out the door.

You're better to figure a way to close to base until you can figure it out and get the seat/seniority you need... there are a lot of affordable options in a 3 hour circle of YYZ.

No it's not bullshit. It works great, and in my experience I generally got called out two days ahead of time or didn't work at all.

Long call reserve is the ultimate solution but this is not a terrible middle ground until we get there.

And sorry, if you're too dumb to realize you need to be in base when you're on reserve and don't have an assignment or have been released I don't know what to say.

[altiplano]

The "2 days out" is bullshit unless you get at the perfect time, with the perfect RAP on your last day off. You still need to be there or you're fucked when they call. They're firing new guys that aren't in base for an assignment on reserve because they assumed they were good. First one is a meeting, second one is out the door.

You're better to figure a way to close to base until you can figure it out and get the seat/seniority you need... there are a lot of affordable options in a 3 hour circle of YYZ.

No it's not bullshit. It works great, and in my experience I generally got called out two days ahead of time or didn't work at all.

Long call reserve is the ultimate solution but this is not a terrible middle ground until we get there.

And sorry, if you're too dumb to realize you need to be in base when you're on reserve and don't have an assignment or have been released I don't know what to say.

Yeah it is bullshit. What's the advantage if I have to be in base anyway?

You're off Sat/Sun...
Reserve Monday-Friday RAP 13:00-03:00

No call for flying awards Saturday. Sunday they call you at 10am normal awards and you are assigned a 4 day trip starting at 20:00 on Tuesday. You should be in the clear until report, but really you still have to be in base Monday in case they call you or change your trip. So yeah, the 2 day thing is bullshit since you aren't really released. The fact is that the company insists they can still assign you new flying even when you are "released" and fact is you will now be best fit for a single day short call on Monday. Ask your rep about the grievance ongoing. Company doesn't think release means what you and I think it means.

So unless your RAP times and pairing times line up perfect, and they rarely do... you had better be coming into base to waste your time and money sitting in your crash pad or hotel on Monday...

And the fact that 2 days out RAP doesn't apply by CARs, but still they ram RAPs and "best fit" down your throat? What's the point?Oh, and be sure to thank RobW, ErikH, QuinnJ, & MikeM if you see them and tell them to suck it. Best fit is the among the biggest screw ups there ever was in this group, and that's saying a lot.

[piedpiper]

I have been fully released a few times with an award like that. Just by asking.

It's a start is all I'm saying.

So many people love to bitch and complain, but the fact is until last year they would hold trips in open until 2-4 hours before check in. And you knew you were getting it but they refused to assign it. Now they have no choice if it's in open time and not a last min book off. It's a step in the right direction, stop complaining.

[Mekki]

I know they can change your assignment right up until you hit the release period, but after that they cannot change anything and you don't even have to answer the phone no? Your iadp wouldn't even show a rap at that point. I've never been assigned flying while I was inside the release for a check-in within the release period.

I'm not super familiar with the grievance or how people got screwed but nothing surprises me.

[altiplano]

I have been fully released a few times with an award like that. Just by asking.

It's a start is all I'm saying.

So many people love to bitch and complain, but the fact is until last year they would hold trips in open until 2-4 hours before check in. And you knew you were getting it but they refused to assign it. Now they have no choice if it's in open time and not a last min book off. It's a step in the right direction, stop complaining.

There's a difference between complaining and telling it like it is.

Yeah. That was brutal when the awards were supposed to "start" but they were never ending and they just didn't do it so they kept all options open.

I've been screwed by them on this and I know others have too. Like I said, they say you're released but you aren't and if you still have to commute just to sit (and pay) for your crashpad orv whatever, what's the difference. This thread was about commuting. Even with 2 days advance awards it makes little difference.

[30westpirate]

The "2 days out" is bullshit unless you get at the perfect time, with the perfect RAP on your last day off. You still need to be there or you're fucked when they call. They're firing new guys that aren't in base for an assignment on reserve because they assumed they were good. First one is a meeting, second one is out the door.

