Jazz AC FLOW

[StraightCooked]

Just wanted to see if someone has any info or has done this, working at Jazz as an FO but the end goal is AC for me. ive heard/seen that the flow is extremely saturated and slow. I was wondering if I leave jazz to go to another company, does that hurt my chances to go AC down the line?

[prop2jet]

So you are currently an FO at Jazz? You along with every other Junior have AC in mind as a destination. Feel free to apply elsewhere and while going through their screening process tell them flat out the reason you are leaving Jazz is because you want a fast track to AC... See how that goes in the interview and selection process

The only issue you will have with AC if you leave Jazz and go elsewhere is if in the screening process your time at Jazz was less than stellar.

[piedpiper]

If you leave Jazz it COULD make a difference in your timeline. It's a complete unknown, but this idea that circulates that you would be blacklisted is not a real thing. If someone can get fired from Jazz for failing out, get fired from multiple other companies in Canada and still get hired at AC, anyone can. Flow isn't that saturated given how few pilots at Jazz who want to go to AC actually have an ATPL and 2k hours. Where do you sit on that scale?

If you are already at Jazz with +-1 a year of service I would stay put. Upgrade if you can, pad that resume. The last thing you should do is bid reserve and not fly much. OTS hiring is always quite competitive. What do you have that makes you stand out? If you're just an average pilot with average hours and experience, Jazz is likely still your best option.

[Outlaw58]

Just wanted to see if someone has any info or has done this, working at Jazz as an FO but the end goal is AC for me. ive heard/seen that the flow is extremely saturated and slow. I was wondering if I leave jazz to go to another company, does that hurt my chances to go AC down the line?

Ok, assuming you are not a troll and are asking this question sincerely.

Go somewhere other than AVCANADA to get career advice... please! This idea on social media to avoid Jazz if your goal is to go to AC is ludicrous. And if you ARE at Jazz, then leaving in the hope to get there faster is even crazier.

There may be stories out there of a couple pilots who may have leapfrogged some former colleagues that were at Jazz but these stories are anecdotal. The few that were in fact verified were all a by-product of the post-pandemic hire craze. Hardly the stuff you can build a solid career strategy on.

Flow has slowed because AC hiring has slowed, and for at least the short to medium term, if you do not have around 3000TT with significant 705 jet experience, forget leapfrogging anyone.

But hey, take my "avcanada" advice for what it's worth. Shite like everyone else's.

58

[piedpiper]

Well said.

People need to remember what might have been true last year won't be next year. That one guy you know who went to Encore and got to AC 6 months faster than you could have also ended up being 6 months behind you. There is no sure thing, but if you have an ATPL and are at Jazz you're doing just fine. You'll jump a lot of the new hires from 2024 that were brought on with 500 hours at Jazz. And if you are one of those lower time pilots, you'd be crazy to leave Jazz as you'd def not be competitive as OTS.

Stay at Jazz. Upgrade if you can.

[Nick678]

Leave Jazz if your goal is AC, learn from my mistakes. Never trust that AC will honour any agreements. you could lose thousands of seniority numbers waiting.

[piedpiper]

Leave Jazz if your goal is AC, learn from my mistakes. Never trust that AC will honour any agreements. you could lose thousands of seniority numbers waiting.

Dont' listen to this guy.

[702pipeliner]

Personally wouldn't recommend leaving Jazz once you are on compound.

Unfortunately AC will not hire you from an OAL if you left jazz until your cohort has received their calls to ac. Lots of guys who left Jazz who were hired in 2022 were hired who subsequently left ended getting hired after their original class mates.

[daedalusx]

Leave Jazz if your goal is AC, learn from my mistakes. Never trust that AC will honour any agreements. you could lose thousands of seniority numbers waiting.

This.

I got an offer from Big Red after openly telling Jazz to suck my dick.

[Hysteria]

Two pals I know at Jazz flowed to AC after 2 years and 6 months on property in October or November.

[Nick678]

Leave Jazz if your goal is AC, learn from my mistakes. Never trust that AC will honour any agreements. you could lose thousands of seniority numbers waiting.

Dont' listen to this guy.

Don't listen to this guy,

Should we stack up the years that AC has honoured flow vs ignored it?

[Nick678]

Personally wouldn't recommend leaving Jazz once you are on compound.

Unfortunately AC will not hire you from an OAL if you left jazz until your cohort has received their calls to ac. Lots of guys who left Jazz who were hired in 2022 were hired who subsequently left ended getting hired after their original class mates.

DM some names, this never happened.

[702pipeliner]

Personally wouldn't recommend leaving Jazz once you are on compound.

Unfortunately AC will not hire you from an OAL if you left jazz until your cohort has received their calls to ac. Lots of guys who left Jazz who were hired in 2022 were hired who subsequently left ended getting hired after their original class mates.

DM some names, this never happened.

Yah it did. Multiple times.Look at jazz list 2022 then ac list 2024. Not many guys flowed from jazz. So its easy to do a comparison and see how many guys it happened to with linkedin

[piedpiper]

Leave Jazz if your goal is AC, learn from my mistakes. Never trust that AC will honour any agreements. you could lose thousands of seniority numbers waiting.

Dont' listen to this guy.

Don't listen to this guy,

Should we stack up the years that AC has honoured flow vs ignored it?

There is no flow to AC. That's your first mistake.

[Nick678]

Dont' listen to this guy.

Don't listen to this guy,

Should we stack up the years that AC has honoured flow vs ignored it?

There is no flow to AC. That's your first mistake.

Jesus, section 3-14 Pilot Movement to Air Canada. You are ants at a picnic.

[piedpiper]

Don't listen to this guy,

Should we stack up the years that AC has honoured flow vs ignored it?

