http://www.startribune.com/stories/465/5787725.html
I've removed the booster cables and tire iron from car just in case they think I might change a tire or boost a battery while on the US side. I don't want to give the wrong impression.
Doug Grow. Those leaky national borders so many people fret about?
Not, apparently, a Minnesota problem -- at least in International Falls, where agents of the United States Customs and Border Protection are cracking down on people who might seem like innocents to the untrained among us.
Take the case of Canadians Bob and Diana Hawley. On Nov. 2, they approached the border as they have for the past 20 years. The Kenora, Ontario, couple was headed to what they consider their winter home, an $850-a-month condo in Panama City, Fla.
The same group of people -- a blend of Americans and Canadians -- has been gathering at the same complex for years.
"We're like family," said Diana Hawley.
The family will be a little smaller this year. The Hawleys were -- gasp! -- attempting to transport a small yellow box of tools across the border. Agents spotted the toolbox and told the couple they were not welcome to enter the United States.
"They said we must be going to Florida to do work," Diana Hawley said. "We tried to tell them that we always carry the toolbox in the car. If there's a breakdown, we might need it. And once we get to Panama City we might want to hang a picture or change a light bulb."
For the first hour of the interrogation, the Hawleys kept thinking this was just a misunderstanding. They have a hard time seeing how they can be confused with construction workers. He's 71, she's 70. He wears a knee brace and doesn't get around so easily.
By the second hour, they knew it was serious.
"And we knew we were in real trouble when they photographed us and fingerprinted us," she said.
Then U.S. officials shipped the Hawleys back to Canada. When they stopped at the customs office on the Canadian side of the border, Diana Hawley got emotional. "The girl at Canadian customs said, 'Why were you refused?' I just started to cry."
The Canadian customs official was stunned. A little yellow toolbox?
Going home was not simple. The Hawleys had to cancel the U.S. health insurance they purchase each year. They had to cancel their reservation at the condo. And on and on.
But, surprisingly, the Hawleys still would like to come back to the U.S. They've written letters to a number of U.S. politicians trying to figure out how they can get their good names back.
"We lay awake at night asking ourselves, 'What did we do wrong?' " she said. "We want our names cleared."
Those efforts so far have been futile.
On Tuesday, the Hawleys received a letter from Mary Delaquis, a Border Protection supervisor.
"... You had been and intended to perform service in the U.S., therefore, you were not eligible to be admitted," she wrote. "The officers were correct."
Mike Miln, a public affairs officer with Border Protection's Seattle office, scoffed at the notion that border agents might have made a mistake. "Our officers make determinations of the facts in front of them," he said.
He did say the Hawleys can reapply for entry by showing up at International Falls again.
Not surprisingly, the hammerin' Hawleys are a little nervous about closing their home and heading to the border with a red flag on their names.
"We think we need our names cleared first," said Diana Hawley. "We don't know what they might find in our car this time."
Doug Grow • dgrow@startribune.com
US Border cracks down on 70 year olds.
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Driving Rain
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That's what you get when you take a bunch of grade 10 grads, give them a few weeks of vocational school, and give them guns and badges! Too bad our own customs people dont have the balls to treat Americans the same way. Like, go fish in your own stinking lakes! Turn the pricks around at our border, and make them hunt in their own country! We could play that game too.....'cept, of course, we dont have the balls!
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just clearing the trees
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bushwhacker
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Doc.Doc wrote:That's what you get when you take a bunch of grade 10 grads, give them a few weeks of vocational school, and give them guns and badges! Too bad our own customs people dont have the balls to treat Americans the same way. Like, go fish in your own stinking lakes! Turn the pricks around at our border, and make them hunt in their own country! We could play that game too.....'cept, of course, we dont have the balls!
You can take comfort in knowing that the Border People on both sides of the line in Northern Ontario are equal A- Holes.
They are like a bunch of kids pissing in each others sand box, with no common sense eminating from either side ( sort of like dealing with any goverment agency ) .
I'm willing to bet that people crossing at any other border crossing in Canada and the USA don't get the shit and abuse suffered by the folks that use the three crossings in NORTHWEST ONTARIO.
Obviously Doc, you are a government employee or you would understand the importance of the Tourism Industry for Northwestern Ontario .