This is because RP on the last day of reserve thought they can’t be used and decided to be not in base. But turns out the company can augments a single-day turn, either a delayed flight or a long red eye turn (YUL-YVR)

2 day call out works well on the WB. You have few morning departures and majority of it is in evening. Very predictable morning and evening RAP time. Also most of the overseas flying requires a day off due to # time zones, so a 4 day reserve period turns into a 3 day if you’re called out on the 1st day for a 3 day Europe or Asia.

[gqra]

The "2 days out" is bullshit unless you get at the perfect time, with the perfect RAP on your last day off. You still need to be there or you're fucked when they call. They're firing new guys that aren't in base for an assignment on reserve because they assumed they were good. First one is a meeting, second one is out the door.

This is because RP on the last day of reserve thought they can’t be used and decided to be not in base. But turns out the company can augments a single-day turn, either a delayed flight or a long red eye turn (YUL-YVR)

2 day call out works well on the WB. You have few morning departures and majority of it is in evening. Very predictable morning and evening RAP time. Also most of the overseas flying requires a day off due to # time zones, so a 4 day reserve period turns into a 3 day if you’re called out on the 1st day for a 3 day Europe or Asia.

Getting tired of hearing how much better things are if you are on the WB. Hopefully next contract we can get provisions that work well for EVERYBODY.

[flyingcanuck]

The "2 days out" is bullshit unless you get at the perfect time, with the perfect RAP on your last day off. You still need to be there or you're fucked when they call. They're firing new guys that aren't in base for an assignment on reserve because they assumed they were good. First one is a meeting, second one is out the door.

This is because RP on the last day of reserve thought they can’t be used and decided to be not in base. But turns out the company can augments a single-day turn, either a delayed flight or a long red eye turn (YUL-YVR)

2 day call out works well on the WB. You have few morning departures and majority of it is in evening. Very predictable morning and evening RAP time. Also most of the overseas flying requires a day off due to # time zones, so a 4 day reserve period turns into a 3 day if you’re called out on the 1st day for a 3 day Europe or Asia.

Getting tired of hearing how much better things are if you are on the WB. Hopefully next contract we can get provisions that work well for EVERYBODY.

NB is such a hard one to fix because of the 16 day cap. No junior wants it gone because theyll get a ton of shit pairings, and seniors want it gone to get a better schedule. Idk how you put that one back in the box.

[altiplano]

Before optimizer C and the 16 day cap blocks on the 320 were pretty good for everyone except a handful at the very bottom. Junior reserve went senior to the junior block holder.

50% 320 would be maybe 12 day blocks and every weekend off. Above that got even better.

You did your time and worked up quickly into good schedules.

There was a push to bring optimizer B back at least so it wasn't as aggressive in swapping but the company said it's not available from the vendor anymore. Right .. The company has learned that they can keep us all at work more with their shitty pairing construction and some M-F dick decided that has value to them. Afterall, why should pilots only work 12 days/month when they have to work 20 in the office!

The answer is full seniority bidding which will cause the company to produce efficient pairings that can create block solutions. Minimum daily guarantee coming up helps, and largely solves the junior block problems of before, but of course it needs to go higher next round.

[cdnavater]

This is because RP on the last day of reserve thought they can’t be used and decided to be not in base. But turns out the company can augments a single-day turn, either a delayed flight or a long red eye turn (YUL-YVR)

2 day call out works well on the WB. You have few morning departures and majority of it is in evening. Very predictable morning and evening RAP time. Also most of the overseas flying requires a day off due to # time zones, so a 4 day reserve period turns into a 3 day if you’re called out on the 1st day for a 3 day Europe or Asia.

Getting tired of hearing how much better things are if you are on the WB. Hopefully next contract we can get provisions that work well for EVERYBODY.

NB is such a hard one to fix because of the 16 day cap. No junior wants it gone because theyll get a ton of shit pairings, and seniors want it gone to get a better schedule. Idk how you put that one back in the box.

To fix it, you would need to fix the daily min credit, 5 would get you to 80 in 16, so essentially worst case scenario at all min credit pairings would work you to the cap.
Make sure the credit is daily regardless of any duty, the donut pairings are a loophole in the duty rig calculation, even with a 1 to 4 ratio, a three day pairing can get you less than 10 hours credit.

