How long is ramp to flying at sykcare?

[philaviate]

The other thing to consider is the opportunity loss by wasting time on the ramp. You're earning a pittance, and every week spent on the ramp is a week not gaining seniority and flying hours which means a week less in the top end of the career where you're earning a lot.

Many people would actually be financially better off by spending money time building quickly, and then getting a real flying job at 4-500hrs or whatever, rather than working two years at minimum wage.
The money spent on time building is less than the salary difference between ramping and a half decent 500hr flying job.
Plus it breaks the abusive cycle this industry desperately needs to end.

[lostav8r]

The other thing to consider is the opportunity loss by wasting time on the ramp. You're earning a pittance, and every week spent on the ramp is a week not gaining seniority and flying hours which means a week less in the top end of the career where you're earning a lot.

Many people would actually be financially better off by spending money time building quickly, and then getting a real flying job at 4-500hrs or whatever, rather than working two years at minimum wage.
The money spent on time building is less than the salary difference between ramping and a half decent 500hr flying job.
Plus it breaks the abusive cycle this industry desperately needs to end.

I considered this pathway but looking at some guys who did a similar thing (build to 500 hours in 172's on their own dime)

It seems they are also having issues finding a first job as well

[philaviate]

The other thing to consider is the opportunity loss by wasting time on the ramp. You're earning a pittance, and every week spent on the ramp is a week not gaining seniority and flying hours which means a week less in the top end of the career where you're earning a lot.

Many people would actually be financially better off by spending money time building quickly, and then getting a real flying job at 4-500hrs or whatever, rather than working two years at minimum wage.
The money spent on time building is less than the salary difference between ramping and a half decent 500hr flying job.
Plus it breaks the abusive cycle this industry desperately needs to end.

I considered this pathway but looking at some guys who did a similar thing (build to 500 hours in 172's on their own dime)

It seems they are also having issues finding a first job as well

Sure, but they likely would be in the same boat ramping, but working a crap job, and terrible pay, possibly in a bad location, with less flying hours and still only working toward the first flying job.

The market is flooded with low time pilots right now, and the economy is in the toilet. But I'm sure the gender neutral bathrooms make up for it. Or maybe turning the country into a third world slum filled with uber drivers is worth the economic pain. But it doesn't help there are thousands of work permit foreign student pilots who are here trying for those same low time jobs.

But one thing is for sure, at 500hrs you stand a chance with a lot of jobs. Some are pretty good, I was making $100k+ at 500hrs, granted as a second career which helped. At 250hrs you stand little chance outside of a few companies. 500hrs really is a milestone that helps a lot. I'd rather spend $20k getting hours, even if i had to work another non aviation job, than take a job paying $36k in terrible conditions for two years and still be no closer to the good flying gigs. But maybe I'm special that I don't think I need two years experience to fuel or load a plane or shovel snow, I learned those the first day at every job I've had in aviation when I was given the quick new hire tour.

[digits_]

The other thing to consider is the opportunity loss by wasting time on the ramp. You're earning a pittance, and every week spent on the ramp is a week not gaining seniority and flying hours which means a week less in the top end of the career where you're earning a lot.

Many people would actually be financially better off by spending money time building quickly, and then getting a real flying job at 4-500hrs or whatever, rather than working two years at minimum wage.
The money spent on time building is less than the salary difference between ramping and a half decent 500hr flying job.
Plus it breaks the abusive cycle this industry desperately needs to end.

I considered this pathway but looking at some guys who did a similar thing (build to 500 hours in 172's on their own dime)

It seems they are also having issues finding a first job as well

It depends on what you do in those 500 hours. Your goal is not necessarily/just spending money to get hours or experience. You mainly want to set yourself apart. Spend those 500 hours flying to those northern places where you want to apply for a job. Do things that are a conversation starter. No matter what you do, it's unlikely anyone in a hiring position will be impressed with your 500 hours, but if you can start a conversation, that might help you a lot.
Floats, tail wheel, perhaps aerobatics, long distance flights (as in the the coast to coast type). Or perhaps you flew to brazil or europe. Things like that.
Success it not guaranteed, but you'll definitely have a blast doing it. But it will require some extra money, which you won't get by ramping.