Its attitudes like yours that harm relathionships for people on both sides of the border.
To play devils advocate for a minute, I notice this article does not say what this gentleman did for a living before retirement, does not say what the tools were, and does not include the full statements the couple would have provided during questioning.
What if this guy had been a finish carpenter, the tool box contained wood working tools, and his wife had disclosed that some friends or the condo owner were going to give him a few dollars for helping them with some projects? What if they were getting a discount on the condo in exchange for doing some maintenance work?
What if this guy had been a finish carpenter, the tool box contained wood working tools, and his wife had disclosed that some friends or the condo owner were going to give him a few dollars for helping them with some projects? What if they were getting a discount on the condo in exchange for doing some maintenance work?
Just like the dumb ass Canadian customs agents they have at YVR. Of course I get the "random" search because I'm wearing my uniform. Low and behold, they find my ceremonial Mameluke sword, which couldn't cut warm butter, let alone slice anything. But being a foregner, they threatend to take it away, as some sort of weapon.
A lack of commen sense knows no boundries.
A lack of commen sense knows no boundries.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
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Driving Rain
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Do I look like a terrorist? Okay, loaded question.
I demand respect from those that work for me, and with me. I , in kind, return that respect (it's part of what succesful leaders do). It's called "customs and courtesies." It's not just a military thing.
Everywhere I go in the US, someone offers to buy me a drink, or a meal. At the minimum shakes my hand and says thank you. I feel very honored. I say thank you, and decline any drink or meal they offer. Its a very good feeling.
I come to Canada to visit friends and family, and don't get the same response. No big deal, I don't deserve it in the US either.
To have some POS customs agent belittle me, and my uniform that pisses me off. When he says that I shouldn't have a sword that I've EARNED, that crosses the line. Tradition is a very big word in the Marine Corps, and the uniform we wear is part of that tradition. If I brought back my M-16 or M-9 pistol I could see his concern, but a uniform item?
My dislike of the border agents stems from when I first would see my OSO (officer selection officer(recruiter)) and I'd drive across the border at least 2-3 times a week. Going into the States, I'd get a thank you and drive on through. Returning, I'd get searched, asked why I wanted to join etc... Only one Canadian agent thanked me for serving, of the few dozen I dealt with.
Do you (Canadians in general) forget that you have troops in peace keeping missions that are getting shot at on a daily basis? Don't they deserve the same, if not more respect than I get when I'm in the US?
I demand respect from those that work for me, and with me. I , in kind, return that respect (it's part of what succesful leaders do). It's called "customs and courtesies." It's not just a military thing.
Everywhere I go in the US, someone offers to buy me a drink, or a meal. At the minimum shakes my hand and says thank you. I feel very honored. I say thank you, and decline any drink or meal they offer. Its a very good feeling.
I come to Canada to visit friends and family, and don't get the same response. No big deal, I don't deserve it in the US either.
To have some POS customs agent belittle me, and my uniform that pisses me off. When he says that I shouldn't have a sword that I've EARNED, that crosses the line. Tradition is a very big word in the Marine Corps, and the uniform we wear is part of that tradition. If I brought back my M-16 or M-9 pistol I could see his concern, but a uniform item?
My dislike of the border agents stems from when I first would see my OSO (officer selection officer(recruiter)) and I'd drive across the border at least 2-3 times a week. Going into the States, I'd get a thank you and drive on through. Returning, I'd get searched, asked why I wanted to join etc... Only one Canadian agent thanked me for serving, of the few dozen I dealt with.
Do you (Canadians in general) forget that you have troops in peace keeping missions that are getting shot at on a daily basis? Don't they deserve the same, if not more respect than I get when I'm in the US?
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
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Driving Rain
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We've all probably had our moments at the border.
These poor buggers are in for a treat.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005 ... 89-ap.html
Nark, I've been mistaken for my brother on a couple of occasions. He's been dead now for 8 years. He had shall we say a checkered past and a few run in's with the law. The U.S. Customs and Immigration finally updated their records and it's back to smooth sailing for me.
