QOL in Cargojet besides poor pay

[CaptDukeNukem]

I literally made 186k flying 416hours year 2 FO. I’ve never since I started working here made less than 120k w/overtime. When I say “with overtime” it’s not like I’m working my bag off at all literally home so often it doesn’t make sense not to pick up the trips when they call.

I will say the overtime has slowed down though

Post your end of year pay stub, With all personal info blacked out. Year two FO shows 83,370$ yearly. Unless I’m missing something, please Kindly explain how you whored yourself out for double the salary with only flying 416 hours.

Cargo pilots don't generally fly a lot. The planes sit most of the time and these guys could do a run to and from Cincinnati that touches 3 days which would trigger min daily guarantees for 3 days while barely flying 2 hours. I used to fly cargo and getting a YVR or YYC weekend on OT would be like 24 hours of pay while only flying 7-9 hours. But you'd be away almost 6 days. Cargojet has also been known to pay 2-4X your hourly rate during very busy periods.

But he's still being a bit misleading. While the hours flown are low, the time TAFB would have been significant for a brand new FO to double his base salary. If you don't have any real responsibilities at home and can afford to be away for long periods, great! Make hay while the sun shines. But if marriage and kids are in the picture, you definitely can't be doing as much OT as this guy. If you are, boy.........., have I got bad news for you!

Thanks for a sensible reply! Still doesn’t make sense how to double a salary from sitting around on trip rig or daily mins. But I guess it’s possible.

Sorry for all the edits. Mostly grammar lol.
One follow up question :

You said you could pick up a weekend OT shift where you would make 24ish credits but you would be gone 6 days, but only fly 7-9 hours. How is that picking up a weekend OT shift? That’s a full week. Minus the required day off at home.

I guess you’re right, if you’re single and have no responsibilities and saving up for that first down payment, this could work.

My mind instantly sees burnout and fatigue to get there.

[Tbayer2021]

Post your end of year pay stub, With all personal info blacked out. Year two FO shows 83,370$ yearly. Unless I’m missing something, please Kindly explain how you whored yourself out for double the salary with only flying 416 hours.

Cargo pilots don't generally fly a lot. The planes sit most of the time and these guys could do a run to and from Cincinnati that touches 3 days which would trigger min daily guarantees for 3 days while barely flying 2 hours. I used to fly cargo and getting a YVR or YYC weekend on OT would be like 24 hours of pay while only flying 7-9 hours. But you'd be away almost 6 days. Cargojet has also been known to pay 2-4X your hourly rate during very busy periods.

But he's still being a bit misleading. While the hours flown are low, the time TAFB would have been significant for a brand new FO to double his base salary. If you don't have any real responsibilities at home and can afford to be away for long periods, great! Make hay while the sun shines. But if marriage and kids are in the picture, you definitely can't be doing as much OT as this guy. If you are, boy.........., have I got bad news for you!

Thanks for a sensible reply! Still doesn’t make sense how to double a salary from sitting around on trip rig or daily mins. But I guess it’s possible.

Sorry for all the edits. Mostly grammar lol.
One follow up question :

You said you could pick up a weekend OT shift where you would make 24ish credits but you would be gone 6 days, but only fly 7-9 hours. How is that picking up a weekend OT shift? That’s a full week. Minus the required day off at home.

I guess you’re right, if you’re single and have no responsibilities and saving up for that first down payment, this could work.

My mind instantly sees burnout and fatigue to get there.

You report for duty within the last hour of Thursday so that triggers 4 hours of pay. Fly to say YYC and spend Friday to Monday there. Land back in Toronto just past midnight into Tuesday therefor triggering another 4 hours that day and all you did was fly to YYC and back. Same thing with something like getting 3 days pay for a late departure on day 1 that again triggers min daily guarantee. Fly overnight to your destination followed by a day stay and return that evening that lands you back at base anywhere between midnight and 3am on the 3rd day. Triggering 3 days worth of pay for technically being away "only" just over 24 hours. Dawgydawg only mentions flight hours and not TAFB which gives a very misleading picture given how pay works at CJ.

