I’m not sure if this is Ai writing this or if you had one too many whiskeys. Why are you so mad at porter/flair/trsnsat: even sunwing? Excecs at thousands of companies take loan facilities in a strategic manner. “Fly the flag” right?350driver wrote: ↑Sat Oct 03, 2026 8:42 am You have to wonder how much longer the Flair/Porter/Transat regimes will last, heavily over leveraged, without proper fuel hedging and management programs, at these elevated oil prices?
Emergency funds don’t sound too good, do they?
Porter also just got leveraged debt out of a BRAZILIAN creditor.
Why did Porter go from being an investment project to now loading up on debt?
I get it. The execs at the top all believe in what they want to accomplish.
At some point, it’s fiction.
People talk as if Covid was some major event.
Was it scary? Did you wonder if you’ll ever fly again? Did fleets get shut down world wide? Did everyone get laid off? Sure.
In actuality oil prices stayed low, and by the time the Russia Ukraine war began elevating oil prices and interest rates, flying was back to profitable levels for most global airlines.
Some of the quickest upgrades occurred at AC in the history of promotions for 2022 new hires. Some can say the temporary lay off of 2020-2021 was met by a catapulting of inexperienced kids into left seats they still have no business being in. All of that to say, many got ahead after Covid. Same at Delta, American, United. Emirates paid 40% in annual salary bonuses two years back to back after Covid. So it wasn’t a net negative, likely a net positive for most pilots in the end.
This oil shock here is worse than whatever COVID did to the industry, mark my words, come back in 3-4 years and see if Porter E jets and Flair are still a thing.
Look at a wide, what’s going on.
WJ consolidates SWG.
Air Canada Rouge becomes 737 Max.
Do yourself a favour, go to any travel website, and tell me which Air Canada airplanes start doing vacation routes they’ve never done starting December 2026? Search routes like YWG PVR. Search YEG MBJ. Search YYC CUN.
Do you think flair will survive on routes that sharks like WJ and AC are competing on as early as a few months from now? How do you compete with 20 airplanes against a world class frequent flyer program? How do you compete against a Royal Bank underwriter issuing points and companion vouchers like candy land?
Pilots always fall for stories such as “we are going to be the next sunwing”
Rarely do they sit there and understand what it means to be sunwing, especially in the new era of Canadian aviation where for the first time AC is taking on expansion on products and routes it left for others.
Who do you think people will prefer? The better seats, better product, highly sought after loyalty / points programmes? Or flair?
The odd duck will try and sound original by saying people will chase price.
Eventually selling $149 to Cancun and back will cripple Flair when people can spend 20,000 Aeroplan points / WestJet dollars plus $49 in taxes and not have to à la cart their experience.
And if they’re really value shopping, swoop is still a fare class with lower pitch in the back 1/3 of WestJet cabins. So what’s the business case for Flair going forward? They already killed lynx. Flair is next. Unless they go back to monetizing charter flying, which would be their only saving grace if our oil and gas sector explodes again. Canadian north and Nolinor however has their fingers in pretty deep on that segment so I reckon 20 airplanes will be too big for a charter outfit at Flair, and there will be casualties by means of layoffs regardless
These are the gambles of going to these outfits.
On the other hand it’s looking like 10+ years before anyone getting hired gets upgraded at AC and probably north of 5-6 years before a widebody FO. The gamble here is the expansion doesn’t workout, and there’s net layoffs too. But even then, where would you rather be on layoff from? A defunct airline or a flag carrier?
Perhaps this finally turns things around and people stop drooling over quick upgrades as a mean to make money, and start uniting on fixing the lower tier of pay/life quality.
Flair will find 40 people this year with shiny jet syndrome who use hope as a strategy or have a weird infatuation with building sunwing 2.0
Out of those 40, about 500 will likely be laid off soon on top of Porters 800 or so, and they will all be competing for not much in the coming years by way of net hiring in this country.
If 1300 or so net layoffs hit the next few years; where would you rather be?
If the goal is Canada, AC and WJ is probably where it’s at and getting in now is probably better than trying later. The new hire bios don’t lie, the experience pool is going back up. Sure the odd 22 year old still gets in, but not like before.
Otherwise go to flair and get your time and go overseas if flying drones or using crash axes as a crm tactic is a thing you’re into. Too soon?
Porter’s deal with Brazilian banks was for financing more aircraft. They are BUYING airplanes. This isn’t a sale leaseback. At least not yet.
Yes they took a low rate loan with the government. Which was the government program. Why not take advantage of credit facilities at low rates when they are available if you have correct planning. Flair is still alive, everyone is still alive. Just chill.
