Hiring 2027-2028

[vectors4]

How is the hiring outlook looking for 2027/2028 and further? Currently working in Europe for an airline and have Canadian passport and ATPL. What are the current narrowbody upgrade times on the most junior airframes? Are people overall happy with the quality of life? What are the chances of getting assigned a Toronto base?

[Launchpad1]

If it's a Toronto base you want I'd say you'd be pretty happy.

[crystalpizza]

Most junior NB CA currently is a YUL 737 CA hired in mid 2023. Expect that to move minimally if at all for the next significant while.

[twa22]

How is the hiring outlook looking for 2027/2028 and further? Currently working in Europe for an airline and have Canadian passport and ATPL. What are the current narrowbody upgrade times on the most junior airframes? Are people overall happy with the quality of life? What are the chances of getting assigned a Toronto base?

I don't generally make these kind of posts, but if you're in Europe and put in the effort to get your European ATPL, do not leave your Europe for Air Canada or any airline in Canada for that matter. Unless your situation is somehow really, really bad, or all of your family is in Canada, just don't do it. Lots of folks here, myself included (Holder of an EU passport) would move to Europe in a split second if we could. In my case, the time and effort required for the conversion just isn't viable, otherwise I would've been long gone probably

[Sinner]

Here is the how seniority as it relates to positions stands as of the last bid. 26-03 was run in August 2026.

Seniority:

1500 | 2008
1900 | 2013
2500 | 2017
3400 | 2019
3800 | 2022
5000 | 2024
5937 | July 2026

Recent years:

2022 | 3700-4100
2023 | 4100-4900
2024 | 4900-5400
2025 | 5400-5700
2026 | 5700-5900



CMSC 26-03 Junior Position


JUNIOR PILOT - 5937


YUL WB CA - 2119 (330)

YUL NB CA - 4511 (737)

YUL - New Hire


YYZ WB CA - 1853 (330)

YYZ F767 CA - 2721

YYZ NB CA - 4366 (220)

YYZ - New Hire


YWG CA - 2640

YWG FO - 4694


YVR WB CA - 1490 (787)

YVR NB CA - 4053 (220)

YVR - 5702 (320)

[scdriver]

With the massive amount of hiring in the last 4 years, and now being on the backside of that hiring curve and seniority, what would the quality of life look like for a guy hired in 2027 as a commuter from the west coast, ideally holing YVR asap. Late 20s with a family, would it be soul destroying? A decade to get something reasonable? 5 years?

[rudder]

With the massive amount of hiring in the last 4 years, and now being on the backside of that hiring curve and seniority, what would the quality of life look like for a guy hired in 2027 as a commuter from the west coast, ideally holing YVR asap. Late 20s with a family, would it be soul destroying? A decade to get something reasonable? 5 years?

2027 hiring may be near the end of the ‘growth hiring’ cycle. There are some that estimate an end state list around 6500 to meet projected fleet. Others attribute comments from managers suggesting it will be closer to 7000. Regardless, normalization of fuel prices and travel demand to US will have to manifest in order for AC to achieve the maximal version of its commercial plan. The last pilot hired at the end of a cycle will have a very different career progression than the first.

Retirement attrition rates will vary between 2-3.5% per annum. That translates in to seniority progression of 1000 numbers every 5-8 years.

You can apply these two factors to estimate time to hold junior YVR FO. Ignoring YWG, YVR is the most senior base for all positions. Only unknown factor that would alleviate the delay is a commercial plan where YVR benefits from a disproportionate share of the growth.

[altiplano]

With the massive amount of hiring in the last 4 years, and now being on the backside of that hiring curve and seniority, what would the quality of life look like for a guy hired in 2027 as a commuter from the west coast, ideally holing YVR asap. Late 20s with a family, would it be soul destroying? A decade to get something reasonable? 5 years?

Life would be way better if you could do YYZ short term. 3 years or something. I wouldn't want to do YVR-YYZ commute and crash pad, especially junior, with my family at home - that would be soul destroying - the days lost on the commute or sitting in a crash pad are a killer.

In base YYZ you're ahead on schedule, progression, don't need to worry if you're on reserve and sitting at home with your family... then after a few years go to YVR when you can hold the position you want. Good news is home prices are crashing in Southern Ontario too, might be a good time to get a condo and spend a few years in T.O.

[MD11]

How is the hiring outlook looking for 2027/2028 and further? Currently working in Europe for an airline and have Canadian passport and ATPL. What are the current narrowbody upgrade times on the most junior airframes? Are people overall happy with the quality of life? What are the chances of getting assigned a Toronto base?

