Ghost of Mike Harris haunts Doug Ford

[pelmet]

I have plenty of gripes with how the Trudeau government ran things, my bigger beef is with populist politicians pretending to be for the little guy then doing everything to be the opposite.

EVERYTHING? Please show how EVERYTHING he has done is pretending to be for the little guy but the opposite has been done.

I have a beef with posters that make exaggerated statement to an extreme degree. It destroys credibility.

If you want to say that it was foolish to allow speeding cameras, that is credible.

I brought up speed cameras because he was the "problem" because he changed the laws, then he undid the law that allowed them in the first place. He is a populist first. How does allowing people to speed in neighborhoods help the little guy?

And good thing I'm not writing for you lmao, yes I'm exaggerating but that's because he keeps making a stink of how he's "for the little guy"

A lot of the projects he's announced or laws he's changed were to benefit a select group of companies, he has a lot of developer friends and when you follow the money a lot of proposals only benefit them. Why are we giving up public land to a company whose CFO bought Doug's sticker company?

Why does he talk about being transparent then announce he's changing the freedom of information act?

Why does the small government guy keep medaling in municipal affairs?

Once again(as previously mentioned)......Ford has made plenty of mistakes but is way better than the financially destructive policies of the two alternatives.

Seeing as my actual evidence provided earlier showed that all three parties have brought forth legislation for photo radar and only the conservatives have ended it(twice apparently), I will give him the benefit of the doubt(especially as the liberals and NDP opposed ending photo radar in Ontario)....and that does hugely benefit the little guy who was becoming a victim of the rapacious local politicians. I give the Liberals and NDP a 0% score mark and conservative a 60% passing mark overall on the subject(assuming that ending photo radar is the position.

I vote based on policy, not the BS that comes out of most politicians campaigning mouths. If Ford call himself a populist, I don't care. If Trudeau calls himself whatever he called himself, I don't care. I care about policy(as most common sense and intelligent people do). So, you can blather on all you want about it....it is irrelevant.

He has the authority of the people's vote to meddle in municipal affairs. The people can vote him out next time if they don't like it. But he was elected with a majority again(and both opposition leaders resigned), so he has a mandate. He was a known quantity when re-elected.

He talks about being transparent and changes the act because he is a politician. If the people don't like it, they can vote against it(foolishly thinking threat the other parties would act differently).

Folks......regardless of whether you are on the right or left, when you run around screaming liar and hypocrite about a politician, it has zero credibility. I have been following politics for a long time. The ones screaming about hypocrisy are almost always hypocrites themselves. The reality is that there is a real reason they are criticizing but are pretending to be on the high road.

So, I will give a credible statement in response to those who vote for the other parties. I feel that the lying hypocrite politicians I support have better policies overall than the lying hypocrite politicians you support.

[lostav8r]

EVERYTHING? Please show how EVERYTHING he has done is pretending to be for the little guy but the opposite has been done.

I have a beef with posters that make exaggerated statement to an extreme degree. It destroys credibility.

If you want to say that it was foolish to allow speeding cameras, that is credible.

I brought up speed cameras because he was the "problem" because he changed the laws, then he undid the law that allowed them in the first place. He is a populist first. How does allowing people to speed in neighborhoods help the little guy?

And good thing I'm not writing for you lmao, yes I'm exaggerating but that's because he keeps making a stink of how he's "for the little guy"

A lot of the projects he's announced or laws he's changed were to benefit a select group of companies, he has a lot of developer friends and when you follow the money a lot of proposals only benefit them. Why are we giving up public land to a company whose CFO bought Doug's sticker company?

Why does he talk about being transparent then announce he's changing the freedom of information act?

Why does the small government guy keep medaling in municipal affairs?

Once again(as previously mentioned)......Ford has made plenty of mistakes but is way better than the financially destructive policies of the two alternatives.

Seeing as my actual evidence provided earlier showed that all three parties have brought forth legislation for photo radar and only the conservatives have ended it(twice apparently), I will give him the benefit of the doubt(especially as the liberals and NDP opposed ending photo radar in Ontario)....and that does hugely benefit the little guy who was becoming a victim of the rapacious local politicians. I give the Liberals and NDP a 0% score mark and conservative a 60% passing mark overall on the subject(assuming that ending photo radar is the position.

I vote based on policy, not the BS that comes out of most politicians campaigning mouths. If Ford call himself a populist, I don't care. If Trudeau calls himself whatever he called himself, I don't care. I care about policy(as most common sense and intelligent people do). So, you can blather on all you want about it....it is irrelevant.

He has the authority of the people's vote to meddle in municipal affairs. The people can vote him out next time if they don't like it. But he was elected with a majority again(and both opposition leaders resigned), so he has a mandate. He was a known quantity when re-elected.

He talks about being transparent and changes the act because he is a politician. If the people don't like it, they can vote against it(foolishly thinking threat the other parties would act differently).