Another lucrative situation that was happening at CJ for a while was guys would get sent to Japan to be temporarily based there during Covid for a week or two while they shuttled between Narita and China and others between Narita and YVR. It had to do with Chinese visas. Once there the company would dangle a very nice carrot (cash) to extend your stay. I know guys that spent months there. Again, great if you're single without commitments. But like the other guy said, OT has all but dried up at CJ and bragging about how much more you made because you worked so much OT is just ridiculous.

This all sounds amazing till you actually do it. I looked like a zombie during my freight dog tenure. The funny part is that once you're in that world, you don't realize how chronically fatigued you actually are because that becomes your new normal. Took me almost 6 months after I left for the airlines to fully readjust my sleep pattern and all of the sudden I felt like a new person with so much energy.

[cdnavater]

Cargo pilots don't generally fly a lot. The planes sit most of the time and these guys could do a run to and from Cincinnati that touches 3 days which would trigger min daily guarantees for 3 days while barely flying 2 hours. I used to fly cargo and getting a YVR or YYC weekend on OT would be like 24 hours of pay while only flying 7-9 hours. But you'd be away almost 6 days. Cargojet has also been known to pay 2-4X your hourly rate during very busy periods.

But he's still being a bit misleading. While the hours flown are low, the time TAFB would have been significant for a brand new FO to double his base salary. If you don't have any real responsibilities at home and can afford to be away for long periods, great! Make hay while the sun shines. But if marriage and kids are in the picture, you definitely can't be doing as much OT as this guy. If you are, boy.........., have I got bad news for you!

Thanks for a sensible reply! Still doesn’t make sense how to double a salary from sitting around on trip rig or daily mins. But I guess it’s possible.

Sorry for all the edits. Mostly grammar lol.
One follow up question :

You said you could pick up a weekend OT shift where you would make 24ish credits but you would be gone 6 days, but only fly 7-9 hours. How is that picking up a weekend OT shift? That’s a full week. Minus the required day off at home.

I guess you’re right, if you’re single and have no responsibilities and saving up for that first down payment, this could work.

My mind instantly sees burnout and fatigue to get there.

You report for duty within the last hour of Thursday so that triggers 4 hours of pay. Fly to say YYC and spend Friday to Monday there. Land back in Toronto just past midnight into Tuesday therefor triggering another 4 hours that day and all you did was fly to YYC and back. Same thing with something like getting 3 days pay for a late departure on day 1 that again triggers min daily guarantee. Fly overnight to your destination followed by a day stay and return that evening that lands you back at base anywhere between midnight and 3am on the 3rd day. Triggering 3 days worth of pay for technically being away "only" just over 24 hours. Dawgydawg only mentions flight hours and not TAFB which gives a very misleading picture given how pay works at CJ.

Another lucrative situation that was happening at CJ for a while was guys would get sent to Japan to be temporarily based there during Covid for a week or two while they shuttled between Narita and China and others between Narita and YVR. It had to do with Chinese visas. Once there the company would dangle a very nice carrot (cash) to extend your stay. I know guys that spent months there. Again, great if you're single without commitments. But like the other guy said, OT has all but dried up at CJ and bragging about how much more you made because you worked so much OT is just ridiculous.

This all sounds amazing till you actually do it. I looked like a zombie during my freight dog tenure. The funny part is that once you're in that world, you don't realize how chronically fatigued you actually are because that becomes your new normal. Took me almost 6 months after I left for the airlines to fully readjust my sleep pattern and all of the sudden I felt like a new person with so much energy.

The same can be said about overseas airline life, my buddy did it early on as an RP, hated it and is still struggling with going back to it left seat, which he can hold but is not sure the extra money is worth it. I remember years ago, we are the same age, month apart but he looked ten years older than me back then. After he went back to narrow body and bidding for north south flying, he definitely looks younger than he is now, pretty crazy the difference!