One thing to remember is that when your at a border crossing any border crossing...your literally in NO MANS LAND. It's not the time to demand respect, your rights or anything, whether you deserve it or not. They hire agents with no sense of humour. I always play it straight, never answer questions without a careful consideration of what the consequences of my answer will be. Yes or no is the best bet.
These poor buggers are in for a treat.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005 ... 89-ap.html
Nark, I've been mistaken for my brother on a couple of occasions. He's been dead now for 8 years. He had shall we say a checkered past and a few run in's with the law. The U.S. Customs and Immigration finally updated their records and it's back to smooth sailing for me.
One thing to remember is that when your at a border crossing any border crossing...your literally in NO MANS LAND. It's not the time to demand respect, your rights or anything, whether you deserve it or not. They hire agents with no sense of humour. I always play it straight, never answer questions without a careful consideration of what the consequences of my answer will be. Yes or no is the best bet.
Nark:
Just why do you think that a Canadian customs agent should thank you for being in the USMC? It's something that you chose to do, and in your words from another post you get to do some "pretty cool stuff" in the corps. If you love what you do, great! That's it's own reward. If you don't love what you do, you're in the wrong line of work.
When you were a civilian in Canada (and nobody is born with a uniform on) how often did you come up to a soldier in the street and ofer to buy them a meal or a drink? Shake their hand and say "thanks"?
I'd also suggest that any time you want to take an international flight carrying any sort of weapon (and dull or not, a sword is a weapon), it might be a good idea to check with the customs authority that you'll be passing through. Yes, I know that a sword is a normal part of full dress uniform for many military officers. At one point my full dress uniform included no less than three separate edged weapons.
Yes, I know that the uniform and ID validate your status...but in a post 9/11 climate, do you really expect a customs officer to take everything at face value? Or to make an on-the-spot determination as to the effectiveness of that particular sword as a weapon, and the authenticity of your uniform and ID?
Paranoia is the norm. As ridiculous as it may seem at times, if you want to go through a border crossing without a hassle, you need to think ahead. Make the custom officer's decision about you as simple as possible - because they've got all the power. Smile at them. Be pleasant, and answer their questions clearly and quickly. Don't get yourself into a huff if they ask more questions than you expect. Be aware that they don't know your story, and their view of you is subjective.
Or maybe the guys at YVR just checked you out so that they couldn't be accused of profiling.
Just why do you think that a Canadian customs agent should thank you for being in the USMC? It's something that you chose to do, and in your words from another post you get to do some "pretty cool stuff" in the corps. If you love what you do, great! That's it's own reward. If you don't love what you do, you're in the wrong line of work.
When you were a civilian in Canada (and nobody is born with a uniform on) how often did you come up to a soldier in the street and ofer to buy them a meal or a drink? Shake their hand and say "thanks"?
I'd also suggest that any time you want to take an international flight carrying any sort of weapon (and dull or not, a sword is a weapon), it might be a good idea to check with the customs authority that you'll be passing through. Yes, I know that a sword is a normal part of full dress uniform for many military officers. At one point my full dress uniform included no less than three separate edged weapons.
Yes, I know that the uniform and ID validate your status...but in a post 9/11 climate, do you really expect a customs officer to take everything at face value? Or to make an on-the-spot determination as to the effectiveness of that particular sword as a weapon, and the authenticity of your uniform and ID?
Paranoia is the norm. As ridiculous as it may seem at times, if you want to go through a border crossing without a hassle, you need to think ahead. Make the custom officer's decision about you as simple as possible - because they've got all the power. Smile at them. Be pleasant, and answer their questions clearly and quickly. Don't get yourself into a huff if they ask more questions than you expect. Be aware that they don't know your story, and their view of you is subjective.
Or maybe the guys at YVR just checked you out so that they couldn't be accused of profiling.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
Nark:
Just why do you think that a Canadian customs agent should thank you for being in the USMC? It's something that you chose to do, and in your words from another post you get to do some "pretty cool stuff" in the corps. If you love what you do, great! That's it's own reward. If you don't love what you do, you're in the wrong line of work.
When you were a civilian in Canada (and nobody is born with a uniform on) how often did you come up to a soldier in the street and ofer to buy them a meal or a drink? Shake their hand and say "thanks"?