[lostav8r]

The other thing to consider is the opportunity loss by wasting time on the ramp. You're earning a pittance, and every week spent on the ramp is a week not gaining seniority and flying hours which means a week less in the top end of the career where you're earning a lot.

Many people would actually be financially better off by spending money time building quickly, and then getting a real flying job at 4-500hrs or whatever, rather than working two years at minimum wage.
The money spent on time building is less than the salary difference between ramping and a half decent 500hr flying job.
Plus it breaks the abusive cycle this industry desperately needs to end.

I considered this pathway but looking at some guys who did a similar thing (build to 500 hours in 172's on their own dime)

It seems they are also having issues finding a first job as well

It depends on what you do in those 500 hours. Your goal is not necessarily/just spending money to get hours or experience. You mainly want to set yourself apart. Spend those 500 hours flying to those northern places where you want to apply for a job. Do things that are a conversation starter. No matter what you do, it's unlikely anyone in a hiring position will be impressed with your 500 hours, but if you can start a conversation, that might help you a lot.
Floats, tail wheel, perhaps aerobatics, long distance flights (as in the the coast to coast type). Or perhaps you flew to brazil or europe. Things like that.
Success it not guaranteed, but you'll definitely have a blast doing it. But it will require some extra money, which you won't get by ramping.

I wish plane ownership wasn’t the price of a Ferrari! The few times I’ve tried to do a long distance trip. The school doesn’t really wanna land out for more than a two hour slot unless it’s a night cross country to major airports with all the weather planning printed out!

I get what you’re saying, though getting a rating or tail wheel would really help someone stand out

[khedrei]

You said that you have the option to make captain level money in another industry. Im not sure why youre here asking this or why this back and forth is even happening. Take that job and dont look back. You will save yourself years of garbage work like what was discussed in here already plus the garbage salary and disrespect that goes with it.

With captain money you can afford your own plane and you already have the ratings so you can fly easily for fun and travel.

I can tell you that once you start flying for a living, the fun disappears for most people. The only thing left is the money and if you already have that on the table I dont know what youre waiting for.

I love every flight I take in my own plane and every trip I plan. I am always dissapointed when I can't fly it enough because im flying for someone else.

[digits_]

I wish plane ownership wasn’t the price of a Ferrari!

It really doesn't have to be. You can find an old junker looking type airplane for 40k - 80k and fly it for a few hundred hours, sell it and get half (or more) back. Is there a risk if something breaks and it can get expensive? Yes. Depending on the type you buy, it would still have some value if an engine blows.

You won't find a c172 for 40k, but other vfr aircraft should be possible. Doesn't necessarily have to be certified either. Buying block time on the private market might be another option

The few times I’ve tried to do a long distance trip. The school doesn’t really wanna land out for more than a two hour slot unless it’s a night cross country to major airports with all the weather planning printed out!

There's more than one school in Canada. You can also buy blocktime or rent privately. Renting in the US is also a possibility. Perhaps you can find someone renting out a small twin? Get your 500 MPIC if you want to have a guaranteed job. Expensive as well yes. But it's an option.


But take a good look at this advice as well:

You said that you have the option to make captain level money in another industry. Im not sure why youre here asking this or why this back and forth is even happening. Take that job and dont look back. You will save yourself years of garbage work like what was discussed in here already plus the garbage salary and disrespect that goes with it.

With captain money you can afford your own plane and you already have the ratings so you can fly easily for fun and travel.

I can tell you that once you start flying for a living, the fun disappears for most people. The only thing left is the money and if you already have that on the table I dont know what youre waiting for.

I love every flight I take in my own plane and every trip I plan. I am always dissapointed when I can't fly it enough because im flying for someone else.

Flying privately is definitely something that can scratch your itch. Will you be flying multi engine jets? No. But that gets boring relatively quick as well. Flying when and where you want is a great feeling.