There is no flow to AC. That's your first mistake.

Jesus, section 3-14 Pilot Movement to Air Canada. You are ants at a picnic.

It's a preferential interview with hiring quotas. Flow implies a guaranteed job. Maybe learn a thing or two.

So yes, I am right.

[Nick678]

There is no flow to AC. That's your first mistake.

Jesus, section 3-14 Pilot Movement to Air Canada. You are ants at a picnic.

It's a preferential interview with hiring quotas. Flow implies a guaranteed job. Maybe learn a thing or two.

So yes, I am right.

You’re right if your ego needs to hear it, I can’t tell if you’re dense or the correct usable of the term “flow” matters the world to you.

Anyways, stay away from Jazz…. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. AC/Jazz will not honour contractual items.

[piedpiper]

Jesus, section 3-14 Pilot Movement to Air Canada. You are ants at a picnic.

It's a preferential interview with hiring quotas. Flow implies a guaranteed job. Maybe learn a thing or two.

So yes, I am right.

You’re right if your ego needs to hear it, I can’t tell if you’re dense or the correct usable of the term “flow” matters the world to you.

Anyways, stay away from Jazz…. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. AC/Jazz will not honour contractual items.

Is this the notorious Nick that has been around here for years? If so, maybe you're just a bit of an untouchable. Ever consider that?

[CaptDukeNukem]

If you’re at jazz trying to get to to AC then you’re already losing the race. Fly a Pilatus in northern Quebec for two years. You’re more likely to be hired at AC if you have any command time.

Jazz sucks. Period. Double period.

[LineUpAndWait]

After reading many opinions, I am still unclear with how the flow to AC works. Anyone kind enough to go over the details as they're spelled out?

I understand that in practice things may play out differently, but everyone has a slightly unique background so it is hard to differentiate whether outcomes are based on policy or individual circumstances, or both. In my case, I have nearly 2,000hrs TT & 400hrs PIC of RCAF ME turboprop experience.

So, can someone with my experience hope for a quick upgrade at Jazz, and/or flow to AC within 2 years of flying for Jazz? Or is the process entirely dependant on seniority?

I also have the option to stay with the RCAF until I am ready to apply for AC directly, but that would take at least a year or two as well. And I'd rather spend that time getting 705 experience.

[TheStig]

After reading many opinions, I am still unclear with how the flow to AC works. Anyone kind enough to go over the details as they're spelled out?

I understand that in practice things may play out differently, but everyone has a slightly unique background so it is hard to differentiate whether outcomes are based on policy or individual circumstances, or both. In my case, I have nearly 2,000hrs TT & 400hrs PIC of RCAF ME turboprop experience.

So, can someone with my experience hope for a quick upgrade at Jazz, and/or flow to AC within 2 years of flying for Jazz? Or is the process entirely dependant on seniority?

I also have the option to stay with the RCAF until I am ready to apply for AC directly, but that would take at least a year or two as well. And I'd rather spend that time getting 705 experience.

Not sure what qualifications you still need to acquire but if it's going to take you that long in the RCAF maybe you'd be better considering Porter or Encore. If you're close to 2000 TT and a FIXED WING ATPL another 705 carrier is a better pathway to AC. As you've probably gathered from this thread the Jazz flow through to mainline is not a reliable, expedient pathway.

[gqra]

After reading many opinions, I am still unclear with how the flow to AC works. Anyone kind enough to go over the details as they're spelled out?

I understand that in practice things may play out differently, but everyone has a slightly unique background so it is hard to differentiate whether outcomes are based on policy or individual circumstances, or both. In my case, I have nearly 2,000hrs TT & 400hrs PIC of RCAF ME turboprop experience.

So, can someone with my experience hope for a quick upgrade at Jazz, and/or flow to AC within 2 years of flying for Jazz? Or is the process entirely dependant on seniority?

I also have the option to stay with the RCAF until I am ready to apply for AC directly, but that would take at least a year or two as well. And I'd rather spend that time getting 705 experience.

Really just depends on your timing and nothing else. The last few years, no one from Jazz gets hired until September/October/November at AC. "The flow numbers are determined at the end of the year". And they really mean it...

[CaptDukeNukem]

Hundreds of pilots got screwed by AC not fulfilling their agreement with Jazz regarding flow in the past. There’s already a thread on this. I suggest reading it to see how going to Jazz might limit or postpone your timeline at AC.

[Nick678]

Hundreds of pilots got screwed by AC not fulfilling their agreement with Jazz regarding flow in the past. There’s already a thread on this. I suggest reading it to see how going to Jazz might limit or postpone your timeline at AC.

What's the flow percentage now? 30%? Last bid had 120 vacancies at AC and while hiring projections look deeper into the future thats not going to be significant amount from Jazz. Jazz will be the slowest/most painful path to AC.

[flying4dollars]

I don't know the details of the PML/flow specifically, but in practice, ground schools at AC are filled by Jazz pilots Between I believe September and January. This year the projection of new hires is 450-600. About 20 every class with roughly 2 classes a month with the exception of maybe the summer. I'm told the peak retirement years begin in 2027 with about 300/year. So those positions will need to be filled and this isn't accounting for growth which is planned for 30% by the mid 2030's.

One thing is certain, nothing is absolute here at AC with hiring, projection, growth, retirements etc. There is no timeline from Jazz to AC. Fastest way here is 2000TT and a fixed wing ATPL as previously mentioned. Going to Jazz may or may not slow you down. Going somewhere else may or may not accelerate your arrival here, which on it's own is never guaranteed anyways. Always have a backup, and a backup to that. AC is not a guarantee for anyone regardless of how much they are hiring .