Hi all,
Interested in converting my Canadian ATPL TO UK/CAA ATPL. Anyone recently completed this process? If someone has, looking for the following info-
-Process
-Timeline
-Possibility of completing process in Canada
-Cost
Anything else that one can think of to give colour on the above would be much appreciated
Thanks in advance!
Conversion of Canadian/ICAO ATPL to UK ATPL
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore
-
slob driver
- Rank 3
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:01 pm
-
LotsOfGravy
- Rank 0
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:48 pm
Re: Conversion of Canadian/ICAO ATPL to UK ATPL
I have been through the process 2-3 years ago. I flew for a company (not an airline and no longer exists) under a Pilot Validation. You can usually get your licence validated and fly for up to 2 years, sometimes 3. However, you must go through your company and has limitations such as being restricted to the employer. Sources: UK Regulation (EU) No.1178/2011 and UK Regulation (EU) No. 2020/723, provided employer satisfies ORO.FCL.100 of UK Reg (EU) 965/2012. I can provide more information if you require.
Medical (stricter requirements):
You must do an Initial Class 1 Medical at an Aeromedical Center. You must go to the UK for this. It can take over a month to get an appointment. Plan a full day for it. You will be issued your medical at the end of it. Before going for the medical you will need to do Cellma (an online portal - don't delay). It should be all explained in the Email you get when you book the medical. You are looking at around $2000 CAD for the medical.
ATPL Exams:
No matter which option you choose, you must complete the 13 ATPL theory exams. I did my exams in the UK, the nearest place to Canada is Florida to do them. These are challenging exams - no electronic flight computers, pass mark of 75%, questions like 'What is the diamater of a droplet of nasal spray? 7-12 micrometers.', Type-in questions and multiple selection drop-down questions. You must pass all 13 exams within 6 sittings. A sitting is a 10 day period. You cannot take any exam more than 4 times. You must pass all exams within 18 months from when you did your first exam. Each exam is $170 CAD, so for all 13 exams, $2200 CAD (assuming first time passes). There may be an additional cost for an invigilator in Florida.
However, before you may do these exams you must have the mandatory 650+ hour classroom/distance-learning course at an Approved Training Organisation (ATO). Don't fret as since you have an ATPL, and hopefully have multi-crew type rating and at minimum 500 hours on type, you will need your licence validated (UK CAA requests TCCA to confirm your licence). I did not have a current type rating, but I managed to get the exemption. This exemption also allows you to skip KSA 100 (knowledge and skills assessment), usually required before sitting the exams. If you have to do groundschool, you will need to pay around $5000 CAD to do it remotely.
ATPL Skills Test:
Conducted in an approved Full Flight Simulator, the simulator needs to hold a UK CAA approval. The Skills test needs to be carried out by a UK CAA licensed Type Rating Examiner. It must be on the same aircraft you have a valid and current type rating on your TCCA ATPL and you must have at least 500 hours on that type. My understanding is that it is quite informal, and the only thing that might get you is raw data approach that's handflown. The rest is quite standard, but I didn't do this route!
ATPL Time Differences- UK vs TCCA
1500 hours total time isn't changed, only the sub-categories. The UK requires 500 hours of multi-pilot time. UK CAA allows PICUS towards PIC time (not an issue if you have TCCA ATPL) and UK CAA requires 100 hours night as PIC or co-pilot. If you meet the other times, you meet or exceed UK ATPL mins.
If you do not have a current type rating or your TCCA ATPL is restricted or you only have a CPL, you can still convert your licence CPL and IR (using Route 1 on bottom of the post). I did it this way, and it was a nightmare. You will need to do training as required for the UK CPL flight test, Multi-engine class rating and Multi-engine IR. You will then get issued a frozen ATPL since you completed your ATPL exams.
Misc
Language proficiency check, multi-crew coordination (MCC) course, AUPRT training... MCC is apparently exempt if you have 500 hours of multi-crew experience, I did, but the company paid me to do it. It is similar to the FAA ATP CTP but on steroids. It takes 3-4 weeks, 30 hours of groundschool, 40 hours on a jet airliner. Most of the MCC's, are Airline Pilot Standard (APS) (thanks Ryanair), this means it is about showing up with a shirt and tie, conducting yourself professionally and flying with very eager pilots as this is the final stage before they will (hopefully) get a job. AUPRT (provided you have 1500 hours in multi-pilot aeroplanes) and current TR, you should be exempt, since Air France 447, it is usually done in 2 days, day of groundschool, and a day of flying (4 hours in an aerobatic aircraft). You can't fail. $3000 CAD for the AUPRT, and if you need it, $5000 for the MCC.
The least painful experience will be getting your UK Category 1 Medical, ATPL exams and ATPL skills test. Provided you meet the requirements.
I have probably forgot some things so feel free to ask questions.
https://www.caa.co.uk/commercial-indust ... uirements/
Medical (stricter requirements):
You must do an Initial Class 1 Medical at an Aeromedical Center. You must go to the UK for this. It can take over a month to get an appointment. Plan a full day for it. You will be issued your medical at the end of it. Before going for the medical you will need to do Cellma (an online portal - don't delay). It should be all explained in the Email you get when you book the medical. You are looking at around $2000 CAD for the medical.