I'd also suggest that any time you want to take an international flight carrying any sort of weapon (and dull or not, a sword is a weapon), it might be a good idea to check with the customs authority that you'll be passing through. Yes, I know that a sword is a normal part of full dress uniform for many military officers. At one point my full dress uniform included no less than three separate edged weapons.
Yes, I know that the uniform and ID validate your status...but in a post 9/11 climate, do you really expect a customs officer to take everything at face value? Or to make an on-the-spot determination as to the effectiveness of that particular sword as a weapon, and the authenticity of your uniform and ID?
Paranoia is the norm. As ridiculous as it may seem at times, if you want to go through a border crossing without a hassle, you need to think ahead. Make the custom officer's decision about you as simple as possible - because they've got all the power. Smile at them. Be pleasant, and answer their questions clearly and quickly. Don't get yourself into a huff if they ask more questions than you expect. Be aware that they don't know your story, and their view of you is subjective.
Or maybe the guys at YVR just checked you out so that they couldn't be accused of profiling.
Just why do you think that a Canadian customs agent should thank you for being in the USMC? It's something that you chose to do, and in your words from another post you get to do some "pretty cool stuff" in the corps. If you love what you do, great! That's it's own reward. If you don't love what you do, you're in the wrong line of work.
When you were a civilian in Canada (and nobody is born with a uniform on) how often did you come up to a soldier in the street and ofer to buy them a meal or a drink? Shake their hand and say "thanks"?
I'd also suggest that any time you want to take an international flight carrying any sort of weapon (and dull or not, a sword is a weapon), it might be a good idea to check with the customs authority that you'll be passing through. Yes, I know that a sword is a normal part of full dress uniform for many military officers. At one point my full dress uniform included no less than three separate edged weapons.
Yes, I know that the uniform and ID validate your status...but in a post 9/11 climate, do you really expect a customs officer to take everything at face value? Or to make an on-the-spot determination as to the effectiveness of that particular sword as a weapon, and the authenticity of your uniform and ID?
Paranoia is the norm. As ridiculous as it may seem at times, if you want to go through a border crossing without a hassle, you need to think ahead. Make the custom officer's decision about you as simple as possible - because they've got all the power. Smile at them. Be pleasant, and answer their questions clearly and quickly. Don't get yourself into a huff if they ask more questions than you expect. Be aware that they don't know your story, and their view of you is subjective.
Or maybe the guys at YVR just checked you out so that they couldn't be accused of profiling.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
I always fly in uniform traveling from the states. Why? Because I'm proud to wear that uniform and I like talking to people about being in the Marine Corps. I'm always wearing some sort of shirt that has the EGA, or something USMC on it. You could say I'm moto.
My sword was in my checked bag's. I had just left my MOS school, and on the way to my duty station. I had a few days leave, and naturally come to canada to visit, thus me having all my trash with me. (trash being a term meaning stuff, thing etc...)
Don't get me wrong, I don't want a thank you from a border agent, however I don't think I should get the third degree 99% of the time I pass through into your country.
Four years ago I bought a guy a drink in a bar in Chilliwack, BC. The only reason I knew he was in the Canadian forces was because he was telling the whole bar. As far as I know, thats the only guy I've ever run into. You don't see alot of military people around in Canada, especially in Northern Sask, and MB
I may come off as an aggressive person, the way I portray myself on here, however I'm quite the opposite. I don't get excited very easily. There are a few people on this message board that can atest to that.
Merry Christmas.
My sword was in my checked bag's. I had just left my MOS school, and on the way to my duty station. I had a few days leave, and naturally come to canada to visit, thus me having all my trash with me. (trash being a term meaning stuff, thing etc...)
Don't get me wrong, I don't want a thank you from a border agent, however I don't think I should get the third degree 99% of the time I pass through into your country.
Four years ago I bought a guy a drink in a bar in Chilliwack, BC. The only reason I knew he was in the Canadian forces was because he was telling the whole bar. As far as I know, thats the only guy I've ever run into. You don't see alot of military people around in Canada, especially in Northern Sask, and MB
I may come off as an aggressive person, the way I portray myself on here, however I'm quite the opposite. I don't get excited very easily. There are a few people on this message board that can atest to that.
Merry Christmas.