Folks......regardless of whether you are on the right or left, when you run around screaming liar and hypocrite about a politician, it has zero credibility. I have been following politics for a long time. The ones screaming about hypocrisy are almost always hypocrites themselves. The reality is that there is a real reason they are criticizing but are pretending to be on the high road.

So, I will give a credible statement in response to those who vote for the other parties. I feel that the lying hypocrite politicians I support have better policies overall than the lying hypocrite politicians you support.

A 55% percent reduction in collisions didn't help the little guy?

“Overall, a total decrease of 55% in collisions was seen once ASE cameras were installed (in Toronto).”

You call the liberal financially disastrous but Ford is gutting revenues and ballooning debt.

You can say he has the authority of the people but he's literally making illegal changes that are against the charter, and instead of admitting that he wastes tens of millions in court, even when he knows he will lose?

[pelmet]

A 55% percent reduction in collisions didn't help the little guy?

We could make it 100%....ban cars.

[lostav8r]

A 55% percent reduction in collisions didn't help the little guy?

We could make it 100%....ban cars.

Are you here for an actual productive discussion?

[pelmet]

You call the liberal financially disastrous but Ford is gutting revenues and ballooning debt.

You can say he has the authority of the people but he's literally making illegal changes that are against the charter, and instead of admitting that he wastes tens of millions in court, even when he knows he will lose?

The people can decide what they want in the next election. If they feel that a return to liberals and NDP will somehow make the debt situation better(good luck with that one based on history), they can vote that way. A lot of people happen to like that he is not raising taxes even more so that revenues are not as much as you would prefer.

I haven't followed the Access to Information story but plenty of governments have passed laws that were tossed by a court. I guess they were illegal as well.

[lostav8r]

You call the liberal financially disastrous but Ford is gutting revenues and ballooning debt.

You can say he has the authority of the people but he's literally making illegal changes that are against the charter, and instead of admitting that he wastes tens of millions in court, even when he knows he will lose?

The people can decide what they want in the next election. If they feel that a return to liberals and NDP will somehow make the debt situation better(good luck with that one based on history), they can vote that way. A lot of people happen to like that he is not raising taxes even more so that revenues are not as much as you would prefer.

I haven't followed the Access to Information story but plenty of governments have passed laws that were tossed by a court. I guess they were illegal as well.

Ford is the first premier in Ontario to use the notwithstanding clause and he also threatened to use it to derail an election.

But Pelmet, why should I keep responding to you if you won't reply in good faith? You were not even willing to acknowledge cutting car accidents in half might be a benefit to the public?

[pelmet]

You call the liberal financially disastrous but Ford is gutting revenues and ballooning debt.

You can say he has the authority of the people but he's literally making illegal changes that are against the charter, and instead of admitting that he wastes tens of millions in court, even when he knows he will lose?

The people can decide what they want in the next election. If they feel that a return to liberals and NDP will somehow make the debt situation better(good luck with that one based on history), they can vote that way. A lot of people happen to like that he is not raising taxes even more so that revenues are not as much as you would prefer.

I haven't followed the Access to Information story but plenty of governments have passed laws that were tossed by a court. I guess they were illegal as well.

Ford is the first premier in Ontario to use the notwithstanding clause and he also threatened to use it to derail an election.

Notwithstanding clause has been used multiple times in the country. Each province that has used it had to have a first time using it. Just because it was used for the first time does not mean that it was not good policy.

[lostav8r]

The people can decide what they want in the next election. If they feel that a return to liberals and NDP will somehow make the debt situation better(good luck with that one based on history), they can vote that way. A lot of people happen to like that he is not raising taxes even more so that revenues are not as much as you would prefer.

I haven't followed the Access to Information story but plenty of governments have passed laws that were tossed by a court. I guess they were illegal as well.

Ford is the first premier in Ontario to use the notwithstanding clause and he also threatened to use it to derail an election.

Notwithstanding clause has been used multiple times in the country. Each province that has used it had to have a first time using it. Just because it was used for the first time does not mean that it was not good policy.

Again man, you're ignoring direct questions about responding it good faith....

And to get back to your point on the clause, do you really think it was politically smart to threaten to use the clause during an active municipal election with zero consultation?

Do you think it was a good idea to limit the nurses to a 1% raise during the biggest health crisis we had, knowing it would be overturned in the courts?

[pelmet]

Ford is the first premier in Ontario to use the notwithstanding clause and he also threatened to use it to derail an election.

Notwithstanding clause has been used multiple times in the country. Each province that has used it had to have a first time using it. Just because it was used for the first time does not mean that it was not good policy.

Again man, you're ignoring direct questions about responding it good faith....

And to get back to your point on the clause, do you really think it was politically smart to threaten to use the clause during an active municipal election with zero consultation?

