WestJet to Integrate Flair soon?

[PittBoss]

Heard from Flair employees that Onyx planning to buy Flair and Integrate Flair like Sunwing.

[DanWEC]

Heard there's a particular username that literally only exists to start random posts like this for a year or two now.

It is funny to see the results though, between some guys that get all wound up, and opinions from others who couldn't even run a lemonade stand.

[flieslikeachicken]

Heard from Flair employees that Onyx planning to buy Flair and Integrate Flair like Sunwing.

What possible benefit would WJ have by buying Flair?

Seriously, Flair would only add debt to WJ without any tangible benefit.

[cdnavater]

Heard from Flair employees that Onyx planning to buy Flair and Integrate Flair like Sunwing.

What possible benefit would WJ have by buying Flair?

Seriously, Flair would only add debt to WJ without any tangible benefit.

no doubt, 100s of millions of debt and a bunch of expensive leases, sounds like a sound business strategy to me!

[flieslikeachicken]

no doubt, 100s of millions of debt and a bunch of expensive leases, sounds like a sound business strategy to me!

Honestly, now that you've put it that way, it does sound like something Onex would do. If they implemented Flair service, it would be an improvement from the current WJ service.

[Nauclerus]

The seniority list integration will be interesting. How many 15-20 year Flair pilots are there that will get to bid the B787 left seat ?

[Blackdog0301]

The seniority list integration will be interesting. How many 15-20 year Flair pilots are there that will get to bid the B787 left seat ?

NONE! Because it won't happen.

[safetyfirst123]

If this happens, Flair pilots will have the privilege of flying modern 737's like the old 200's. Don't forget to say thank you, Flair pilots. Climb Thrust Level Change!

[truecolours]

If this happens, Flair pilots will have the privilege of flying modern 737's like the old 200's. Don't forget to say thank you, Flair pilots. Climb Thrust Level Change!

And/or the privilege of flying with former SWG pilots setting some arbitrary N1 settings for go arounds (with no corresponding climb performance numbers).

[Donald]

I heard EIC was looking at adding Flair to their portfolio. Give them better southern canada coverage.

[planenuts]

If this happens, Flair pilots will have the privilege of flying modern 737's like the old 200's. Don't forget to say thank you, Flair pilots. Climb Thrust Level Change!

And/or the privilege of flying with former SWG pilots setting some arbitrary N1 settings for go arounds (with no corresponding climb performance numbers).

Oh - give it a rest you two. Nobodies perfect.

I can come up with all kinds of stupid shit both Westjet and Sunwing crews have done. Just give it a rest.

[MaxAuto]

If this happens, Flair pilots will have the privilege of flying modern 737's like the old 200's. Don't forget to say thank you, Flair pilots. Climb Thrust Level Change!

And/or the privilege of flying with former SWG pilots setting some arbitrary N1 settings for go arounds (with no corresponding climb performance numbers).

Flair SOPs are very similar to SWG SOPs.

[safetyfirst123]

If this happens, Flair pilots will have the privilege of flying modern 737's like the old 200's. Don't forget to say thank you, Flair pilots. Climb Thrust Level Change!

And/or the privilege of flying with former SWG pilots setting some arbitrary N1 settings for go arounds (with no corresponding climb performance numbers).

Oh - give it a rest you two. Nobodies perfect.

I can come up with all kinds of stupid shit both Westjet and Sunwing crews have done. Just give it a rest.

I didn't mention anything about Westjet crews, who by the way have been fantastic to work with. But it would be nice if the company didn't pay to get rid of GPWS callouts for example

[QKZXKV]

And/or the privilege of flying with former SWG pilots setting some arbitrary N1 settings for go arounds (with no corresponding climb performance numbers).

Oh - give it a rest you two. Nobodies perfect.

I can come up with all kinds of stupid shit both Westjet and Sunwing crews have done. Just give it a rest.

I didn't mention anything about Westjet crews, who by the way have been fantastic to work with. But it would be nice if the company didn't pay to get rid of GPWS callouts for example

It's not a payment. It's a simple settings change done by maintenance...

[rooster]

PittBoss exists because you lot always take the bait and feed the troll. At this point I don't blame him!

[co-joe]

The seniority list integration will be interesting. How many 15-20 year Flair pilots are there that will get to bid the B787 left seat ?

None that are under 65.

[MaxAuto]

If this happens, Flair pilots will have the privilege of flying modern 737's like the old 200's. Don't forget to say thank you, Flair pilots. Climb Thrust Level Change!

And/or the privilege of flying with former SWG pilots setting some arbitrary N1 settings for go arounds (with no corresponding climb performance numbers).

80% to 85% N1 is what the SOPs said. One or two presses of the TOGA. It wasn't arbitrary. It always works out fine. Flairs SOPs are very similar to SWG. They even have automated altitude alert callouts. WestJet likes to reinvent the wheel.

[safetyfirst123]

It also came from the Boeing FCTM. If that's arbitrary then I have no words.

[truecolours]

1st press is GA which commands 1000-2000 FPM.

2nd press is N1.

I don’t see any reference to actual percentages in the FCTM. As we have all learned, Boeing likes to leave stuff out. Do you have a section number for your statement that 80 and 85 are in the FCTM?

[truecolours]

That’s a trick question. N1 values are not static. They are based on a variety of inputs. Just picking a number doesn’t cut it.

The highest number referenced above (85%) is on the very low end of what a calculated go around N1 would be. It would have to be -47 and an airport 2000 feet below sea level for 85% to be adequate for a full thrust (second press) go around. Ref: performance tables.

[nohojob]

The FOM says to advance to full thrust initially.
Then, you adjust it.
So it is whatever you think works.

In the FOM also the PM is supposed to adjust the thrust.
In the FTCM the PF is supposed to do it.

There are a few things that are done online that doesn't match the FTCM.

[truecolours]

The Boeing FCTM is a guidance document. Operators are under no obligation to have their company procedures follow it directly.

[FL410AV8R]

The seniority list integration will be interesting. How many 15-20 year Flair pilots are there that will get to bid the B787 left seat ?

In reality, none. Firstly because thankfully Onex isn't that dumb and secondly because the most junior 787 Captain is an August 2002 hire, so almost 24 years on the property.

[Nauclerus]

In reality, none. Firstly because thankfully Onex isn't that dumb and secondly because the most junior 787 Captain is an August 2002 hire, so almost 24 years on the property.

Well they bought Sunwing, so they aren't that smart. And going by that seniority arbitration, date of hire doesn't count for much as it's all about your "relative" position on the list. Flair started in 2005 and there would probably be more than a few that would leapfrog ahead a few years of their DOH just like the Sunwing guys did to maintain their relative seniority. Stovepiping hot deliciousness.

[Arnie Pye]

Flair doesn't own a single thing. Not. One. Asset. I'm pretty sure they lease the pens and notepads in the office. The amount of debt Flair has would make your eyes water and The new CEO is handing out VP positions like he's Opra (you're a VP, you're a VP, everybody's a VP!).

If Westjet wants more tails, they can get them from multiple sources. if they want more pilots there is no shortage of pilots willing to sit in the right seat for 10+ years just to get a Calgary Captain spot eventually. Flair has no slots at strategic airports that are worth anything to anyone, all of their routes overlap with WestJet or Encore, and any of the cheap leases Flair had must be about to expire by now.

Flair has nothing of value to add to WestJet aside from tax write offs from crippling debt. If Westjet want tax write offs all they have to do is buy a bunch of fuel at today's price. At least fuel is somewhat useful to an airline. WestJet would be better off to buy Transat in order to get the Quebec Government to give them a financial reach around and a bunch of useful wide body aircraft.