ATPL Exams:
No matter which option you choose, you must complete the 13 ATPL theory exams. I did my exams in the UK, the nearest place to Canada is Florida to do them. These are challenging exams - no electronic flight computers, pass mark of 75%, questions like 'What is the diamater of a droplet of nasal spray? 7-12 micrometers.', Type-in questions and multiple selection drop-down questions. You must pass all 13 exams within 6 sittings. A sitting is a 10 day period. You cannot take any exam more than 4 times. You must pass all exams within 18 months from when you did your first exam. Each exam is $170 CAD, so for all 13 exams, $2200 CAD (assuming first time passes). There may be an additional cost for an invigilator in Florida.
However, before you may do these exams you must have the mandatory 650+ hour classroom/distance-learning course at an Approved Training Organisation (ATO). Don't fret as since you have an ATPL, and hopefully have multi-crew type rating and at minimum 500 hours on type, you will need your licence validated (UK CAA requests TCCA to confirm your licence). I did not have a current type rating, but I managed to get the exemption. This exemption also allows you to skip KSA 100 (knowledge and skills assessment), usually required before sitting the exams. If you have to do groundschool, you will need to pay around $5000 CAD to do it remotely.
ATPL Skills Test:
Conducted in an approved Full Flight Simulator, the simulator needs to hold a UK CAA approval. The Skills test needs to be carried out by a UK CAA licensed Type Rating Examiner. It must be on the same aircraft you have a valid and current type rating on your TCCA ATPL and you must have at least 500 hours on that type. My understanding is that it is quite informal, and the only thing that might get you is raw data approach that's handflown. The rest is quite standard, but I didn't do this route!
ATPL Time Differences- UK vs TCCA
1500 hours total time isn't changed, only the sub-categories. The UK requires 500 hours of multi-pilot time. UK CAA allows PICUS towards PIC time (not an issue if you have TCCA ATPL) and UK CAA requires 100 hours night as PIC or co-pilot. If you meet the other times, you meet or exceed UK ATPL mins.
If you do not have a current type rating or your TCCA ATPL is restricted or you only have a CPL, you can still convert your licence CPL and IR (using Route 1 on bottom of the post). I did it this way, and it was a nightmare. You will need to do training as required for the UK CPL flight test, Multi-engine class rating and Multi-engine IR. You will then get issued a frozen ATPL since you completed your ATPL exams.
Misc
Language proficiency check, multi-crew coordination (MCC) course, AUPRT training... MCC is apparently exempt if you have 500 hours of multi-crew experience, I did, but the company paid me to do it. It is similar to the FAA ATP CTP but on steroids. It takes 3-4 weeks, 30 hours of groundschool, 40 hours on a jet airliner. Most of the MCC's, are Airline Pilot Standard (APS) (thanks Ryanair), this means it is about showing up with a shirt and tie, conducting yourself professionally and flying with very eager pilots as this is the final stage before they will (hopefully) get a job. AUPRT (provided you have 1500 hours in multi-pilot aeroplanes) and current TR, you should be exempt, since Air France 447, it is usually done in 2 days, day of groundschool, and a day of flying (4 hours in an aerobatic aircraft). You can't fail. $3000 CAD for the AUPRT, and if you need it, $5000 for the MCC.
The least painful experience will be getting your UK Category 1 Medical, ATPL exams and ATPL skills test. Provided you meet the requirements.
I have probably forgot some things so feel free to ask questions.
https://www.caa.co.uk/commercial-indust ... uirements/
-
slob driver
- Rank 3
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:01 pm
Re: Conversion of Canadian/ICAO ATPL to UK ATPL
Thank you very much for the information! Much appreciated.
Re: Conversion of Canadian/ICAO ATPL to UK ATPL
That's an excellent overview, LotsOfGravy!
The ATPL theory course is waived for pilots who meet the UK ATPL experience requirements and have a valid rating for the type to be used on the ATPL skill test. See art 3(c) in regulation 2020/723. Second link on the CAA's aviation regulations library, https://regulatorylibrary.caa.co.uk
The inflated APS-version of the MCC course is discretional. The vanilla version is adequate despite industry hype.
"AUPRT (provided you have 1500 hours in multi-pilot aeroplanes) and current TR, you should be exempt..."
Is there a reference supporting this? The general rule (FCL.745.A) establishing the requirement for the advanced UPRT doesn't mention an exemption nor is it stated on the CAA webpage you linked. The CAA does provide an exemption from the practical test for a UK FRTOL (ROC–A), viz the flight radiotelephone operator licence, for pilots with specific experience (1 500 hours of one kind or another); see website you linked.
The ATPL theory course is waived for pilots who meet the UK ATPL experience requirements and have a valid rating for the type to be used on the ATPL skill test. See art 3(c) in regulation 2020/723. Second link on the CAA's aviation regulations library, https://regulatorylibrary.caa.co.uk
The inflated APS-version of the MCC course is discretional. The vanilla version is adequate despite industry hype.
"AUPRT (provided you have 1500 hours in multi-pilot aeroplanes) and current TR, you should be exempt..."
Is there a reference supporting this? The general rule (FCL.745.A) establishing the requirement for the advanced UPRT doesn't mention an exemption nor is it stated on the CAA webpage you linked. The CAA does provide an exemption from the practical test for a UK FRTOL (ROC–A), viz the flight radiotelephone operator licence, for pilots with specific experience (1 500 hours of one kind or another); see website you linked.