Do you think it was a good idea to limit the nurses to a 1% raise during the biggest health crisis we had, knowing it would be overturned in the courts?

Not aware of the municipal election issue. Not really interested. As for politically smart......we will see at the next election, if he runs again.

Covid thing was long ago. Not aware of the legal issues and court issues on that. Wasn't even aware of some court overturn. Would have to look it up and find out the details at some point. He got elected again, so my understanding is the people felt on election day that his track record made him the most desirable.

Love the bike lane policy though.

[lostav8r]

Notwithstanding clause has been used multiple times in the country. Each province that has used it had to have a first time using it. Just because it was used for the first time does not mean that it was not good policy.

Again man, you're ignoring direct questions about responding it good faith....

And to get back to your point on the clause, do you really think it was politically smart to threaten to use the clause during an active municipal election with zero consultation?

Do you think it was a good idea to limit the nurses to a 1% raise during the biggest health crisis we had, knowing it would be overturned in the courts?

Not aware of the municipal election issue. Not really interested. As for politically smart......we will see at the next election, if he runs again.

Covid thing was long ago. Not aware of the legal issues and court issues on that. Wasn't even aware of some court overturn. Would have to look it up and find out the details at some point. He got elected again, so my understanding is the people felt on election day that his track record made him the most desirable.

Love the bike lane policy though.

So you're admitting you're nearly clueless about all the times he has overstepped his role but still defend the guy?

What did I say about arguing in good faith again?

[pelmet]

Again man, you're ignoring direct questions about responding it good faith....

And to get back to your point on the clause, do you really think it was politically smart to threaten to use the clause during an active municipal election with zero consultation?

Do you think it was a good idea to limit the nurses to a 1% raise during the biggest health crisis we had, knowing it would be overturned in the courts?

Not aware of the municipal election issue. Not really interested. As for politically smart......we will see at the next election, if he runs again.

Covid thing was long ago. Not aware of the legal issues and court issues on that. Wasn't even aware of some court overturn. Would have to look it up and find out the details at some point. He got elected again, so my understanding is the people felt on election day that his track record made him the most desirable.

Love the bike lane policy though.

So you're admitting you're nearly clueless about all the times he has overstepped his role but still defend the guy?

What did I say about arguing in good faith again?

Another fraud argument. I bet the vast majority of people in Ontario would not know the details would not remember the details of nurses during Covid(honestly ask a group of them for exacting details such as what percent was offered). Then ask more random people about the legalities of the municipal election issue.

It is nice that you have been madly searching over the last few days for items to discuss. The bottom line.....the vast majority of people don't care and voted for him.

He gets defense because the alternatives are much worse.

And those bike lanes that were to replace road lanes were stopped.

[lostav8r]

Not aware of the municipal election issue. Not really interested. As for politically smart......we will see at the next election, if he runs again.

Covid thing was long ago. Not aware of the legal issues and court issues on that. Wasn't even aware of some court overturn. Would have to look it up and find out the details at some point. He got elected again, so my understanding is the people felt on election day that his track record made him the most desirable.

Love the bike lane policy though.

So you're admitting you're nearly clueless about all the times he has overstepped his role but still defend the guy?

What did I say about arguing in good faith again?

Another fraud argument. I bet the vast majority of people in Ontario would not know the details would not remember the details of nurses during Covid(honestly ask a group of them for exacting details such as what percent was offered). Then ask more random people about the legalities of the municipal election issue.

It is nice that you have been madly searching over the last few days for items to discuss. The bottom line.....the vast majority of people don't care and voted for him.

He gets defense because the alternatives are much worse.

And those bike lanes that were to replace road lanes were stopped.

What was my “fraudulent” argument?


You’ve moved the goalposts so many times I can’t even keep track of your original point?

Pelmet do you even live in Toronto?

[pelmet]

So you're admitting you're nearly clueless about all the times he has overstepped his role but still defend the guy?

What did I say about arguing in good faith again?

Another fraud argument. I bet the vast majority of people in Ontario would not know the details would not remember the details of nurses during Covid(honestly ask a group of them for exacting details such as what percent was offered). Then ask more random people about the legalities of the municipal election issue.

It is nice that you have been madly searching over the last few days for items to discuss. The bottom line.....the vast majority of people don't care and voted for him.

He gets defense because the alternatives are much worse.

And those bike lanes that were to replace road lanes were stopped.

What was my “fraudulent” argument?


You’ve moved the goalposts so many times I can’t even keep track of your original point?

Pelmet do you even live in Toronto?

Making the statement that suggesting that defending the guy is not credible with the reason being because one is not aware of obscure issues from several years back that were not major news stories and is a fraud argument. (By the way, in reality, I have been stating repeatedly my belief that he is still the least worst of the leaders and political parties).

If you don’t have the capability to track the original point by simply taking a few seconds to refer to it, then it makes a clear statement about your intellectual capability(but in reality, is just another in a long list of fraud statements that one sees on both sides of the political spectrum that destroy credibility).