[Index]

Cargo pilots don't generally fly a lot. The planes sit most of the time and these guys could do a run to and from Cincinnati that touches 3 days which would trigger min daily guarantees for 3 days while barely flying 2 hours. I used to fly cargo and getting a YVR or YYC weekend on OT would be like 24 hours of pay while only flying 7-9 hours. But you'd be away almost 6 days. Cargojet has also been known to pay 2-4X your hourly rate during very busy periods.

But he's still being a bit misleading. While the hours flown are low, the time TAFB would have been significant for a brand new FO to double his base salary. If you don't have any real responsibilities at home and can afford to be away for long periods, great! Make hay while the sun shines. But if marriage and kids are in the picture, you definitely can't be doing as much OT as this guy. If you are, boy.........., have I got bad news for you!

Thanks for a sensible reply! Still doesn’t make sense how to double a salary from sitting around on trip rig or daily mins. But I guess it’s possible.

Sorry for all the edits. Mostly grammar lol.
One follow up question :

You said you could pick up a weekend OT shift where you would make 24ish credits but you would be gone 6 days, but only fly 7-9 hours. How is that picking up a weekend OT shift? That’s a full week. Minus the required day off at home.

I guess you’re right, if you’re single and have no responsibilities and saving up for that first down payment, this could work.

My mind instantly sees burnout and fatigue to get there.

You report for duty within the last hour of Thursday so that triggers 4 hours of pay. Fly to say YYC and spend Friday to Monday there. Land back in Toronto just past midnight into Tuesday therefor triggering another 4 hours that day and all you did was fly to YYC and back. Same thing with something like getting 3 days pay for a late departure on day 1 that again triggers min daily guarantee. Fly overnight to your destination followed by a day stay and return that evening that lands you back at base anywhere between midnight and 3am on the 3rd day. Triggering 3 days worth of pay for technically being away "only" just over 24 hours. Dawgydawg only mentions flight hours and not TAFB which gives a very misleading picture given how pay works at CJ.

Another lucrative situation that was happening at CJ for a while was guys would get sent to Japan to be temporarily based there during Covid for a week or two while they shuttled between Narita and China and others between Narita and YVR. It had to do with Chinese visas. Once there the company would dangle a very nice carrot (cash) to your stay. I know guys that spent months there. Again, great if you're single without commitments. But like the other guy said, OT has all but dried up at CJ and bragging about how much more you made because you worked so much OT is just ridiculous.

This all sounds amazing till you actually do it. I looked like a zombie during my freight dog tenure. The funny part is that once you're in that world, you don't realize how chronically fatigued you actually are because that becomes your new normal. Took me almost 6 months after I left for the airlines to fully readjust my sleep pattern and all of the sudden I felt like a new person with so much energy.

just to clarify some things, since CJ doesn't go by a credit system, but rather by a day system, anything over 15 days worked is counted as OT... and each day of OT is now 5 hours min credit, used to be 4, at minimum 2x your hourly rate... during covid, they were offering 3x and 4x all the time. Also to make it make sense... if you start day 1 of OT at 23:55 check in time, that is considered a full day, paid at 5 hours, and if you finish day 3 at 12:01am, that is also considered 5 hours at 2x rate... so you could realistically only be gone for 24 hours and 6 minutes (say from 23:55 Monday night, to 12:01am Wednesday morning), but you have effectively been paid for 3 days of OT, at 15 hours credit minimum, at minimum 2x your hourly rate. If you get something like this, on paper you've effectively worked 3 extra days, but you didn't really, as you have your entire Monday and Wednesday all to yourself, but you flew throughout the night tuesday and are likely to be bagged all day Wednesday when you get home... and having said all that, OT is al but non existent these days, so those examples of OT and people touting how much money they made is a load of bull because your life and your finances are not dependent on what you can be making, but what your minimum guarantee is... it always amazes me how us pilots, who operate heavy machinery, can't understand some simple financial concepts at the end of the day. OT is not salary, and per diems are not salary, neither are guaranteed, and can always fluctuate