[pelmet]

If you live near a large city(actually, in many small towns as well - based on my area), you can build hours towing gliders and dropping parachutists. I did that to avoid hanging out in remote places for extended periods of time. Even at low total time.....tailwheel time set you out from most other time-building pilots at a place that has only tailwheel aircraft, especially if you have some good quality time. After I got my checkout is a C180 for skydivers, the local glider place took me on, no questions asked, even though it was only about 10-15 hours total tailwheel time at that time and perhaps 400 total time. No guarantee that things will work out the same for each situation, but that was how it worked for me. Meanwhile, it was a recession at that time and no hiring, so I patiently did my time-building.

To be honest, I would be hesitant to give up a good paying job for an aviation career unless the situation was that you could easily fall back into the original job or something similar(Doctor perhaps).

[lostav8r]

If you live near a large city(actually, in many small towns as well - based on my area), you can build hours towing gliders and dropping parachutists. I did that to avoid hanging out in remote places for extended periods of time. Even at low total time.....tailwheel time set you out from most other time-building pilots at a place that has only tailwheel aircraft, especially if you have some good quality time. After I got my checkout is a C180 for skydivers, the local glider place took me on, no questions asked, even though it was only about 10-15 hours total tailwheel time at that time and perhaps 400 total time. No guarantee that things will work out the same for each situation, but that was how it worked for me. Meanwhile, it was a recession at that time and no hiring, so I patiently did my time-building.

To be honest, I would be hesitant to give up a good paying job for an aviation career unless the situation was that you could easily fall back into the original job or something similar(Doctor perhaps).

You said that you have the option to make captain level money in another industry. Im not sure why youre here asking this or why this back and forth is even happening. Take that job and dont look back. You will save yourself years of garbage work like what was discussed in here already plus the garbage salary and disrespect that goes with it.

With captain money you can afford your own plane and you already have the ratings so you can fly easily for fun and travel.

I can tell you that once you start flying for a living, the fun disappears for most people. The only thing left is the money and if you already have that on the table I dont know what youre waiting for.

I love every flight I take in my own plane and every trip I plan. I am always dissapointed when I can't fly it enough because im flying for someone else.

Thanks to everyone for the heartfelt advice!

I’m having very strong second thoughts continuing in this path, everyone I know inside and outside of flying says you won’t feel fulfilled if you give up on your dream but I honestly can’t say for sure at this point

[khedrei]

If you live near a large city(actually, in many small towns as well - based on my area), you can build hours towing gliders and dropping parachutists. I did that to avoid hanging out in remote places for extended periods of time. Even at low total time.....tailwheel time set you out from most other time-building pilots at a place that has only tailwheel aircraft, especially if you have some good quality time. After I got my checkout is a C180 for skydivers, the local glider place took me on, no questions asked, even though it was only about 10-15 hours total tailwheel time at that time and perhaps 400 total time. No guarantee that things will work out the same for each situation, but that was how it worked for me. Meanwhile, it was a recession at that time and no hiring, so I patiently did my time-building.

To be honest, I would be hesitant to give up a good paying job for an aviation career unless the situation was that you could easily fall back into the original job or something similar(Doctor perhaps).

You said that you have the option to make captain level money in another industry. Im not sure why youre here asking this or why this back and forth is even happening. Take that job and dont look back. You will save yourself years of garbage work like what was discussed in here already plus the garbage salary and disrespect that goes with it.

With captain money you can afford your own plane and you already have the ratings so you can fly easily for fun and travel.

I can tell you that once you start flying for a living, the fun disappears for most people. The only thing left is the money and if you already have that on the table I dont know what youre waiting for.

I love every flight I take in my own plane and every trip I plan. I am always dissapointed when I can't fly it enough because im flying for someone else.

Thanks to everyone for the heartfelt advice!

