I'm having trouble hand flying approaches and staying in tolerance, I'm sure with more practice this will become easier but I'm having a lot of trouble keeping up. I'm ahead of the plane for about 80% of the flight, but as soon as something unexpected pops up (ex, a CAS error) or tower changing plans on the fly I get hopelessly behind the plane.
For example, on the climbout they changed my waypoint partway through a checklist, I got flustered and ended up missing some items, I also got yelled at for not turning towards the fix since I was still programming the new fix into the GPS. Even with tons of chair flying I will mess things up when I'm at a point where there is a time crunch.
If I do fool someone into passing me, how do I stay proficient? Would it make sense to rent an IFR capable plane every few months and shoot a bunch of approaches, should I go on a cross country and try at several different airports, should I go somewhere very busy or will I risk mucking things up for everyone?
How to become IFR proficient?
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Re: How to become IFR proficient?
This is one of the few situations where I whole heartedly endorse the use of home flight simulators. If your actual flying of the aircraft is up to snuff and you just want to practice IFR - grab x-plane and sign up for vatsim. It'll give you all the ifr practice you need and allows you to jump around and try out different areas. Treat it like you would in flight and still run all your checklists, copy clearances, program your avionics.
When I was at Selkirk college, sim time was free, by the time we were all going for our multi-ifr we had thousands of hours in the sim and you didn't have to think to hard about the IFR portion when you got into the real airplane, which I imagine is now 10 bucks a minute.
When I was at Selkirk college, sim time was free, by the time we were all going for our multi-ifr we had thousands of hours in the sim and you didn't have to think to hard about the IFR portion when you got into the real airplane, which I imagine is now 10 bucks a minute.
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co-joe
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Re: How to become IFR proficient?
I think the key isn't to focus on your perceived weakness here, but rather focus on raising the skill level on the things you can control. Sim time is a great way to do that, look for an ifr skills trainer you can use on your phone. The key is to free up as much of your brain as possible to be present for distractions so the background stuff won't take up as much of your brain. Back to basics, attitude + power = performance.
some of it can be addressed by prioritizing. Aviate - Navigate - Communicate. If you get a re-route while mid checklist, aviate first, keep flying the plane, then change the route, confirm and activate the change, navigate, make sure pizza ordered = pizza delivered (the change happened and the aircraft is doing what you asked it to do, you wouldn't order pizza and then just go to bed hungry if it didn't arrive), and then finally start the checklist over again so nothing gets missed.
Nobody should be yelling at you. Ever. This needs to be addressed outside of the aircraft. If someone like a trainer or crew member is yelling at you, that's not ok, and you need to set boundaries.
some of it can be addressed by prioritizing. Aviate - Navigate - Communicate. If you get a re-route while mid checklist, aviate first, keep flying the plane, then change the route, confirm and activate the change, navigate, make sure pizza ordered = pizza delivered (the change happened and the aircraft is doing what you asked it to do, you wouldn't order pizza and then just go to bed hungry if it didn't arrive), and then finally start the checklist over again so nothing gets missed.
Nobody should be yelling at you. Ever. This needs to be addressed outside of the aircraft. If someone like a trainer or crew member is yelling at you, that's not ok, and you need to set boundaries.
Re: How to become IFR proficient?
My school only has a single engine sim, but every approach in that has been well within the flight test tolerance, it's just that when I get in a plane I become hopelessly incompetent.co-joe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2026 1:10 pm I think the key isn't to focus on your perceived weakness here, but rather focus on raising the skill level on the things you can control. Sim time is a great way to do that, look for an ifr skills trainer you can use on your phone. The key is to free up as much of your brain as possible to be present for distractions so the background stuff won't take up as much of your brain. Back to basics, attitude + power = performance.
some of it can be addressed by prioritizing. Aviate - Navigate - Communicate. If you get a re-route while mid checklist, aviate first, keep flying the plane, then change the route, confirm and activate the change, navigate, make sure pizza ordered = pizza delivered (the change happened and the aircraft is doing what you asked it to do, you wouldn't order pizza and then just go to bed hungry if it didn't arrive), and then finally start the checklist over again so nothing gets missed.