The original statement by me focused on the hypocrisy of those politicized critics with example given.You have subsequently brought up a variety of other subjects that most people are not aware of and then accuse me of changing the goalposts.Typical strategy on the left(but happens from others as well)…..accuse the other person of what you are doing.

Now the latest goalpost changing(from the person complaining about goalpost changing)……..where the person you are debating lives.

Folks....I have been watching politics for a long time. One of the most important lessons to be learned is that no matter who is in power, there will be controversies(although there were very few with Harper), so vote based on policy and ignore most of the controversies unless they are something truly significant. Overall, trying to be unbiased, I tend to believe that there is a valid argument for a larger province having a business aircraft of some sort(or chartering). Ontario and Quebec could probably use two types for gravel airports or longer range trips.

Suggestion…..we both move on to other threads as the aviation element has been left behind.

[lostav8r]

Another fraud argument. I bet the vast majority of people in Ontario would not know the details would not remember the details of nurses during Covid(honestly ask a group of them for exacting details such as what percent was offered). Then ask more random people about the legalities of the municipal election issue.

It is nice that you have been madly searching over the last few days for items to discuss. The bottom line.....the vast majority of people don't care and voted for him.

He gets defense because the alternatives are much worse.

And those bike lanes that were to replace road lanes were stopped.

What was my “fraudulent” argument?


You’ve moved the goalposts so many times I can’t even keep track of your original point?

Pelmet do you even live in Toronto?

Making the statement that suggesting that defending the guy is not credible with the reason being because one is not aware of obscure issues from several years back that were not major news stories and is a fraud argument. (By the way, in reality, I have been stating repeatedly my belief that he is still the least worst of the leaders and political parties).

If you don’t have the capability to track the original point by simply taking a few seconds to refer to it, then it makes a clear statement about your intellectual capability(but in reality, is just another in a long list of fraud statements that one sees on both sides of the political spectrum that destroy credibility).

The original statement by me focused on the hypocrisy of those politicized critics with example given.You have subsequently brought up a variety of other subjects that most people are not aware of and then accuse me of changing the goalposts.Typical strategy on the left(but happens from others as well)…..accuse the other person of what you are doing.

Now the latest goalpost changing(from the person complaining about goalpost changing)……..where the person you are debating lives.

Folks....I have been watching politics for a long time. One of the most important lessons to be learned is that no matter who is in power, there will be controversies(although there were very few with Harper), so vote based on policy and ignore most of the controversies unless they are something truly significant. Overall, trying to be unbiased, I tend to believe that there is a valid argument for a larger province having a business aircraft of some sort(or chartering). Ontario and Quebec could probably use two types for gravel airports or longer range trips.

Suggestion…..we both move on to other threads as the aviation element has been left behind.

Pelmet, I'm asking what your original point was because I don't want to put words in your mouth, not because I'm incapable of following the subject, and as a gesture of kindness you call me intellectually slow.

I'm trying to say this in the least argumentative way I can. I originally replied because I felt like you made a strawman argument when it came to people who don't like Ford.

Your feeling was that every politician is a hypocrite, and therefore he's no different. I can agree at some level but I think the level at which he's exhibiting these behaviors is a lot worse than politicians of the past.

As for asking where you live, I feel the various levels of government should not overstep. Yes he can do whatever he wants to the lower levels but he has to have a damn good reason.

I constantly see people WHO DO NOT LIVE IN THE AREAS in question complain about changes the mayor or local politicians did to improve the lives of people who actually live in an area. I don't want to start an argument about bike lanes but you can not effectively move people around in the 2020's with a 1960's mindset. The downtown sections of bloor have more bikes than cars every day. The changes made also make everyone safer (cyclists, drivers, pedestrians)

[‘Bob’]

“ although there were very few with Harper”

Yeah… just fighting with the Supreme Court to remove election donor caps so his cronies could buy elections.

Fighting with the Supreme Court to keep a Canadian citizen extrajudicially incarcerated without charges or trial.

Fighting with the Supreme Court to ban religious expression.

Dispersing peaceful protestors not with frozen bank accounts under the Emergencies Act weeks after the Ottawa Police didn’t do their jobs.. but mere hours later with tear gas and rubber bullets.

Muzzling scientists that keep muddying his Christofascist agenda.

But I digress…..

[Old fella]

“ although there were very few with Harper”

Yeah… just fighting with the Supreme Court to remove election donor caps so his cronies could buy elections.

Fighting with the Supreme Court to keep a Canadian citizen extrajudicially incarcerated without charges or trial.

Fighting with the Supreme Court to ban religious expression.

Dispersing peaceful protestors not with frozen bank accounts under the Emergencies Act weeks after the Ottawa Police didn’t do their jobs.. but mere hours later with tear gas and rubber bullets.