I’m having very strong second thoughts continuing in this path, everyone I know inside and outside of flying says you won’t feel fulfilled if you give up on your dream but I honestly can’t say for sure at this point

It really depends what your dream is or how big of a dream it is. Is your dream very specific? Fly? Fly for a living? Fly for a living in a twin engine jet, long haul, as a captain, for a major airline? We can't answer these questions for you. Its a tough call on your part and might require some soul searching.

Was it cool to finally get into a jet and learn to fly it, and get upgraded? Yes I think it was. Was it cool to move up to bigger jets, yes. But that wears off fast and you are left with only the lifestyle and the money. Is it cool to fly turbopros into the arctic at 23 years old while you build time living in crap housing having fun in your time off with your co workers? I would say no because I didnt do it that way and I missed that route. I know of many who enjoyed that part of the grind but are glad its over.

You seem relatively young. I made a career switch in my 30s. My old job paid fairly well, (not captain money but pretty good) but the lifestyle was horrible. It was actually on the list of careers someone posted here. I already had a plane and flew for fun when I switched. I am thankful for the skills I have now to bring over to my private flying. If I didnt have them it likely would have made my private flying more challenging and stressful. But I did it so I can't say what it would have been like if I hadn't.

All I can say is that I dont love flying for a living as much as I thought I would. Its mostly the lifestyle more than the flying, so perhaps a different gig might work better but im sure id get tired of that too. Dont get me wrong, im glad i made the switch. Its better than sitting in an office, or crawling through attics, or lots of other crap. My life is good, and im way happier than ive ever been but the glamour wears off. I think most pilots would agree with me.

I can only speak from my position. If I had to work the crap jobs at my age I dont think I would. If I was 22... maybe. But with the current financial climate, thats a tough sell. I stand by my previous advice. If you can make captain money in another field that you think you'll enjoy, do it. Continue training and fly for fun. It really depends on what that job is, how much you'll like it, how often you'll get to fly private, etc.

You could always do that job for 10 years, bank money, fly for fun, then switch in your 30s like I did. Who knows what the industry will be like at that point.

Good luck to you.

[lostav8r]

If you live near a large city(actually, in many small towns as well - based on my area), you can build hours towing gliders and dropping parachutists. I did that to avoid hanging out in remote places for extended periods of time. Even at low total time.....tailwheel time set you out from most other time-building pilots at a place that has only tailwheel aircraft, especially if you have some good quality time. After I got my checkout is a C180 for skydivers, the local glider place took me on, no questions asked, even though it was only about 10-15 hours total tailwheel time at that time and perhaps 400 total time. No guarantee that things will work out the same for each situation, but that was how it worked for me. Meanwhile, it was a recession at that time and no hiring, so I patiently did my time-building.

To be honest, I would be hesitant to give up a good paying job for an aviation career unless the situation was that you could easily fall back into the original job or something similar(Doctor perhaps).

You said that you have the option to make captain level money in another industry. Im not sure why youre here asking this or why this back and forth is even happening. Take that job and dont look back. You will save yourself years of garbage work like what was discussed in here already plus the garbage salary and disrespect that goes with it.

With captain money you can afford your own plane and you already have the ratings so you can fly easily for fun and travel.

I can tell you that once you start flying for a living, the fun disappears for most people. The only thing left is the money and if you already have that on the table I dont know what youre waiting for.

I love every flight I take in my own plane and every trip I plan. I am always dissapointed when I can't fly it enough because im flying for someone else.

Thanks to everyone for the heartfelt advice!

I’m having very strong second thoughts continuing in this path, everyone I know inside and outside of flying says you won’t feel fulfilled if you give up on your dream but I honestly can’t say for sure at this point

It really depends what your dream is or how big of a dream it is. Is your dream very specific? Fly? Fly for a living? Fly for a living in a twin engine jet, long haul, as a captain, for a major airline? We can't answer these questions for you. Its a tough call on your part and might require some soul searching.

Was it cool to finally get into a jet and learn to fly it, and get upgraded? Yes I think it was. Was it cool to move up to bigger jets, yes. But that wears off fast and you are left with only the lifestyle and the money. Is it cool to fly turbopros into the arctic at 23 years old while you build time living in crap housing having fun in your time off with your co workers? I would say no because I didnt do it that way and I missed that route. I know of many who enjoyed that part of the grind but are glad its over.