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
U also should take in some ppl target ppl. U wearing a USMC Uni in Canada is going to turn some heads. Some Canadians are not impressed with the US forces. Thats like those kids who drive those cars with loud mufflers/dressed up and wonder y the police pick them out. I got turned back at the US border once cuz i drove one of those cars over, they thought I was trouble. Even showing them my Cdn Forces ID did nothing, I still got allsorts of Qs asked of me and was held up for 2 hours, so it happens on both sides.
I dont know if in the regs u can wear ur uni for travel but in the reseves we would have been chraged had we gone around and played dress up to wave the flag even staying in Canada
I dont know if in the regs u can wear ur uni for travel but in the reseves we would have been chraged had we gone around and played dress up to wave the flag even staying in Canada
That's a valid point, Ronner. Wearing a USMC uniform does make you a target - be it for "attaboys" or less positive sentiments.
I don't believe that there's anything in the QR&O's about wearing a uniform for travel. I know that I've recieved joining instructions for various courses/battleschools that specified CF dress for travel. As such, I've traveled in CF dress on a number of occasions.
I'd also like to add that more than one or two female flight attendants have had a VERY positive reaction to a guy in a kilt getting on board an aircraft. Not all women like kilts, but it seems to me that those that like them, REALLY like them.
I don't believe that there's anything in the QR&O's about wearing a uniform for travel. I know that I've recieved joining instructions for various courses/battleschools that specified CF dress for travel. As such, I've traveled in CF dress on a number of occasions.
I'd also like to add that more than one or two female flight attendants have had a VERY positive reaction to a guy in a kilt getting on board an aircraft. Not all women like kilts, but it seems to me that those that like them, REALLY like them.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
Hmmm..."personal travel"...does that include a trip out clubbing after a mess dinner?
Female flight attendants respond well to guys in kilts. Female students (and nurses and dental hygenists and...) respond even better to guys in kilts and mess kit
Female flight attendants respond well to guys in kilts. Female students (and nurses and dental hygenists and...) respond even better to guys in kilts and mess kit
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
Last time I checked, it was a while ago and could have changed, wearing your Canadian uniform across the border was prohibited unless on official business that was approved by both countries. I would assume the same applies to US personnel coming north.
Nark, if you want to dress up in your USMC uniform, and pack a sword, to show off on personal travel to foreign countries, you should not be surprised when you draw "heat" on yourself. That uniform might make you the apple of your mothers eye, but it means f all to the rest of us.
Nark, if you want to dress up in your USMC uniform, and pack a sword, to show off on personal travel to foreign countries, you should not be surprised when you draw "heat" on yourself. That uniform might make you the apple of your mothers eye, but it means f all to the rest of us.
This is my last post in this thread.
I wear Dress Deltas when I travel.
"This uniform is authorized for leave or liberty" from MCO P1020.34
Pics:
Dress Blues
MCCU's
Uniform Regulations
I wear Dress Deltas when I travel.
"This uniform is authorized for leave or liberty" from MCO P1020.34
Pics:
Dress Blues
MCCU's
Uniform Regulations
Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Semper Fidelis
“De inimico non loquaris male, sed cogites"-
Do not wish death for your enemy, plan it.
Ireland: Entering the State wearing a foreign uniform without permission of the Irish Government is an offence under the 1954 Defence Act, s317. Fine as amended by 1987 Defence (Amendment) Act of 250 pounds (I suppose about 300 Euros now).
As best I can see this one is still on the books.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA18Y1954S317.html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1987_8.html
Presumably the regular ATA flights US-EINN-Middle East-EINN-US have the requisite permission, given the long queue in desert fatigues I was behind at the Shannon duty free counter on 1.1.05.
(oh and nark - since YVR is not in the United States surely 1005.4b applies? I suppose we'll never know since you have left the thread...)
As best I can see this one is still on the books.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA18Y1954S317.html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1987_8.html
Presumably the regular ATA flights US-EINN-Middle East-EINN-US have the requisite permission, given the long queue in desert fatigues I was behind at the Shannon duty free counter on 1.1.05.
(oh and nark - since YVR is not in the United States surely 1005.4b applies? I suppose we'll never know since you have left the thread...)
