Mid-air near Chilliwack, BC

[peipilot]

Two planes from a pair of flight schools crashed Monday while flying near the city of Chilliwack in British Columbia’s Fraser Valley.

It has been reported C-FMNB C-172 with 2 POB was able to land at the Chilliwack airport. The other plane went down in a lake with 1 POB.

C-FMNB was a plane I used to fly survey when it was owned by Leading Edge Geomatics in Fredericton, NB. Note the exhaust extension installed to route it away from LiDAR equipment.

https://globalnews.ca/news/12008115/chi ... ane-crash/

[broken_slinky]

Sounds like 2 flight school planes collided mid-air.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -9.7295584

[7ECA]

https://vancouversun.com/news/tsb-inves ... -collision

This article claims one of the Cessna 172s with two on board landed safely at CYCW, while the second apparently with one onboard crashed into a quarry lagoon.

Not a lot of information has come out yet.

[pelmet]

Suoer busy airspace in that area. Used to rent a Cherokee Cruiser out of Langley and airspace was at a premium.

[co-joe]

I'm always blown away how busy that airspace looks on TCAS as we go into and out of YXX. I've had two RAs right in that area, both before they re-designed things for the RNP AR IAP. Between the jet aircraft corridors, the US border, the mountains, and the YVR airspace it seems like one of the most complicated VFR areas in the Country.

[CpnCrunch]

I'm always blown away how busy that airspace looks on TCAS as we go into and out of YXX. I've had two RAs right in that area, both before they re-designed things for the RNP AR IAP. Between the jet aircraft corridors, the US border, the mountains, and the YVR airspace it seems like one of the most complicated VFR areas in the Country.

Yeah, it's crazy, and I don't fly around there any more. Just too much traffic and risk of collision. When I did used to fly that way up to Hope, there were a few times I was asked by Vic Tml to get out of the way of WJ in that class E before they created those new class C blocks at Cultus lake. That's no problem as the airlines have TCAS. But if you're flying GA without any TCAS, you really just have 5 or 10 seconds to spot other GA traffic before a head-on collision, and that situation happens a fair proportion of the time when flying that route at a few thousand feet.

I can't really see any solution other than mandatory ADS-B or something similar.

[Eric Janson]

I can't really see any solution other than mandatory ADS-B or something similar.

Don't fly an exact altitude (+/- 200' instead). Far from ideal but infinitely better than a midair.

[7ECA]

From the CADORS:

A Pacific Rim Aviation Academy Cessna (C-FBQZ) from CYPK to CYCW and a Aquila Aviation Cessna (C-FMNB) from CYPK to CYCW collided 2.5NM northwest (NW) of CYCW. C-FMNB had 2 souls on board (SOB). C-FBZQ is presumed in a lake and aircraft to be recovered by RCMP. 1 soul on board (SOB) as per Flight Plan. C-FBZQ departed CYPK at 2346Z and crashed at 0012Z C-FMNB departed CYXX at 2347Z collided with C-FBZQ at 0012Z and landed 0017Z.

Yes it is busy airspace, but it's really not all that difficult to find a routing that avoids much of the Westbound/Eastbound traffic. Fly closer to the mountains, take a more scenic route over the lakes, fly lower... all are valid options. You'll rarely have any conflicting traffic if you're transiting between 500-1500' along the Fraser, besides some of the float traffic, but they rarely go above 500'.

[CpnCrunch]

Yes it is busy airspace, but it's really not all that difficult to find a routing that avoids much of the Westbound/Eastbound traffic. Fly closer to the mountains, take a more scenic route over the lakes, fly lower... all are valid options. You'll rarely have any conflicting traffic if you're transiting between 500-1500' along the Fraser, besides some of the float traffic, but they rarely go above 500'.

But you get helicopters, cubs and homebuilts at 500-1500. That altitude range seems to be where they congregate.

The safest option IMO is to climb up and talk to Vic TML. However, that wouldn't have been feasible for the short flight in this case.

[7ECA]

But you get helicopters, cubs and homebuilts at 500-1500. That altitude range seems to be where they congregate.

The safest option IMO is to climb up and talk to Vic TML. However, that wouldn't have been feasible for the short flight in this case.

True, there can be traffic in any direction and seemingly at any conceivable altitude. But we don't all have to follow the conga line to/from Glenn Valley and to/from Chilliwack...

Terminal? If we're talking about the average FTU student, they've had the fear of Terminal beaten into them from the first time they dared to climb up to ~2,500' transiting to the practice area.

It's also unrealistic to say that Vancouver Terminal (or Centre as you head further East) is a solution. When was the last time there was a day that wasn't NOTAM'd Class C restrictions in place?

It's not unlike expecting more regulations or mandatory gizmos to stop accidents from happening. Maybe a smarter solution would be having NavCanada do a study of the traffic density around YCW and setting up an FSS or TWR instead?

[CpnCrunch]

True, there can be traffic in any direction and seemingly at any conceivable altitude. But we don't all have to follow the conga line to/from Glenn Valley and to/from Chilliwack...

Terminal? If we're talking about the average FTU student, they've had the fear of Terminal beaten into them from the first time they dared to climb up to ~2,500' transiting to the practice area.

It's also unrealistic to say that Vancouver Terminal (or Centre as you head further East) is a solution. When was the last time there was a day that wasn't NOTAM'd Class C restrictions in place?

It's not unlike expecting more regulations or mandatory gizmos to stop accidents from happening. Maybe a smarter solution would be having NavCanada do a study of the traffic density around YCW and setting up an FSS or TWR instead?

Yeah, it was Victoria TML I was referring to. Agree there's no point even trying Van, so it depends on your route and altitude, but generally Vic is on the bottom layer, then Van up higher. If you're simply transiting, the least congested bit seems to be via Cherry Point, keeping south of YXX, and 5-6000ft (or whatever it is) in Vic's airspace, and they can do traffic advisories.

But yeah, if you're flying from any of those airports in that area there's not much you can do other than keep a very good lookout.

[scdriver]

Don't fly an exact altitude (+/- 200' instead). Far from ideal but infinitely better than a midair.

How about deleting this suggestion. I don't need other people knowing my secrets to increased safety.

Not sure what’s more abhorrent.

Advocating the use of non standardized cruising altitudes or professing the non adherence to them…

TPC

No such thing as a standard cruising altitude below 3000 which is where most of this clusterfack is congregated.