You seem relatively young. I made a career switch in my 30s. My old job paid fairly well, (not captain money but pretty good) but the lifestyle was horrible. It was actually on the list of careers someone posted here. I already had a plane and flew for fun when I switched. I am thankful for the skills I have now to bring over to my private flying. If I didnt have them it likely would have made my private flying more challenging and stressful. But I did it so I can't say what it would have been like if I hadn't.

All I can say is that I dont love flying for a living as much as I thought I would. Its mostly the lifestyle more than the flying, so perhaps a different gig might work better but im sure id get tired of that too. Dont get me wrong, im glad i made the switch. Its better than sitting in an office, or crawling through attics, or lots of other crap. My life is good, and im way happier than ive ever been but the glamour wears off. I think most pilots would agree with me.

I can only speak from my position. If I had to work the crap jobs at my age I dont think I would. If I was 22... maybe. But with the current financial climate, thats a tough sell. I stand by my previous advice. If you can make captain money in another field that you think you'll enjoy, do it. Continue training and fly for fun. It really depends on what that job is, how much you'll like it, how often you'll get to fly private, etc.

You could always do that job for 10 years, bank money, fly for fun, then switch in your 30s like I did. Who knows what the industry will be like at that point.

Good luck to you.

Thank you for sharing your story! I'm in my mid 30s and wanting to have kids some time between soon and eventually hence the back and forth.

With the current flying market there's a chance I go up north and 2 years later, I'm broke and still no closer to a flying position since I've seen a lot of false promises. Of course I'm looking at the most negative scenario though.

If you live near a large city(actually, in many small towns as well - based on my area), you can build hours towing gliders and dropping parachutists. I did that to avoid hanging out in remote places for extended periods of time. Even at low total time.....tailwheel time set you out from most other time-building pilots at a place that has only tailwheel aircraft, especially if you have some good quality time. After I got my checkout is a C180 for skydivers, the local glider place took me on, no questions asked, even though it was only about 10-15 hours total tailwheel time at that time and perhaps 400 total time. No guarantee that things will work out the same for each situation, but that was how it worked for me. Meanwhile, it was a recession at that time and no hiring, so I patiently did my time-building.

To be honest, I would be hesitant to give up a good paying job for an aviation career unless the situation was that you could easily fall back into the original job or something similar(Doctor perhaps).

Right now I'm flying a desk, but if I leave that industry I can't really come back. I'd pivot to a niche field where the pay is good but the work is very boring. And like I mentioned above I'm terrified of giving up my career and moving up somewhere for 2 years of broken promises as I've had similar things happen in my office job.

I actually called the local glider clubs and they said at best you'd get 20 hours a season would take decades to get to a competitive TT

[khedrei]

The aviation industry is in a tough spot right now. I know lots of people struggling to find entry level jobs. That wasn't true 2-3 years ago. This could go on for another 6-12 months. Or it could last a couple years or longer. No one really knows.

I wonder if there is a middle ground for you. If you pivot to the niche field, maybe you can find a part time job instructing and work it in with the full time gig? Part time instructing might be able to build you a couple hundred hours a year. You can keep the money coming in, perhaps start a family, and in 2 years you can regroup depending on what the industry is doing? If that is an option you would consider, see if you can build a relationship with a local school, or approach the school you trained at and see if they would take you on as an instructor? From your posts, I gather that you already have your CPL and MIFR? Add the instructor rating and see if you can land a gig doing that. But you have to want to instruct, or you wont really be happy.

I agree with your view of not trusting operators that promise ground to flight. Most do not deliver on their promises. I also would not want to move way up north by myself at your age for a non flying job if you want to start a family soon. I assume you have a significant other? What does she say?

[lostav8r]

The aviation industry is in a tough spot right now. I know lots of people struggling to find entry level jobs. That wasn't true 2-3 years ago. This could go on for another 6-12 months. Or it could last a couple years or longer. No one really knows.