[piedpiper]

I would happily see the max 16 days go away, but we would need a proper min day in the 5 hr range like you said. Ideally 5:15 a la Delta.

I am also ok being stuck with 17 day block as Jr guy if it means I can see the light at the end of the tunnel come higher seniority. Right now you look at the whole list and no one is happy. Used to be that you put a few years in of shit and you start to get the better stuff and less days worked as you get more Sr. Not so much the case anymore with the 16 day cap that just optimizes everyone into 16 days unless you're blockholder number 1-5.

[350driver]

What are the chances of the old reserve system coming back where you can pass a pairing down?

What is long call reserve at WestJet? I believe it is 14 hours at Transat, and some U.S. carriers use 18 or even 28 hour call out windows.

Wonder if AC will get long call reserve

The February 18 Express Entry PR announcement seems conveniently timed with the Air Canada pilot negotiations. If foreign pilots can come over on work permits and operate with a C1 D visa, the experienced pilot shortage narrative could change quickly, along with hiring requirements.

Recent new hire bios suggest Air Canada is dealing more with an experience gap than before. They benefited from the Lynx gong show exodus/shutdown and likewise Jetlines since 2023 and 2024, which brought in experienced crews. The 2025 hires appear less seasoned overall, with a few exceptions such as RCAF and long serving Jazz pilots who started at Jazz in 2017/2018. Meanwhile, some Encore peers from the same 2017/2018 era are already captains at Air Canada.

What a system eh? Tell your kids "oh yea go to Jazz, we will hire from there"

They hire you, but way longer as compared to if you didn't listen to papa AC and went to the competition

[yhz41]

The 2025 hires appear less seasoned overall, with a few exceptions such as RCAF and long serving Jazz pilots who started at Jazz in 2017/2018. Meanwhile, some Encore peers from the same 2017/2018 era are already captains at Air Canada.

What a system eh? Tell your kids "oh yea go to Jazz, we will hire from there"

They hire you, but way longer as compared to if you didn't listen to papa AC and went to the competition

If there are 2017/2018 Jazz hires, thats because they chose to stay at Jazz. There have been many hires recently that started at Jazz in 2022/2023. But that doesn't feed into your narrative of stay away from jazz I guess.

[350driver]

The 2025 hires appear less seasoned overall, with a few exceptions such as RCAF and long serving Jazz pilots who started at Jazz in 2017/2018. Meanwhile, some Encore peers from the same 2017/2018 era are already captains at Air Canada.

What a system eh? Tell your kids "oh yea go to Jazz, we will hire from there"

They hire you, but way longer as compared to if you didn't listen to papa AC and went to the competition

If there are 2017/2018 Jazz hires, thats because they chose to stay at Jazz. There have been many hires recently that started at Jazz in 2022/2023. But that doesn't feed into your narrative of stay away from jazz I guess.

Actually that’s highly incorrect. Many were held back and just made it to property. Your word against mine. I don’t really care if you agree with the truth or not. But I can see you being a typical argumentative type trying to make a point that doesn’t actually carry weight.

The point is the entire thing is fucked. Go to Jazz, ‘we expect to hire from there’ only for them to turn around and hit the competition instead while holding their own back.

Let me guess, some dweeb will come out and say jazz isn’t our own right? Cause I mean it’s a CPA. Technically not wrong. But who created that CPA. Where would those pilots be if this wasn’t some bs work around at the highest levels? My point exactly.

Sure you can sit here and come up with 1001 reasons for why, doesn’t make the treatment correct.

In the end who cares right? That’s the ac mentality. Each guy to their own.

Except when it’s union negots. Then we all wear lanyards cause of “unity” 67/33 lol.

Sometimes I wonder why I left the ME to come here

All I see are your types picking at straws to drive a point that somehow things are better than they actually are.

The industry here is more fucked than 2005 after losing a 757 Captain Seat at Harmony caused many of the good guys to ending up at EK on the 777. Back then guys respected the profession more. Not debate semantics like you’re trying to pull off here.