Nobody should be yelling at you. Ever. This needs to be addressed outside of the aircraft. If someone like a trainer or crew member is yelling at you, that's not ok, and you need to set boundaries.
Thanks for the pizza tip!
And there wasn't actual yelling, it just seems I'm always working on someone else's "schedule" my flight test the controller said turn it my discretion, the examiner said turn now even though I hadn't programmed the GPS yet, is one example.
Re: How to become IFR proficient?
The "examiner" shouldn't be telling you anything like "turn now" while you're still tuning a navaid or fix. I'd chalk that up to his problem or insecurity. How can you turn when you aren't configured to navigate yet.
Don't rush, slow it down, it's your aircraft, you control the pace.
If you are interrupted mid check list, start over, slow down.
And yeah, spend time on a PC flight sim, running through the approaches and holds and procedures over and over.
Then sit with your eyes closed and run the flight over and over and over.
Don't rush, slow it down, it's your aircraft, you control the pace.
If you are interrupted mid check list, start over, slow down.
And yeah, spend time on a PC flight sim, running through the approaches and holds and procedures over and over.
Then sit with your eyes closed and run the flight over and over and over.
Re: How to become IFR proficient?
The only time you would be expected to turn now is if atc tells you something like turn now to a specific heading.
Never accept an instruction if you are not ready.
Just ask the examiner/atc to standby while you get ready, pick up your pen, finish your coffee...etc.
The examiner is a passenger, a passenger can do thing, like handing you a chart, watching the sky, looking for the runway.
More than anything else, take your time !
For an handflown ils, it is a matter of scan, the faster your scan the smoother it will since you will be able to anticipate everything thing. And if you have a FD, use it as much as you can. It will make your life a lot easier.
Also, I was never a big fan of those complicated acronyms.
I'd rather ask myself the following question : what do I need next ?
Never accept an instruction if you are not ready.
Just ask the examiner/atc to standby while you get ready, pick up your pen, finish your coffee...etc.
The examiner is a passenger, a passenger can do thing, like handing you a chart, watching the sky, looking for the runway.
More than anything else, take your time !
For an handflown ils, it is a matter of scan, the faster your scan the smoother it will since you will be able to anticipate everything thing. And if you have a FD, use it as much as you can. It will make your life a lot easier.
Also, I was never a big fan of those complicated acronyms.
I'd rather ask myself the following question : what do I need next ?
Re: How to become IFR proficient?
This!
All those stupid acronyms just to make a turn. Unnecessary stress. Just asking myself "what's next" created a lot of mental peace and quiet. "Next turn in 20 seconds? Great, 20 seconds to enjoy the view". It's important to trust yourself though. If for those 20 seconds you keep questioning yourself it defeats the purpose and you will get distracted.
OP, you might prefer different techniques, but try to find something that works. I found a flight sim without force feedback quite useless to practice hand flying. Others find it helpful. Even a sim with feedback should be multitudes cheaper than a live twin.
Would it be an idea to get your single ifr first? It goes a bit slower. Generally the stability of a bigger plane should help you though. Something to consider.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: How to become IFR proficient?
In case no one ever mentioned this to you..You have to keep the scan going, if you're looking at something for more than 4 seconds, you're going to fall behind!
Keep the dirty side down.
Re: How to become IFR proficient?
I honestly chalk up my IFR skill to playing video games all day as a child. My biggest tip is Attitude+Power=Performance. As you know the attitude indicator is your primary instrument. Things get much easier once you have the ability to nail the attitude you want. Use your elevator trim!