I wonder if there is a middle ground for you. If you pivot to the niche field, maybe you can find a part time job instructing and work it in with the full time gig? Part time instructing might be able to build you a couple hundred hours a year. You can keep the money coming in, perhaps start a family, and in 2 years you can regroup depending on what the industry is doing? If that is an option you would consider, see if you can build a relationship with a local school, or approach the school you trained at and see if they would take you on as an instructor? From your posts, I gather that you already have your CPL and MIFR? Add the instructor rating and see if you can land a gig doing that. But you have to want to instruct, or you wont really be happy.

I agree with your view of not trusting operators that promise ground to flight. Most do not deliver on their promises. I also would not want to move way up north by myself at your age for a non flying job if you want to start a family soon. I assume you have a significant other? What does she say?

Again, I really appreciate you spending your time to give me advice for my situation!

The job is in a remote area, think mining type of field but without rotations, the nearest flight school is about seven hours away. I spoke to my CFI and he said they can’t guarantee a job and it would have to be full-time though it still might make sense to get the rating!

My partner has a job sorted for up there as well, so we would be able to buy a plane worst case if we end up staying! Keep my skills, fresh and all that!

[khedrei]

The aviation industry is in a tough spot right now. I know lots of people struggling to find entry level jobs. That wasn't true 2-3 years ago. This could go on for another 6-12 months. Or it could last a couple years or longer. No one really knows.

I wonder if there is a middle ground for you. If you pivot to the niche field, maybe you can find a part time job instructing and work it in with the full time gig? Part time instructing might be able to build you a couple hundred hours a year. You can keep the money coming in, perhaps start a family, and in 2 years you can regroup depending on what the industry is doing? If that is an option you would consider, see if you can build a relationship with a local school, or approach the school you trained at and see if they would take you on as an instructor? From your posts, I gather that you already have your CPL and MIFR? Add the instructor rating and see if you can land a gig doing that. But you have to want to instruct, or you wont really be happy.

I agree with your view of not trusting operators that promise ground to flight. Most do not deliver on their promises. I also would not want to move way up north by myself at your age for a non flying job if you want to start a family soon. I assume you have a significant other? What does she say?

Again, I really appreciate you spending your time to give me advice for my situation!

The job is in a remote area, think mining type of field but without rotations, the nearest flight school is about seven hours away. I spoke to my CFI and he said they can’t guarantee a job and it would have to be full-time though it still might make sense to get the rating!

My partner has a job sorted for up there as well, so we would be able to buy a plane worst case if we end up staying! Keep my skills, fresh and all that!

No problem. Happy to help. I've been there before when I was planning to make my career switch.

You seem like you have a good head on your shoulders and are trying to find the right path. If you and your partner can make decent money in that industry then getting your own aircraft with an airport nearby then wait to see how the industry unfolds in the next year or two might be a good option. Once you head up to the remote area you may decide that you are happy with the money but don't want to raise kids up there? Maybe you will realize the money is making you happy and you can raise the kids up there and you are happy flying for fun? Its really hard to say.

I don't know what you current financial situation is, or if this good job opportunity would still be available in a year or two. Making no money as an instructor or working ramp, or even a crap entry flying job can be a tough ride. Money isn't everything, but if you can't pay your basic bills, that can make for a lot of stress for you, and for your relationship. If the job is available down the road and you have a decent savings right now, getting a job as an instructor and trying to instruct full time might be a good option and if aviation is still in the toilet in a year or two maybe you can bail then and take this higher paying job. If the job is a one time offer, that's a tougher call. I can see why you are struggling to make that decision. I don't envy you having to make that decision.

I would prioritize things this way:
1. Make sure you can finance basic living for your and your family with your choice without incurring loads more debt.
2. Decide if all you need is basic living is all you need right now and can sacrifice for a chance at flying for a living down the road
3. Decide how important flying for a living is and see if you can stick it out. The timeline could be long.