Muzzling scientists that keep muddying his Christofascist agenda.

But I digress…..

You missed out( not born then)on the juicy ‘60s stuff notably the Munsinger episode as she gave her services to members of Diefenbaker’s ministers of note was one leg Pierre S. Quite a calamity especially with CBC reporter Larry Zolf who ole Pierre clopped with his cane on his doorstep. Great comedy

[lostav8r]

“ although there were very few with Harper”

Yeah… just fighting with the Supreme Court to remove election donor caps so his cronies could buy elections.

Fighting with the Supreme Court to keep a Canadian citizen extrajudicially incarcerated without charges or trial.

Fighting with the Supreme Court to ban religious expression.

Dispersing peaceful protestors not with frozen bank accounts under the Emergencies Act weeks after the Ottawa Police didn’t do their jobs.. but mere hours later with tear gas and rubber bullets.

Muzzling scientists that keep muddying his Christofascist agenda.

But I digress…..

It’s pretty hilarious that the reality check” guy calls facts a random piece of trivia when he’s called out

Literally asked him his side so I don’t strawman the guy and he calls me slow for giving him the courtesy of not assuming!

[pelmet]

“ although there were very few with Harper”

Yeah… just fighting with the Supreme Court to remove election donor caps so his cronies could buy elections.

Fighting with the Supreme Court to keep a Canadian citizen extrajudicially incarcerated without charges or trial.

Fighting with the Supreme Court to ban religious expression.

Dispersing peaceful protestors not with frozen bank accounts under the Emergencies Act weeks after the Ottawa Police didn’t do their jobs.. but mere hours later with tear gas and rubber bullets.

Muzzling scientists that keep muddying his Christofascist agenda.

But I digress…..

Many of us were quite happy that Harper did his best to keep a terrorist out.

Rubber bullets and tear gas. Are you talking about the G20 protest where the Toronto police were criticized. Did that have anything to do with Harper. I hope Bob is not making more fraud arguments like this one that I called him out on recently....

viewtopic.php?p=1355111#p1355111

Unfortunately folks, Bob's credibility is shot as he just makes stuff up. You know when the fascism cries come out that they have that derangement system we used to talk about prior to Trump....Harper derangement syndrome.

[pelmet]

Your feeling was that every politician is a hypocrite, and therefore he's no different. I can agree at some level but I think the level at which he's exhibiting these behaviors is a lot worse than politicians of the past.

I am happy to agree with you if it is the truth that his behaviours(if we can actually agree on a definition) are "a lot worse than politicians of the past".
But you provide no evidence. Only that you, a likely partisan like me, feel that way. Partisans usually have plenty of bias.

But.....we could ask, who is a well-known past politician in Canada from the other side of the political spectrum that was in power for much of the same time as Ford? Answer....Justin Trudeau. You could start a list for both. Or.....trying to be balanced....the premier of Quebec. Could be close.

[lostav8r]

Your feeling was that every politician is a hypocrite, and therefore he's no different. I can agree at some level but I think the level at which he's exhibiting these behaviors is a lot worse than politicians of the past.

I am happy to agree with you if it is the truth that his behaviours(if we can actually agree on a definition) are "a lot worse than politicians of the past".
But you provide no evidence. Only that you, a likely partisan like me, feel that way. Partisans usually have plenty of bias.

But.....we could ask, who is a well-known past politician in Canada from the other side of the political spectrum that was in power for much of the same time as Ford? Answer....Justin Trudeau. You could start a list for both. Or.....trying to be balanced....the premier of Quebec. Could be close.

Like I've said already, I understand all politicians are full of crap, and many have their own motivations and agendas.

There is a lot to criticize Doug for in my mind, and I'm always going to call out the guy who says he won't do something if he ends up doing it!
I get everyone is a hypocrite at times but if I guy keeps saying "he's honest" "respect the taxpayer" I'm going to call it out when the guy ends up being full of shit!

He campaigned in 2018 on lowering debt, and reckless spending. He slaps "respect for the taxpayer" whenever he can.

Even the conservative think tank the Fraiser Institute calls him out!

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/comment ... less-wynne

But aside from the Budget, he's using a lot of levers no previous government in Ontario has! The notwithstanding clause is like blowing the fire bottle. It's your last resort and ideally should never be used. I'm aware it's been used in other provinces but I'm judging him to the politicians of Ontario.

We found out about the jet and a ton of other issues through FOI requests, he's trying to heavily restrict these types of requests. No premier has tried to restrict these requests from what I could find.

From what I could dig up, unless the province was providing direct funding for something (Ex transit) they didn't interfere with day to day operations of the city. Doug keeps playing Mayor of Toronto when he has a whole province to govern.

These are some of the "yardsticks" I use to compare him to past premiers. I have plenty of issues with the federal government as well but I don't think they're relevant in a thread about Ontario.