Get yourself a basic PC flight simulator and cheap joystick and just sit there maintaining straight and level flight. Watch what happens when you let the pitch attitude deviate. You have to be able to nail the pitch attitude. As you progress try faster aircraft. The faster you go the more you have to keep your pitch attitude perfect to maintain level. Climbs and descents will come naturally as they are the same as level just at a different pitch attitude and power level. Only after you've mastered straight and level should you move onto turns. Now you focus on the pitch attitude and add the additional focus of roll. You have to be able to nail the roll attitude like the pitch.
It's brain training really. Taking in two bits of information, pitch and roll, and telling your hands what to do to control them. It's like building a muscle in the gym. It just takes a certain amount of training.
Get yourself a basic PC flight simulator and cheap joystick and just sit there maintaining straight and level flight. Watch what happens when you let the pitch attitude deviate. You have to be able to nail the pitch attitude. As you progress try faster aircraft. The faster you go the more you have to keep your pitch attitude perfect to maintain level. Climbs and descents will come naturally as they are the same as level just at a different pitch attitude and power level. Only after you've mastered straight and level should you move onto turns. Now you focus on the pitch attitude and add the additional focus of roll. You have to be able to nail the roll attitude like the pitch.
It's brain training really. Taking in two bits of information, pitch and roll, and telling your hands what to do to control them. It's like building a muscle in the gym. It just takes a certain amount of training.
Re: How to become IFR proficient?
The reason the examiner is yelling at him is because the examiner is PIC for the initial Group 1 ride, and it sounds like they were filed IFR. Therefore, the examiner doesn't want deviations on his license and once a clearance is accepted, ATC expects the PIC to comply immediately.
My recommendation? Find a school with a DA42/62 with auto-pilot, G1000 and FADEC engines. Also helps if you're in a non towered airport without a ton of airline traffic. Also helps if the examiner isn't filing an IFR flight plan, and instead enjoying the view on a nice VMC day.
Having recently done my Group 1 IPC using none of the above (steam gauges and a G430 on an old twin), I can tell you there's a reason it's a skill requirement for an ATPL. It is by far the hardest flying you'll ever do. Try to make it easy on yourself.
I also did not have access to any proper sims, and resorted to just chair flying hours a day. It helped, but nothing replicates the real thing with real weather.
Good luck
My recommendation? Find a school with a DA42/62 with auto-pilot, G1000 and FADEC engines. Also helps if you're in a non towered airport without a ton of airline traffic. Also helps if the examiner isn't filing an IFR flight plan, and instead enjoying the view on a nice VMC day.
Having recently done my Group 1 IPC using none of the above (steam gauges and a G430 on an old twin), I can tell you there's a reason it's a skill requirement for an ATPL. It is by far the hardest flying you'll ever do. Try to make it easy on yourself.
I also did not have access to any proper sims, and resorted to just chair flying hours a day. It helped, but nothing replicates the real thing with real weather.
Good luck
Re: How to become IFR proficient?
I have not filed once for IFR, We were doing only simulated SIDs and controller said turns at my discretion.Red_Comet wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2026 1:32 pm The reason the examiner is yelling at him is because the examiner is PIC for the initial Group 1 ride, and it sounds like they were filed IFR. Therefore, the examiner doesn't want deviations on his license and once a clearance is accepted, ATC expects the PIC to comply immediately.
My recommendation? Find a school with a DA42/62 with auto-pilot, G1000 and FADEC engines. Also helps if you're in a non towered airport without a ton of airline traffic. Also helps if the examiner isn't filing an IFR flight plan, and instead enjoying the view on a nice VMC day.
Having recently done my Group 1 IPC using none of the above (steam gauges and a G430 on an old twin), I can tell you there's a reason it's a skill requirement for an ATPL. It is by far the hardest flying you'll ever do. Try to make it easy on yourself.
I also did not have access to any proper sims, and resorted to just chair flying hours a day. It helped, but nothing replicates the real thing with real weather.
Good luck