Also, is your partner very supportive of you doing what you love and willing to help get you there? Are you both comfortable living apart for a while? Ask her what she thinks.

Keep the money timeline in mind that even once you find a job flying, you are still likely going to need 2-3 years building time before you will be getting an FO position at a corporate gig, or at a major airline and even then you will likely make around 80-90k, possibly a bit more at that point. Then you are looking at 3-4 more years before you can hit the low-mid 100's either as an FO at a big carrier or a new captain upgrade at a corporate gig. That is all probably best case scenario. I don't know what you meant by captain money, but if you and your partner can both make 200k right now with room for advancement in the future, it's a no brainer to me. But if flying is super important to you and a huge dream and you are willing to tough it out for 4+ years, all the power to you. Money isn't everything. Like someone else said, having your own plane might scratch that itch for you. Only you can decide that.

[pelmet]

People do make the career transition to flying in boom times. And boom times seem to always return(even after Covid which was the worst time ever).

Glider towing may not be a lot of hours but there is instructing on the side and waiting. That is when the jump to King Air followed by a company like Flair works…… in the middle of boom times when you have that 1000 hours(or maybe less based on recent years).

I had a doctor that went to the airlines but he timed it well and didn’t do the up north stuff.

Meanwhile, if you love flying that much, you had some good years involved in aviation while still making decent money and stayed financially secure(and avoided the ramp up north).

Like someone said above, a partial reason for me getting into commercial flying was so that I could have more confidence flying IFR privately(after a bit of a concerning flight many years ago).

TBH….. as much as I love aviation, some aspects can be very boring or just not fun, so it is not all wonderful.

[lostav8r]

People do make the career transition to flying in boom times. And boom times seem to always return(even after Covid which was the worst time ever).

Glider towing may not be a lot of hours but there is instructing on the side and waiting. That is when the jump to King Air followed by a company like Flair works…… in the middle of boom times when you have that 1000 hours(or maybe less based on recent years).

I had a doctor that went to the airlines but he timed it well and didn’t do the up north stuff.

Meanwhile, if you love flying that much, you had some good years involved in aviation while still making decent money and stayed financially secure(and avoided the ramp up north).

Like someone said above, a partial reason for me getting into commercial flying was so that I could have more confidence flying IFR privately(after a bit of a concerning flight many years ago).

TBH….. as much as I love aviation, some aspects can be very boring or just not fun, so it is not all wonderful.

If you're willing to share, I'm surprised you were flying IFR privately after getting a job. What was your use case, were you taking trips where the wx was bad enough you had to file?

[khedrei]

I file all the time privately. In fact I probably file more often than I dont. I've flown my Mooney from Toronto to Alaska, up to the Arctic, and through Arizona and Utah in the US as well as the east coast of Canada and the US. Not to mention dozens of trips bach and forth to the cottage.

It all depends on your objectives of flying privately. I do it mostly for travel. So maybe 75% travel, 25% for the $100 hamburger or other purpose.

[digits_]

Same here. Always IFR for private flying if possible. Much more relaxed in most cases. Usually for long(er) distance travelling.

[philaviate]

For all the naysayers here who seem to dislike flying I'd say they perhaps got into it for the wrong reason.
I've never had a bad day at work in any aviation job. I love every minute and would do it for free. The money and lifestyle is just a bonus.
I think some chase the airlines for the money, not because they want to fly, and then get the attitudes shown here.

This is my second career after decades in another. My only regret is when I was 18 I had to choose flying or my other career, and the other one just came about quicker so flying was just a hobby for 15+ years here and there.

Now I fly a gig with a schedule where I'm basically paid to be home. And then when I fly it is fun and enjoyable.

If flying is your passion, do it. To those complaining, I suspect they've not had another job that is real world to know how good they have it. I see that a lot in fellow pilots who have done aviation basically for all their jobs. They don't realise how easy and fulfilling it really is.

At your age, go fly, even if spending your own money to do so, and keep networking. You'll get a real flying job I bet quote easily. My first flying job was right seat in a turbine exactly because I wasn't a 21 year old kid. I got multiple good opportunities after that, with zero fence painting, and good money from day one.