[pelmet]

Bit busy. Will respond later.

[Inverted2]

I don’t care for Doug Ford much. Especially how he handled the scamdemic or his drama queen TDS episodes. He’s a liberal in a blue suit but he’s the least of all evils when you compare him to the commie NDP or the liberal ladies….Bonnie Crosbie or Kathleen Wynne?

[lostav8r]

I don’t care for Doug Ford much. Especially how he handled the scamdemic or his drama queen TDS episodes. He’s a liberal in a blue suit but he’s the least of all evils when you compare him to the commie NDP or the liberal ladies….Bonnie Crosbie or Kathleen Wynne?

What would you say is liberal about him?

He's cut healthcare, cut sick days
cut police accountability letting convicted officers sit on payroll for years
FOI, education, eliminated plate fees with no plan to recoup that money (it paid for something like half the highway mx budget)
cut municipal seats
cut conservation areas
doesn't show up for consultations in parliament
downloaded development charges to the cities to save his developer friends
tried to cut the greenbelt, the list goes on...

He has made some good moves IMO, he's let pharmacists prescribe for over a dozen conditions, he at least pretends to care about the north and is investing in highway 11/17

For the most part he's using the conservative playbook.

[pelmet]

Your feeling was that every politician is a hypocrite, and therefore he's no different. I can agree at some level but I think the level at which he's exhibiting these behaviors is a lot worse than politicians of the past.

I am happy to agree with you if it is the truth that his behaviours(if we can actually agree on a definition) are "a lot worse than politicians of the past".
But you provide no evidence. Only that you, a likely partisan like me, feel that way. Partisans usually have plenty of bias.

But.....we could ask, who is a well-known past politician in Canada from the other side of the political spectrum that was in power for much of the same time as Ford? Answer....Justin Trudeau. You could start a list for both. Or.....trying to be balanced....the premier of Quebec. Could be close.

Like I've said already, I understand all politicians are full of crap, and many have their own motivations and agendas.

There is a lot to criticize Doug for in my mind, and I'm always going to call out the guy who says he won't do something if he ends up doing it!
I get everyone is a hypocrite at times but if I guy keeps saying "he's honest" "respect the taxpayer" I'm going to call it out when the guy ends up being full of shit!

He campaigned in 2018 on lowering debt, and reckless spending. He slaps "respect for the taxpayer" whenever he can.

Even the conservative think tank the Fraiser Institute calls him out!

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/comment ... less-wynne

But aside from the Budget, he's using a lot of levers no previous government in Ontario has! The notwithstanding clause is like blowing the fire bottle. It's your last resort and ideally should never be used. I'm aware it's been used in other provinces but I'm judging him to the politicians of Ontario.

We found out about the jet and a ton of other issues through FOI requests, he's trying to heavily restrict these types of requests. No premier has tried to restrict these requests from what I could find.

From what I could dig up, unless the province was providing direct funding for something (Ex transit) they didn't interfere with day to day operations of the city. Doug keeps playing Mayor of Toronto when he has a whole province to govern.

These are some of the "yardsticks" I use to compare him to past premiers. I have plenty of issues with the federal government as well but I don't think they're relevant in a thread about Ontario.

I have to laugh at the fraud arguments from lost Aviator(as I have been already stating they are).

He accuses me in this thread of moving the goalposts many times. Then he says, in regard to Ford being a hypocrite.....the level at which he's exhibiting these behaviors is a lot worse than politicians of the past. So what do I do? I simply bring up the name Justin Trudeau as a politician of the past. But I do feel slightly bad for embarrassing him with such an easy shootdown, so I give him a let and suggest making a comparison of hypocrite premier statements with a similar size province right next door(Quebec) and a premier in the same era. Well, guess what, Lost Aviator changes the goalposts himself and now says that we have to base it only on Ontario politicians. That is not what you said initially. You changed the goalposts.

With regard to Toronto, it is a big part of the Ontario economy. Of course he is going to be involved in it when foolish decisions are being made, and he is doing a way better job that the liberals and NDP would. Right now, he is finally taking on the Nimby's who move downtown and claim Toronto's economy by whining about airport noise(that actually barely exists). He is slowing down their massive waste on bike lanes that create mass congestion.

You accused Ford of cutting conservation areas. I looked it up and I see am amalgamation of 36 conservation authorities to 9. Is there something wrong with this or more misleading arguments? By the way, how many conservation areas do we need. It seems like no matter how many we have, they are announcing more. The government expropriated mass amounts of people's land decades ago for the Pickering airport and now it is some sort of conservation area. Now they are trying it again in Ontario for a high speed rail(boondoggle in my opinion) that will likely cost a 100 billion dollars of taxpayer money. People resent this sort of thing. But we hear conservation, conservation from certain parties and if you don't support it, you are a bad person.

