altiplano wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2026 6:26 am
He wanted to go and choose his own food, the company was in violation of the collective agreement and inflexible on providing options, he made a goofy protest order to make a point. I don't read racism in it. Only the people that are combing everything with the goal to raise a capital case on identity and deploy their virtue do.
Guess it's only burgers and fries for white guys going forward.
There is absolutely nothing in the CA about choosing your own food. There were plenty of restaurants around the hotel where he could have purchased his fried chicken. It is not crew sched's or management's job to take food orders. Why you keep mentioning that is beyond me, as this was not a real food order.
This was the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to this guy.
Hotel location was in the collective agreement, that was violated which provoked this situation. Hotel locations for length of stay over a certain amount is important so guys aren't stuck out between an airport fence and a highway with a handful of mediocre often unhealthy choices and nothing to do other than sit in your hotel room.
altiplano wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2026 6:26 am
He wanted to go and choose his own food, the company was in violation of the collective agreement and inflexible on providing options, he made a goofy protest order to make a point. I don't read racism in it. Only the people that are combing everything with the goal to raise a capital case on identity and deploy their virtue do.
Guess it's only burgers and fries for white guys going forward.
There is absolutely nothing in the CA about choosing your own food. There were plenty of restaurants around the hotel where he could have purchased his fried chicken. It is not crew sched's or management's job to take food orders. Why you keep mentioning that is beyond me, as this was not a real food order.
This was the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to this guy.
Hotel location was in the collective agreement, that was violated which provoked this situation. Hotel locations for length of stay over a certain amount is important so guys aren't stuck out between an airport fence and a highway with a handful of mediocre often unhealthy choices and nothing to do other than sit in your hotel room.
Punishment doesn't fit the crime.
Pilots are held to a higher standard. You represent your airline, in good times and bad.
Punishment is well warranted because, again, you have to go out of your way to be racist. Nobody "provoked" him into saying something racist. Hotel location was also debunked. A light walk is too much for him?
The lengths and mental gymnastics you are going through to defend this guy (who others in here have reported as not a great dude) is impressive. Do you see yourself in him perhaps?
altiplano wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2026 7:17 am
Punishment doesn't fit the crime.
Perhaps.
Consider this though: if he doesn't think he said anything wrong, what's to stop him from saying similar things to passengers? Can you imagine the PR disaster for the airline?
---------- ADS -----------
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
altiplano wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2026 7:17 am
Hotel location was in the collective agreement, that was violated which provoked this situation. Hotel locations for length of stay over a certain amount is important so guys aren't stuck out between an airport fence and a highway with a handful of mediocre often unhealthy choices and nothing to do other than sit in your hotel room.
Punishment doesn't fit the crime.
As mentioned in the report, no hotels were available in that location. The guy was being a dick about it, and it probably wasn't the first time.
If you knew the guy the only thing that would surprise you is how long it took him to get fired. I wouldn’t hire him if he was the last pilot on earth. A reasonably competent pilot but probably the biggest arse I’ve had to work with. This was just the straw that broke the camels back.
CpnCrunch wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2026 10:48 am
As mentioned in the report, no hotels were available in that location. The guy was being a dick about it, and it probably wasn't the first time.
Exactly correct. I'm not defending the company, but sometimes their hands are tied too, as in this case. The correct thing to do in this case is to go for a ten minute walk and grab some food, and have some non alcoholic Bud Light beers for him and his friends, if he has any.
altiplano wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2026 6:26 am
He wanted to go and choose his own food, the company was in violation of the collective agreement and inflexible on providing options, he made a goofy protest order to make a point. I don't read racism in it. Only the people that are combing everything with the goal to raise a capital case on identity and deploy their virtue do.
Guess it's only burgers and fries for white guys going forward.
There is absolutely nothing in the CA about choosing your own food. There were plenty of restaurants around the hotel where he could have purchased his fried chicken. It is not crew sched's or management's job to take food orders. Why you keep mentioning that is beyond me, as this was not a real food order.
This was the straw that broke the camel's back when it comes to this guy.
Hotel location was in the collective agreement, that was violated which provoked this situation. Hotel locations for length of stay over a certain amount is important so guys aren't stuck out between an airport fence and a highway with a handful of mediocre often unhealthy choices and nothing to do other than sit in your hotel room.
Punishment doesn't fit the crime.
It usually does for a problematic employee. Given what people that know him are saying on here, including the people not on here who knew him, it seemed to fit the crime based on it being a final straw with past behaviors.
Whether it was right depends on the lens one uses.
From a workplace and legal perspective, the key facts are that the email reportedly contained racial stereotypes directed toward a Black supervisor, there had been an investigation, and an arbitrator ultimately upheld the termination. That suggests the employer had a defensible basis for concluding the conduct breached workplace standards and damaged the employment relationship.
From a proportionality perspective, reasonable people can disagree. Some would argue that termination is appropriate when conduct is racist, especially in a professional environment where trust, judgment, and respect are critical. Others would argue that factors such as intent, prior record, remorse, context, and the possibility of rehabilitation should carry more weight than they sometimes do.