I don't generally make these kind of posts, but if you're in Europe and put in the effort to get your European ATPL, do not leave your Europe for Air Canada or any airline in Canada for that matter. Unless your situation is somehow really, really bad, or all of your family is in Canada, just don't do it. Lots of folks here, myself included (Holder of an EU passport) would move to Europe in a split second if we could. In my case, the time and effort required for the conversion just isn't viable, otherwise I would've been long gone probably

+1

In base YYZ you're ahead on schedule, progression, don't need to worry if you're on reserve and sitting at home with your family... then after a few years go to YVR when you can hold the position you want. Good news is home prices are crashing in Southern Ontario too, might be a good time to get a condo and spend a few years in T.O.

With AC’s F/O payscale not even surpassing 100K/yr until year 3, is giving advice on buying a condo averaging a million dollars really plausible?

Anyways, recently I spoke with a 787 F/O with 10 years on property and he said he was only about 60% seniority in YVR. Worked an average of 8 days a month including layovers but again, that’s 10 years on property with thousands of numbers behind him now. Last year a Captain in their mid 50’s also based in YVR chose to upgrade to left seat after being RP for nearly 2 decades. Their schedule: reserve. Imagine that, reserve after 20+ years on property.

[altiplano]

With AC’s F/O payscale not even surpassing 100K/yr until year 3, is giving advice on buying a condo averaging a million dollars really plausible?

Advice? It's just casual conversation... and the average Toronto condo price isn't a million dollars and prices are free fall atm... way way cheaper than Vancouver...

Anyway about $95K year 1 now, it's pretty plausible, but just bullshitting, take a pill.

[flieslikeachicken]

Advice? It's just casual conversation... and the average Toronto condo price isn't a million dollars and prices are free fall atm... way way cheaper than Vancouver...

Anyway about $95K year 1 now, it's pretty plausible, but just bullshitting, take a pill.

Try that again. What is the hourly rate for step 1 and what is the minimum guaranteed hours?

[jpilot77]

How is the hiring outlook looking for 2027/2028 and further? Currently working in Europe for an airline and have Canadian passport and ATPL. What are the current narrowbody upgrade times on the most junior airframes? Are people overall happy with the quality of life? What are the chances of getting assigned a Toronto base?

I don't generally make these kind of posts, but if you're in Europe and put in the effort to get your European ATPL, do not leave your Europe for Air Canada or any airline in Canada for that matter. Unless your situation is somehow really, really bad, or all of your family is in Canada, just don't do it. Lots of folks here, myself included (Holder of an EU passport) would move to Europe in a split second if we could. In my case, the time and effort required for the conversion just isn't viable, otherwise I would've been long gone probably

+1

In base YYZ you're ahead on schedule, progression, don't need to worry if you're on reserve and sitting at home with your family... then after a few years go to YVR when you can hold the position you want. Good news is home prices are crashing in Southern Ontario too, might be a good time to get a condo and spend a few years in T.O.

With AC’s F/O payscale not even surpassing 100K/yr until year 3, is giving advice on buying a condo averaging a million dollars really plausible?

Anyways, recently I spoke with a 787 F/O with 10 years on property and he said he was only about 60% seniority in YVR. Worked an average of 8 days a month including layovers but again, that’s 10 years on property with thousands of numbers behind him now. Last year a Captain in their mid 50’s also based in YVR chose to upgrade to left seat after being RP for nearly 2 decades. Their schedule: reserve. Imagine that, reserve after 20+ years on property.

Yeah well if he went left seat on a wide body then yes he might be on reserve. If he had bid left seat narrow body he would be in the top quarter or more in terms of seniority. That’s the thing with AC you have a choice to bid for what you want. Quality of life stay senior as an FO, want money then bid captain as soon as possible etc… Because of the different fleets and seniority bidding there’s lots of difference choices for your career. When you look at WestJet there’s no incentive to stay a senior FO due to communal bidding so everyone basically bids left seat as soon as they can hold it.

[scdriver]

With the massive amount of hiring in the last 4 years, and now being on the backside of that hiring curve and seniority, what would the quality of life look like for a guy hired in 2027 as a commuter from the west coast, ideally holing YVR asap. Late 20s with a family, would it be soul destroying? A decade to get something reasonable? 5 years?

Life would be way better if you could do YYZ short term. 3 years or something. I wouldn't want to do YVR-YYZ commute and crash pad, especially junior, with my family at home - that would be soul destroying - the days lost on the commute or sitting in a crash pad are a killer.