The whole system in Canada including its treatment of pilots is messed up, is that clear enough? Or is this just my narrative too?

If it’s so bad, just go back right? Yup. Me and many others if company clarity isn’t specified shortly. In fact the more of us give up the seats, the more kids can post on social media about their upgrades so their Facebook friends can tell them how much they deserve it after flying for 5 years total.

Wake up.

[cdnavater]

The 2025 hires appear less seasoned overall, with a few exceptions such as RCAF and long serving Jazz pilots who started at Jazz in 2017/2018. Meanwhile, some Encore peers from the same 2017/2018 era are already captains at Air Canada.

What a system eh? Tell your kids "oh yea go to Jazz, we will hire from there"

They hire you, but way longer as compared to if you didn't listen to papa AC and went to the competition

If there are 2017/2018 Jazz hires, thats because they chose to stay at Jazz. There have been many hires recently that started at Jazz in 2022/2023. But that doesn't feed into your narrative of stay away from jazz I guess.

Actually that’s highly incorrect. Many were held back and just made it to property. Your word against mine. I don’t really care if you agree with the truth or not. But I can see you being a typical argumentative type trying to make a point that doesn’t actually carry weight.

The point is the entire thing is fucked. Go to Jazz, ‘we expect to hire from there’ only for them to turn around and hit the competition instead while holding their own back.

Let me guess, some dweeb will come out and say jazz isn’t our own right? Cause I mean it’s a CPA. Technically not wrong. But who created that CPA. Where would those pilots be if this wasn’t some bs work around at the highest levels? My point exactly.

Sure you can sit here and come up with 1001 reasons for why, doesn’t make the treatment correct.

In the end who cares right? That’s the ac mentality. Each guy to their own.

Except when it’s union negots. Then we all wear lanyards cause of “unity” 67/33 lol.

Sometimes I wonder why I left the ME to come here

All I see are your types picking at straws to drive a point that somehow things are better than they actually are.

The industry here is more fucked than 2005 after losing a 757 Captain Seat at Harmony caused many of the good guys to ending up at EK on the 777. Back then guys respected the profession more. Not debate semantics like you’re trying to pull off here.

The whole system in Canada including its treatment of pilots is messed up, is that clear enough? Or is this just my narrative too?

If it’s so bad, just go back right? Yup. Me and many others if company clarity isn’t specified shortly. In fact the more of us give up the seats, the more kids can post on social media about their upgrades so their Facebook friends can tell them how much they deserve it after flying for 5 years total.

Wake up.

Can’t argue with most of that, just want to say if there are 2017/2018 Jazz pilots just showing up now, the likely scenario is one of two things. They were rejected the first or even multiple times and finally had a successful interview or had decided to stay at Jazz and decided to go now before we no longer exist.
I just had a look at the language, essentially if they were rejected before they can enter the recruitment process again and based on their DOH, they would either be part of the 60% or 30%. If they were rejected before they also don’t count towards the 10% maximum rejection rate but would count towards the quota if accepted.
The union does monitor this and it certainly is not likely a case of seniority being ignored.

[350driver]

While that's great cdn...

Here's an idea...

Interview for AC when joining Jazz. Not Jazz. Why are we interviewing for Jazz to fly AC pax? Why is it such a ridiculous system? lol.

Or maybe when guys apply to Jazz, ask them on the application, "HEY DO U WANT TO ALSO GO TO AC AFTER SPENDING 2 YEARS AT JAZZ"?

If buddy answers yes, then make the interview an AC/JAZZ interview.

Then in the interview results you can tell the guys, hey AC doesn't like your face, but we like you. What do you want to do?

Then a guy can know going into Jazz that they're likely not ending up at AC. Then they may choose a VERY different career path.

This rolling the dice on whether a 787 skipper likes your responses, when the difference between YOU and the INTERVIEWER is nothing other than the fact than when you push back, you have 78 AC pax, and they have 282 AC pax... is seriously mind blowing.

Oh well, won't be solved by a post on avcanada. Just feel for the guys that got screwed by some bs paper pusher that had to justify their jobs by pushing this policy.

[oldnbold]

Holy izzat