If it's your dream. Do it. Make it happen. I've stumbled into more opportunities than I can take just by talking to people. I have also helped many friends get jobs too.

[TheMexicoLooter]

FOR FREE? HECK ILL PAY YOU TO FLY YOUR PLANES

[philaviate]

FOR FREE? HECK ILL PAY YOU TO FLY YOUR PLANES

But to reiterate a point, I wouldn't fly for free, no matter what the plane. It degrades the profession. Just like I won't paint your fence or shovel snow as "experience" to get a flying job.

[Dry Guy]

I love every minute and would do it for free.

Yet you go on a public aviation forum and post this. Why?

[philaviate]

I love every minute and would do it for free.

Yet you go on a public aviation forum and post this. Why?

What? There's no contradiction in telling someone else in a similar situation to me, a career change to aviation, to go do it and me saying I'm glad I did...

Are you only allowed here if you hate flying for a living?
????

[Me262]

Sounds more like a humiliation ritual than anything. Only in Canada are pilots degraded and disrespected to such a low level.

Mr. AI search, notice how every single one of those jobs still started in a relevant position to the job that they’re ending up in.

A resident doctor still works on patients, an articling student still works in an office and with legal documents, a conductor still sits inside the train.

Residents don’t clean toilets or wash the CEOS car, conductors don’t work as Carmen, Articling students don’t repair the office they work in etc.

There is no traditional path to becoming CEO for every industry so I’ll leave that one out

What moronic drivel, that ironically totally proves you wrong.

All those jobs describe a path doing entry level tasks WITHIN THEIR FIELD. How does painting a fence, shovelling snow, or loading bags relate to flying a plane?

It's an absolute joke that not only do these shitty ramp jobs exist for pilots, but pilots defend them.
Don't you realise if the start of the career wasn't absolute horse crap like it is now we wouldn't have some of the world's worst conditions at the top end of the career too?

I'm lucky that aviation was my second career, but if it wasn't I still wouldn't have degraded my profession by taking a shitty menial job completely unrelated to the career. It only takes one season of these dinosaurs being told to @#$! off and this nonsense ends for good.

This abuse will never stop until boomer dinosaurs like Buffalo Joe and TeePeeCreeper on these forums have finally disappeared from this industry. In no other country, or industry, you are a slave painting fences for minimum wage.

[pelmet]

Sounds more like a humiliation ritual than anything. Only in Canada are pilots degraded and disrespected to such a low level.

Mr. AI search, notice how every single one of those jobs still started in a relevant position to the job that they’re ending up in.

A resident doctor still works on patients, an articling student still works in an office and with legal documents, a conductor still sits inside the train.

Residents don’t clean toilets or wash the CEOS car, conductors don’t work as Carmen, Articling students don’t repair the office they work in etc.

There is no traditional path to becoming CEO for every industry so I’ll leave that one out

What moronic drivel, that ironically totally proves you wrong.

All those jobs describe a path doing entry level tasks WITHIN THEIR FIELD. How does painting a fence, shovelling snow, or loading bags relate to flying a plane?

It's an absolute joke that not only do these shitty ramp jobs exist for pilots, but pilots defend them.
Don't you realise if the start of the career wasn't absolute horse crap like it is now we wouldn't have some of the world's worst conditions at the top end of the career too?

I'm lucky that aviation was my second career, but if it wasn't I still wouldn't have degraded my profession by taking a shitty menial job completely unrelated to the career. It only takes one season of these dinosaurs being told to @#$! off and this nonsense ends for good.

This abuse will never stop until boomer dinosaurs like Buffalo Joe and TeePeeCreeper on these forums have finally disappeared from this industry. In no other country, or industry, you are a slave painting fences for minimum wage.

Didn't know that slaves got paid money. Canada must have the happiest slaves with a $17.00/hour wage. Maybe Joe pays more.

We have an A340 captain on this forum that worked for Buffalo....we should find out what his experience was.