In base YYZ you're ahead on schedule, progression, don't need to worry if you're on reserve and sitting at home with your family... then after a few years go to YVR when you can hold the position you want. Good news is home prices are crashing in Southern Ontario too, might be a good time to get a condo and spend a few years in T.O.

Yeah the YYZ commute would be a real pain, I don’t even live in YVR so 2 legs… unfortunately moving out there is not an option. But with 35 years left gotta look at the long run too. Porter in YVR might be better in the short term, dicier in the long run. No easy choices in this country

[altiplano]

With the massive amount of hiring in the last 4 years, and now being on the backside of that hiring curve and seniority, what would the quality of life look like for a guy hired in 2027 as a commuter from the west coast, ideally holing YVR asap. Late 20s with a family, would it be soul destroying? A decade to get something reasonable? 5 years?

Life would be way better if you could do YYZ short term. 3 years or something. I wouldn't want to do YVR-YYZ commute and crash pad, especially junior, with my family at home - that would be soul destroying - the days lost on the commute or sitting in a crash pad are a killer.

In base YYZ you're ahead on schedule, progression, don't need to worry if you're on reserve and sitting at home with your family... then after a few years go to YVR when you can hold the position you want. Good news is home prices are crashing in Southern Ontario too, might be a good time to get a condo and spend a few years in T.O.

Yeah the YYZ commute would be a real pain, I don’t even live in YVR so 2 legs… unfortunately moving out there is not an option. But with 35 years left gotta look at the long run too. Porter in YVR might be better in the short term, dicier in the long run. No easy choices in this country

I don't mean to totally dissuade you. Lots of guys have done it or are doing it...

Late 20s, your still early to the game and 30+ years even if the first couple years junior were a grind it's probably worth it depending on what's important. The no fault commuter policy takes some stress out, if you give yourself 2 flights and don't make it you can drop flying, but you lose pay. I think there's a lot of demand for a real long call reserve to be negotiated this upcoming round, maybe wishful thinking, but that could make a huge lifestyle difference.

On the last bid Vancouver opened up quite a bit and there was a backlog of demand into it. There should be another bid this month, hopefully more positions opening up in the West. Junior guy last bid in YVR has to be 2026 new hire I think, 5700ish seniority.

More wishful thinking would be when this US dispute ends, when the economy turns up, when the aircraft order delays catch up, you have to think we'll see some more boom time, hopefully vacancies and movement system wide again. Then again if this US dispute goes downhill and the economy takes a dump?

Anyway... good luck. No easy choices is right.

[scdriver]

Life would be way better if you could do YYZ short term. 3 years or something. I wouldn't want to do YVR-YYZ commute and crash pad, especially junior, with my family at home - that would be soul destroying - the days lost on the commute or sitting in a crash pad are a killer.

In base YYZ you're ahead on schedule, progression, don't need to worry if you're on reserve and sitting at home with your family... then after a few years go to YVR when you can hold the position you want. Good news is home prices are crashing in Southern Ontario too, might be a good time to get a condo and spend a few years in T.O.

Yeah the YYZ commute would be a real pain, I don’t even live in YVR so 2 legs… unfortunately moving out there is not an option. But with 35 years left gotta look at the long run too. Porter in YVR might be better in the short term, dicier in the long run. No easy choices in this country

I don't mean to totally dissuade you. Lots of guys have done it or are doing it...

Late 20s, your still early to the game and 30+ years even if the first couple years junior were a grind it's probably worth it depending on what's important. The no fault commuter policy takes some stress out, if you give yourself 2 flights and don't make it you can drop flying, but you lose pay. I think there's a lot of demand for a real long call reserve to be negotiated this upcoming round, maybe wishful thinking, but that could make a huge lifestyle difference.

On the last bid Vancouver opened up quite a bit and there was a backlog of demand into it. There should be another bid this month, hopefully more positions opening up in the West. Junior guy last bid in YVR has to be 2026 new hire I think, 5700ish seniority.

More wishful thinking would be when this US dispute ends, when the economy turns up, when the aircraft order delays catch up, you have to think we'll see some more boom time, hopefully vacancies and movement system wide again. Then again if this US dispute goes downhill and the economy takes a dump?

Anyway... good luck. No easy choices is right.

Lots to think about, thanks, appreciate the insight

[Avcanada123]

With the massive amount of hiring in the last 4 years, and now being on the backside of that hiring curve and seniority, what would the quality of life look like for a guy hired in 2027 as a commuter from the west coast, ideally holing YVR asap. Late 20s with a family, would it be soul destroying? A decade to get something reasonable? 5 years?