Ford cut municipal seats. Are we supposed to care about all these taxpayer funded people, who quite likely spend a political career figuring out how to spend taxpayer money on stuff most would rather not have it spent on. We get a simple statement of cuts to healthcare. Too bad Lost aviator doesn't mention Ontario liberal healthcare cuts(search for Ontario liberals cut healthcare 2016). Just more fraud arguments. People don't care if Ford shows up for whatever consultations you are concerned about in parliament. As if that never happened before.

As I have mentioned multiple times, he has hypocrisy and scandals but its the same old, same old with every party, so irrelevant. Vote on party policies instead.

You accuse him of gutting revenues and ballooning debt. Well the left increases taxes over and over and also balloons the debt just as much. Ford has at least not raised taxes which is a better record than the liberals. Below is a link to record of his liberal opponent in the last election. A huge tax and spend history. So with the liberals and NDP, they spend that much more and raise the debt.

https://www.taxpayer.com/newsroom/is-cr ... d-liberal-

I'll take Ford thank you very much and so do the people of Ontario over and over because from a provincial point of view, they have stopped being fooled by the lost aviator types. Why?.....because as I have said multiple times, they believe that the other parties are much worse options overall.

So, you can end your specific gripes(most of which are not worth investigating because you have harmed your credibility). I suggest you contact the party you vote for and get them to come up with platforms that the majority of people want for the province. Unfortunately, you may not be happy with that.

Meanwhile, I see on another thread that you are trying to get a job up north and your flying career going but are having difficulty with a lack of quick movement in the industry. Well, we had a decade of lost opportunity in this country because of the parties you support. Going back in time, Canada went through the Great Recession with much less economic turbulence that other countries at that time because of our booming energy industry that created a lot of wealth even in tougher times(I flew up north during the recession to a large number of natural resources location, both proposed and in existence). It was great opportunity with just as great memories. While I had moved on to bigger and better things, that benefit slowed way down with your votes, and while the legacy of previous governments both liberal and conservative still provide financial support to the country in terms of revenues, the highly paid construction jobs and all that goes with it have fallen away and that effects much of the economy, including aviation.

To quote an AI search(associated with the federal liberal/NDP era): "An April 2026 RBC report highlighted that over $1 trillion in investment exited Canada between 2015 and 2024, marking the largest capital exodus in the country's history. The report notes that for every dollar of foreign investment entering Canada, two dollars left, resulting in a significant investment deficit over that decade." These parties on the left are economically destructive.

For a long time(over two decades) I warned people on various other forums of the dangers of voting liberal/NDP. Bob's fascist comment in an earlier reply is a typical response from the left. Many were fooled by the Bob's of the world and now, crime is way up, hospital waits are way up, standard of living is down, housing costs are way up(due to mass immigration) and according to this mainstream job ad, even if you are looked at for a job, you can see who the preference will be given to(last paragraph).

viewtopic.php?p=1355393&hilit=saskatchewan#p1355393

These are items that are a lot more important to people than whether or not Ford cut some municipal seats or showed up to a parliamentary consultation.

All I can say is.... you voted for your current career opportunities.

[lostav8r]

I am happy to agree with you if it is the truth that his behaviours(if we can actually agree on a definition) are "a lot worse than politicians of the past".
But you provide no evidence. Only that you, a likely partisan like me, feel that way. Partisans usually have plenty of bias.

But.....we could ask, who is a well-known past politician in Canada from the other side of the political spectrum that was in power for much of the same time as Ford? Answer....Justin Trudeau. You could start a list for both. Or.....trying to be balanced....the premier of Quebec. Could be close.

Like I've said already, I understand all politicians are full of crap, and many have their own motivations and agendas.

There is a lot to criticize Doug for in my mind, and I'm always going to call out the guy who says he won't do something if he ends up doing it!
I get everyone is a hypocrite at times but if I guy keeps saying "he's honest" "respect the taxpayer" I'm going to call it out when the guy ends up being full of shit!

He campaigned in 2018 on lowering debt, and reckless spending. He slaps "respect for the taxpayer" whenever he can.

Even the conservative think tank the Fraiser Institute calls him out!

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/comment ... less-wynne

But aside from the Budget, he's using a lot of levers no previous government in Ontario has! The notwithstanding clause is like blowing the fire bottle. It's your last resort and ideally should never be used. I'm aware it's been used in other provinces but I'm judging him to the politicians of Ontario.

We found out about the jet and a ton of other issues through FOI requests, he's trying to heavily restrict these types of requests. No premier has tried to restrict these requests from what I could find.

From what I could dig up, unless the province was providing direct funding for something (Ex transit) they didn't interfere with day to day operations of the city. Doug keeps playing Mayor of Toronto when he has a whole province to govern.

These are some of the "yardsticks" I use to compare him to past premiers. I have plenty of issues with the federal government as well but I don't think they're relevant in a thread about Ontario.