Employers are generally justified in treating conduct involving racial stereotypes toward a colleague or supervisor as a serious offense. Whether dismissal was the best outcome is a harder question because that depends on facts that the public rarely sees in full, such as disciplinary history, credibility findings, workplace impact, and other evidence presented during arbitration.
The broader issue is that many people equate "I don't think the person is evil" with "the person shouldn't be fired." Those are different questions. An employer is not deciding whether someone is a good person; it is deciding whether it can continue an employment relationship after certain conduct has occurred.
Loran_C wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2026 11:50 pm
Another question to ask is - was the employer looking for a reason to fire said individual based on prior engagements? Was this the "final straw"?
I fully agree with the right of a company to fire an employee that keeps on being a problem as compared to a one-time error in judgement in behaviour. That is a personality issue for firing, not a racism issue. Have had to deal with such a situation from the management side.
If the guy is as described, perhaps driving a truck is a more appropriate career. I think they are still looking for truck drivers…..for now.
I fully agree with the right of a company to fire an employee that keeps on being a problem as compared to a one-time error in judgement in behaviour. That is a personality issue for firing, not a racism issue. Have had to deal with such a situation from the management side.
Wouldn't you agree that it's difficult to fire an employee after the probation period simply for personality issues? With a union this would be even more tricky.
I fully agree with the right of a company to fire an employee that keeps on being a problem as compared to a one-time error in judgement in behaviour. That is a personality issue for firing, not a racism issue. Have had to deal with such a situation from the management side.
Wouldn't you agree that it's difficult to fire an employee after the probation period simply for personality issues? With a union this would be even more tricky.
The government rules definitely make it more difficult than it should be to fire an employee that is problematic. While a different situation, I had a discussion about similar in a company I work for just today about legal standing in contracts for a closed ended contract based on age. Back top the original question, then there is the experience recently of a personality problem person, knowing that he was about to get fired for his problematic behaviour and suddenly claimed mental distress. Now he can't be fired, has to be treated extremely sensitively on order to not face a lawsuit, and gets a package. Discovered that this personality problem person had done it previously.
The governments love protecting personality problem people. Unions do the same. They literally fight for members that steal. Have seen it long ago. Then again, when you see CUPE supporting terrorist acts, it is no surprise.
As a former Sunwing pilot, once I started reading the story, I took a guess for myself if I would know who the pilot was. After a minute of thinking, the one and only name that came to mind was Darren's. Upon reading further and seeing his name, I said to myself "Yup, that tracks."
So for those defending his "legitimate" food order and trying to excuse away his racist remarks, he was a constant thorn in the side of Flight Ops and this was finally the straw that broke the camel's back. He knew exactly what he was saying and how he was saying it and this time he got called on it. He denied any wrongdoing and got to see firsthand the results of FAFO.
DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2026 5:29 am
As a former Sunwing pilot, once I started reading the story, I took a guess for myself if I would know who the pilot was. After a minute of thinking, the one and only name that came to mind was Darren's. Upon reading further and seeing his name, I said to myself "Yup, that tracks."
So for those defending his "legitimate" food order and trying to excuse away his racist remarks, he was a constant thorn in the side of Flight Ops and this was finally the straw that broke the camel's back. He knew exactly what he was saying and how he was saying it and this time he got called on it. He denied any wrongdoing and got to see firsthand the results of FAFO.
We have had a few pilots at Jazz who would’ve been fired many times over at a non union shop, one guy in particular who was finally let go, went on a racist rant in the hotel shuttle. It was so blatant, I’m fairly certain the union didn’t even try to save him. It seems that racism, subtle or blatant is the threshold these days, not a bad thing.
The moral of the story - don't be a dick.
My own 25 years of gainful employment with a long list of reliable references can be attributed to being diplomatic, and reasonable. If you have just one problem come up, be flexible and deal with it. If it keeps happening go up the proper chain and grieve it then. Or if it's so bad, make the big bad decision to work elsewhere. Duking it out with dispatch late at night because you're pissy and someone screwed up somewhere is juvenile. Even if you're totally and completely right.
We shouldn't have to legislate everyone's actions every step of the way.
---------- ADS -----------
Everything's amazing right now, and nobody's happy.
- Louis CK
If I had my 17 year career ended over an injustice like this I would have ensured my friend who did pick up food for me at 1am was called as a witness, and all receipts were submitted for the arbitration to corroborate that I was trying to have food delivered.
This report reads like someone angry trying to pick a fight with the company, who seemed to make every effort to help his situation. And that’s a lot more help that he’d ever get over at WJ post-merger let me tell you.
He pushed it too far. FAFO.
DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2026 5:29 am
As a former Sunwing pilot, once I started reading the story, I took a guess for myself if I would know who the pilot was. After a minute of thinking, the one and only name that came to mind was Darren's. Upon reading further and seeing his name, I said to myself "Yup, that tracks."