2027 hiring may be near the end of the ‘growth hiring’ cycle. There are some that estimate an end state list around 6500 to meet projected fleet. Others attribute comments from managers suggesting it will be closer to 7000. Regardless, normalization of fuel prices and travel demand to US will have to manifest in order for AC to achieve the maximal version of its commercial plan. The last pilot hired at the end of a cycle will have a very different career progression than the first.

Retirement attrition rates will vary between 2-3.5% per annum. That translates in to seniority progression of 1000 numbers every 5-8 years.

You can apply these two factors to estimate time to hold junior YVR FO. Ignoring YWG, YVR is the most senior base for all positions. Only unknown factor that would alleviate the delay is a commercial plan where YVR benefits from a disproportionate share of the growth.

Nobody knows anything but to claim it's the end of the hiring cycle seems pretty far fetched with 350 and 78X coming on property. I know someone who talked to Jenn the hiring manager and she said she is expecting 400 new hires every year until post 2032. This is of course with the huge * of what the economy/jet fuel prices are doing

[rudder]

Nobody knows anything but to claim it's the end of the hiring cycle seems pretty far fetched with 350 and 78X coming on property. I know someone who talked to Jenn the hiring manager and she said she is expecting 400 new hires every year until post 2032. This is of course with the huge * of what the economy/jet fuel prices are doing

Less attrition, that is still a significant amount of growth ((6x400)-(6x150)=1,500). So a seniority list in 2032 on the order of 7500? That is 25% beyond status quo.

By comparison, DAL runs a fleet of approximately 1000 fins with a seniority list of 18000 pilots. AC is projecting a fleet of 288 fins by year end 2027. AC admittedly has a higher ratio of WB vs NB than DAL which impacts aggregated pilot staffing levels.

AC fleet for 2032 is a crystal ball. Orders/options/delivery schedules all subject to change. And AC always reserves the right to park older owned airplanes to deal with lower than planned demand cycles.

01/2027 6050
01/2028 6350-6400
01/2029+ ?

[MorePlates]

Telling a kid to give up his career goals and look for a desk job, that he won't make it in this business because of a few tickets is factually incorrect and out of line. People, especially young people, can be impressionable and they come here for advice and mentoring, maybe they are on the outside looking in on an intimidating business.

Across this industry, and that includes this forum, those of us that have been in it for a while have a responsibility to the people coming in to lift them up, not gatekeep, be responsible in our advice, and treat their aspirations with respect.

Altiplano, my friend! How’ve you been?

I saw your response in another thread about how people in the industry have a responsibility to lift up newcomers rather than gatekeep, to give advice responsibly, and to treat people’s aspirations with a bit of respect.

Something like the little masterpiece below would be a textbook example of that philosophy, wouldn’t it, mate? Or does that principle only apply when it’s convenient?

Cheers, mate. Here’s hoping we can get back to the good old days of fun, mutual respect, and absolutely top-tier hypocrisy.

But fill your boots if you want to be a the hired help for a backwards bunch of sheiks in the desert and go live somewhere else. To each their own.

[altiplano]

Telling a kid to give up his career goals and look for a desk job, that he won't make it in this business because of a few tickets is factually incorrect and out of line. People, especially young people, can be impressionable and they come here for advice and mentoring, maybe they are on the outside looking in on an intimidating business.

Across this industry, and that includes this forum, those of us that have been in it for a while have a responsibility to the people coming in to lift them up, not gatekeep, be responsible in our advice, and treat their aspirations with respect.

Altiplano, my friend! How’ve you been?

I saw your response in another thread about how people in the industry have a responsibility to lift up newcomers rather than gatekeep, to give advice responsibly, and to treat people’s aspirations with a bit of respect.

Something like the little masterpiece below would be a textbook example of that philosophy, wouldn’t it, mate? Or does that principle only apply when it’s convenient?

Cheers, mate. Here’s hoping we can get back to the good old days of fun, mutual respect, and absolutely top-tier hypocrisy.

But fill your boots if you want to be a the hired help for a backwards bunch of sheiks in the desert and go live somewhere else. To each their own.

Who are you? Whatever you're trolling at using a reply that is both out of context and incomplete (edited by a mod to just be the nice part on a closed thread), I'm not buying. Good luck.

[canadianfly]

How is the hiring outlook looking for 2027/2028 and further? Currently working in Europe for an airline and have Canadian passport and ATPL. What are the current narrowbody upgrade times on the most junior airframes? Are people overall happy with the quality of life? What are the chances of getting assigned a Toronto base?