I have to laugh at the fraud arguments from lost Aviator(as I have been already stating they are).

I am accused in this thread of moving the goalposts many times. Then, the same person says, in regard to Ford being a hypocrite, that level at which he's exhibiting these behaviors is a lot worse than politicians of the past. So what do I do? I simply bring up the name Justin Trudeau as a politician of the past. But I do feel slightly bad for embarrassing him with that easy shootdown, so I give him a let and suggest making a comparison of hypocrite statements with a similar size province right next door(Quebec) and a premier in the same era. Well, guess what, Lost Aviator changes the goal posts himself and now says that we have to change it to only Ontario politicians. That is not what you said initially.

Toronto is a big part of Ontario by the way. Of course he is going to be involved and he is doing a way better job that the liberals and NDP would. Right now, he is finally taking on the Nimby's who move downtown and claim its economy by whining about airport noise(that barely exists). He is slowing down their massive waste on bike lanes that create mass congestion.

You accused him of cutting conservation areas. I looked it up and I see am amalgamation of 36 conservation authorities to 9. Is there something wrong with this or more misleading arguments? How many conservation areas dop we need. It seems like no matter how many we have, they are announcing more. The government expropriated mass amounts of people lands decades ago for the Pickering airport and now it is some sort of conservation area. Now they are trying it again in Ontario for a high speed rail(boondoggle in my opinion) that will likely cost a 100 billion dollars of taxpayer money. People resent this sort of thing. But we hear conservation, conservation from certain parties and if you don't support it, you are a bad person.

He cut municipal seats. Are we supposed to care about all these taxpayer funded people, who quite likely spend a political career figuring out how to spend taxpayer money on stuff most would rather not have it spent on. We get a simple statement of cuts to healthcare. Too bad Lost aviator doesn't mention Ontario liberal healthcare cuts(search for ontario liberals cut healthcare 2016). Just more fraud arguments. People don't care if he shows up for whatever consultations you are concerned about in parliament. As if that never happened before.

As I have mentioned multiple times, he has hypocrisy and scandals but its the same old, same old with every party, so irrelevant. Vote on party policies instead.

You accuse him of gutting revenues and ballooning debt. Well the left increases taxes over and over and also balloons the debt. Ford has at least not raised tyaxes which is a better record than the liberals. Here is a link to record of his liberal opponent in the last election. Tax and spend. So with the liberals and NDP, they spend that much more and raise the debt.

https://www.taxpayer.com/newsroom/is-cr ... d-liberal-

I'll take Ford thank you very much and so do the people of Ontario over and over because from a provincial point of view, they have stopped being fooled by the lost aviator types. Why?.....because as I have said multiple times, the other parties are much worse options overall.

So, you can end your specific gripes(most of which are not worth investigating because you have harmed your credibility). I suggest you contact the party you vote for and get them to come up with platforms that the majority of people want for the province. Unfortunately, you may not be happy with that.

Meanwhile, I see on another thread that you are trying to get a job up north and the career going but are having difficulty with a lack of quick movement in the industry. Well, we had a decade of lost opportunity in this country because of the parties you support. Going back in time, Canada went through the Great Recession with much less economic turbulence that other countries at the time because of our booming energy industry that created a lot of wealth even in tougher times(I flew up north during the recession to a large number of natural resources location, both proposed and in existence). It was great opportunity with just as great memories. While I had moved on to bigger and better things, that benefit slowed way down with your votes, and while the legacy of previous governments both liberal and conservative still provide financial support in terms of revenues, the highly paid construction jobs and all that goes with it have fallen away and that effects much of the economy, including aviation.

To quote an AI search(associated with the federal liberal/NDP era): "An April 2026 RBC report highlighted that over $1 trillion in investment exited Canada between 2015 and 2024, marking the largest capital exodus in the country's history. The report notes that for every dollar of foreign investment entering Canada, two dollars left, resulting in a significant investment deficit over that decade." These parties on the left are economically destructive.

For a long time(over two decades) I warned people on various other forums of the dangers of voting liberal/NDP. Bob's fascist comment in an earlier reply is a typical response. Now crime is way up, hospital waits are way up, standard of living is down, housing costs are way up(due to mass immigration) and according to this mainstream job ad, even if you are looked at for a job, you can see who the preference will be given to(last paragraph).

viewtopic.php?p=1355393&hilit=saskatchewan#p1355393

These are items that are a lot more important to people than whether or not Ford cut some municipal seats or showed up to a parliamentary consultation.

All I can say is.... you voted for your current career opportunities.

Pelmet you clearly don’t actually care about a productive back and forth, you only respond to “win” you strawman basically all of my points if you’re not purposefully misunderstanding them, you attack other posters and constantly bring up credibility on an anonymous shitposting forum.

I ask you to state your original point so I’m not strawmaning your argument and call me slow!

Any hard facts that are brought up come back with whataboutism.