So for those defending his "legitimate" food order and trying to excuse away his racist remarks, he was a constant thorn in the side of Flight Ops and this was finally the straw that broke the camel's back. He knew exactly what he was saying and how he was saying it and this time he got called on it. He denied any wrongdoing and got to see firsthand the results of FAFO.
We have had a few pilots at Jazz who would’ve been fired many times over at a non union shop, one guy in particular who was finally let go, went on a racist rant in the hotel shuttle. It was so blatant, I’m fairly certain the union didn’t even try to save him. It seems that racism, subtle or blatant is the threshold these days, not a bad thing.
If you’re talking about Brutus, it was way way way worse than a racist rant in a hotel shuttle. It was almost borderline verbal harassment and he had the cops called on him on Kamloops.
He also locked out a FO out of the flight deck on a flight from Rupert.
---------- ADS -----------
Complex systems won’t survive the competence crisis
DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2026 5:29 am
As a former Sunwing pilot, once I started reading the story, I took a guess for myself if I would know who the pilot was. After a minute of thinking, the one and only name that came to mind was Darren's. Upon reading further and seeing his name, I said to myself "Yup, that tracks."
So for those defending his "legitimate" food order and trying to excuse away his racist remarks, he was a constant thorn in the side of Flight Ops and this was finally the straw that broke the camel's back. He knew exactly what he was saying and how he was saying it and this time he got called on it. He denied any wrongdoing and got to see firsthand the results of FAFO.
We have had a few pilots at Jazz who would’ve been fired many times over at a non union shop, one guy in particular who was finally let go, went on a racist rant in the hotel shuttle. It was so blatant, I’m fairly certain the union didn’t even try to save him. It seems that racism, subtle or blatant is the threshold these days, not a bad thing.
If you’re talking about Brutus, it was way way way worse than a racist rant in a hotel shuttle. It was almost borderline verbal harassment and he had the cops called on him on Kamloops.
He also locked out a FO out of the flight deck on a flight from Rupert.
DHC-1 Jockey wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2026 5:29 am
As a former Sunwing pilot, once I started reading the story, I took a guess for myself if I would know who the pilot was. After a minute of thinking, the one and only name that came to mind was Darren's. Upon reading further and seeing his name, I said to myself "Yup, that tracks."
So for those defending his "legitimate" food order and trying to excuse away his racist remarks, he was a constant thorn in the side of Flight Ops and this was finally the straw that broke the camel's back. He knew exactly what he was saying and how he was saying it and this time he got called on it. He denied any wrongdoing and got to see firsthand the results of FAFO.
We have had a few pilots at Jazz who would’ve been fired many times over at a non union shop, one guy in particular who was finally let go, went on a racist rant in the hotel shuttle. It was so blatant, I’m fairly certain the union didn’t even try to save him. It seems that racism, subtle or blatant is the threshold these days, not a bad thing.
If you’re talking about Brutus, it was way way way worse than a racist rant in a hotel shuttle. It was almost borderline verbal harassment and he had the cops called on him on Kamloops.
He also locked out a FO out of the flight deck on a flight from Rupert.
Yes, there are many stories about Brutus, fortunately I only worked with him a few times, I also didn’t put up with his shit either.
As to Pelmet’s question, he was a fairly senior Captain when he was terminated, I believe he started at Air B.C way back.
We have had a few pilots at Jazz who would’ve been fired many times over at a non union shop, one guy in particular who was finally let go, went on a racist rant in the hotel shuttle. It was so blatant, I’m fairly certain the union didn’t even try to save him. It seems that racism, subtle or blatant is the threshold these days, not a bad thing.
If you’re talking about Brutus, it was way way way worse than a racist rant in a hotel shuttle. It was almost borderline verbal harassment and he had the cops called on him on Kamloops.
He also locked out a FO out of the flight deck on a flight from Rupert.
Yes, there are many stories about Brutus, fortunately I only worked with him a few times, I also didn’t put up with his shit either.
As to Pelmet’s question, he was a fairly senior Captain when he was terminated, I believe he started at Air B.C way back.
If you’re talking about Brutus, it was way way way worse than a racist rant in a hotel shuttle. It was almost borderline verbal harassment and he had the cops called on him on Kamloops.
He also locked out a FO out of the flight deck on a flight from Rupert.
Yes, there are many stories about Brutus, fortunately I only worked with him a few times, I also didn’t put up with his shit either.
As to Pelmet’s question, he was a fairly senior Captain when he was terminated, I believe he started at Air B.C way back.
Airline Pilot job started out, like the Skilled Trades today. You could say and do anything, and keep your job.
Slowly, the employment pool became more saturated, and the rules involved in the profession, driven by Employers and the Government became more stringent. Now, we almost need to physically remove our testicles, watch what we say, walk on eggshells, be careful who we talk to about what. I do think, in the future, like Office Workspaces, Airline jobs will be dominated by Females.
Everybody here should be embarrassed by this, regardless of race. It is a descent towards femininity. We're already afraid of losing our jobs, won't be long till we are begging for our jobs, and after that we'll be replaced. This is Brutal.
Devoid of any, and all masculinity. Can't even make a joke without getting fired.