I don't generally make these kind of posts, but if you're in Europe and put in the effort to get your European ATPL, do not leave your Europe for Air Canada or any airline in Canada for that matter. Unless your situation is somehow really, really bad, or all of your family is in Canada, just don't do it. Lots of folks here, myself included (Holder of an EU passport) would move to Europe in a split second if we could. In my case, the time and effort required for the conversion just isn't viable, otherwise I would've been long gone probably

+1

In base YYZ you're ahead on schedule, progression, don't need to worry if you're on reserve and sitting at home with your family... then after a few years go to YVR when you can hold the position you want. Good news is home prices are crashing in Southern Ontario too, might be a good time to get a condo and spend a few years in T.O.

With AC’s F/O payscale not even surpassing 100K/yr until year 3, is giving advice on buying a condo averaging a million dollars really plausible?

Anyways, recently I spoke with a 787 F/O with 10 years on property and he said he was only about 60% seniority in YVR. Worked an average of 8 days a month including layovers but again, that’s 10 years on property with thousands of numbers behind him now. Last year a Captain in their mid 50’s also based in YVR chose to upgrade to left seat after being RP for nearly 2 decades. Their schedule: reserve. Imagine that, reserve after 20+ years on property.

Upgraded after 2 decades or RP
I would flag this as a moderate to severe latent threat

[MorePlates]

Who are you? Whatever you're trolling at using a reply that is both out of context and incomplete (edited by a mod to just be the nice part on a closed thread), I'm not buying. Good luck.

See, now this is the good-boy behaviour I expect from you, knowing when to back down instead of doubling down, especially when the flashbacks from earlier this year start kicking in.

You’ve improved, I’ll give you that. But after seeing the language you used on the other thread, I’ve decided you still need a little more help becoming better. So, I’ll graciously accept your good-luck wishes and give it my best shot.

[Old fella]

Telling a kid to give up his career goals and look for a desk job, that he won't make it in this business because of a few tickets is factually incorrect and out of line. People, especially young people, can be impressionable and they come here for advice and mentoring, maybe they are on the outside looking in on an intimidating business.

Across this industry, and that includes this forum, those of us that have been in it for a while have a responsibility to the people coming in to lift them up, not gatekeep, be responsible in our advice, and treat their aspirations with respect.

Altiplano, my friend! How’ve you been?

I saw your response in another thread about how people in the industry have a responsibility to lift up newcomers rather than gatekeep, to give advice responsibly, and to treat people’s aspirations with a bit of respect.

Something like the little masterpiece below would be a textbook example of that philosophy, wouldn’t it, mate? Or does that principle only apply when it’s convenient?

Cheers, mate. Here’s hoping we can get back to the good old days of fun, mutual respect, and absolutely top-tier hypocrisy.

But fill your boots if you want to be a the hired help for a backwards bunch of sheiks in the desert and go live somewhere else. To each their own.

Who are you? Whatever you're trolling at using a reply that is both out of context and incomplete (edited by a mod to just be the nice part on a closed thread), I'm not buying. Good luck.

Rip off the mask and tis someone you squared off against, there is a certain style and vernacular that is telling , aliases be dammed

[flieslikeachicken]

Who are you? Whatever you're trolling at using a reply that is both out of context and incomplete (edited by a mod to just be the nice part on a closed thread), I'm not buying. Good luck.

[Hangry]

Who are you? Whatever you're trolling at using a reply that is both out of context and incomplete (edited by a mod to just be the nice part on a closed thread), I'm not buying. Good luck.

Hardly popcorn material. Mr Plates sounds like a troll try hard. I’m limp. Alti has much more worthy adversaries here. What is this? Kindergarten?

[MorePlates]

Hardly popcorn material. Mr Plates sounds like a troll try hard. I’m limp. Alti has much more worthy adversaries here. What is this? Kindergarten?

Limp. Kudos on the self awareness.

Better make sure your buddy keeps himself in check, because I'm going to be on a look out for every single comment he puts on this website from now on, and as soon as I find him misbehaving, I'm not going to stop at him having meltdowns like last time, I'll make him get off this website, for good.

Getting back to the original poster : If you’re already flying in Europe and hold an EASA ATPL, think twice before making the move to Canada.

Unless you have a very compelling personal reason to relocate or your entire family is already living in Canada, I genuinely believe you’re better off staying where you are. You’d be surprised how many pilots over here would gladly trade places with you and head back across the Atlantic given the opportunity.