Just wondering what advice people here can give me, is it better to mail out a bunch of resumes, and follw them up by visiting, or to just show up on the doorstep wth a resume in my hand? I can see advantages and disadvantages to both.
ST
Mailing Resumes vs Showing Up Unannounced
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Redneck_pilot86
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Mailing Resumes vs Showing Up Unannounced
The only three things a wingman should ever say: 1. "Two's up" 2. "You're on fire" 3. "I'll take the fat one"
It is tough because all companies are different. Pick the company you want and do some research. Call and just talk to whoever answers. No need to ask for the cp. The person who picks up the phone will tell you what the cp likes, what the company likes, and all sorts of other goodies.
Thats my opinion, its not as if I actually know anything.
Thats my opinion, its not as if I actually know anything.
The bad news is time flies. The good news is you’re a pilot.
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sprucemonkey
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I've faxed a resume and drove 13 hrs to see it made it. I got the job that evening. But it was luck. Do both if you can. It will land on the desk of the CP and show determination if ya show up as well. Unless some rampie throws it out instead. 
It worked 'cause he's now PC12 capt'n. 
It worked 'cause he's now PC12 capt'n. -
Redneck_pilot86
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complexintentions
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http://www.pilotcareercenter.com/
Click on "Air Carrier Info" on the left. Honestly, what are they teaching the kids in (flight) school these days?!
Click on "Air Carrier Info" on the left. Honestly, what are they teaching the kids in (flight) school these days?!
I’m still waiting for my white male privilege membership card. Must have gotten lost in the mail.
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Dust Devil
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don't phone though if the ads say no phone calls. you would think that would be obvious but you would be surprised at how many people don't pay attention to it.MRO wrote:It is tough because all companies are different. Pick the company you want and do some research. Call and just talk to whoever answers. No need to ask for the cp. The person who picks up the phone will tell you what the cp likes, what the company likes, and all sorts of other goodies.
Thats my opinion, its not as if I actually know anything.
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angry inch
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If you're fishing for a job anywhere, instead of just specific operators, I think a large scale mail-out is the way to go. I got my last two flyin' jobs that way... keep the resume short & send a decent cover letter to give'em an idea about your personality. There is a great catalogue of operators out there, complete with a/c in the fleet & contact names, but I don't remember what it's called. Has other countries also. Maybe someone else on here can help with that??
When I was a CP doing some hiring, I would take the resume for every pilot that just showed up unannounced and tossed it in the round file. I was too busy to stop, loose my train of thought, interupt essential duties, etc etc to talk to some wannabe that did not meet our requirements. Now, if we advertised, that was a different story because I was prepared for drop ins. When I went to other companies, the CP there had much to same policy.
Resumes, on the other hand were filed and kept for a year, complete with updates.
That is the way to go.
Resumes, on the other hand were filed and kept for a year, complete with updates.
That is the way to go.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
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Redneck_pilot86
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Complexintentions, thanks for the site its exactly what I was looking for. Flight schools teach us how to "fly" and put up with BS, but nothing about how to find that first job.
Angryinch, if you discover the name of that catalogue I would be interested in it, or anyone else who knows the name of it...
Oldtimer, thats what I was afraid of with just showing up unannounced, because that is probably the reaction that I woul have to it, but I also don't think that I would want to work for someone I had never met, so it is looking like mailing and then following it up with a visit is the best way to go.
Anybody have any tips for things to do during the visit? I've got no problem helping out or whatever, especially if it helps nail a job, but I don't want to try to help and screw something up...that can't go over too well.
Also, when faxing a resume should I call first? I dont know about most places, but the flight school I first went to used the same line for fax and phone, so I can see a problem with faxing a resume unannounced as well.
ST
Angryinch, if you discover the name of that catalogue I would be interested in it, or anyone else who knows the name of it...
Oldtimer, thats what I was afraid of with just showing up unannounced, because that is probably the reaction that I woul have to it, but I also don't think that I would want to work for someone I had never met, so it is looking like mailing and then following it up with a visit is the best way to go.
Anybody have any tips for things to do during the visit? I've got no problem helping out or whatever, especially if it helps nail a job, but I don't want to try to help and screw something up...that can't go over too well.
Also, when faxing a resume should I call first? I dont know about most places, but the flight school I first went to used the same line for fax and phone, so I can see a problem with faxing a resume unannounced as well.
ST
The only three things a wingman should ever say: 1. "Two's up" 2. "You're on fire" 3. "I'll take the fat one"
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Rubberbiscuit
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Go for the shock and awe! May I recommend showing up in just a tie and shoes.......or wear a Darth Vader costume and serve the resume on the tip of your fancysword!
On a more serious note, send the resume out first and show up later. Announced or unannounced? Depend on the type of operation.
On a more serious note, send the resume out first and show up later. Announced or unannounced? Depend on the type of operation.
"Nearly all safety regulations are based upon lessons which have been paid for in blood by those who attempted what you are contemplating" Tony Kern
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Redneck_pilot86
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angry inch
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The book you want is called JP Fleet International. It is available on CD Rom or in book form, and is worth slightly over $100. Best money you will ever spend. Its accurate to within about 6 months in Canada, and covers pretty much every country in the world plus has great photos. It doesn't relieve you of the burden of additional research though, no resource will. Unless the Aviation Business Directories have improved, I don't recommend them as they used to be full of errors, and they won't cover outside Canada.
As to showing up vs. mail/fax/phone - how bad do you want the job and/or are already you on a road trip? If its a job you want really badly, send your resume, follow it up with a phone call, mention you will be in the general area at such and such a time/date, could you pay a visit in person.
If you do show up unannounced for whatever reason, show some diplomacy, courtesy and tact. You want to come across as resourceful and persistent, but not as a pain in the ass. If the CP or other VIP is visibly busy or otherwise pre-occupied, ask if you can either talk while you help them (ie load airplane) or if you can come back later that day/next day. Even better, if they are about to go on a flight, ask if you can tag along. Pay attention to how you are being received. If they are obviously busy, politely excuse yourself and try again later. Leave your resume as a calling card and follow it up by phone or in person as you determine best, based on the situation.
Most CP I know, myself included, will always try to make a bit of time for someone who took the trouble to show up, particularly if they look the part and know something about the company to which they are applying. At the very least, I and others will try to send you on your way with a bit of encouragement or a lead if we have one to give.
Hint: if you are going to the effort to drive 1000 miles to show up in person, dress the part of the intended employment and make it a point to do some local research before you show up on the company's doorstep. Be very polite and courteous to any receptionist or person answering the phone as you never know when it may be the owner, owner's spouse or trusted advisor. Receptionists and secretaries can often be your best source of inside information, particularly if you confide in them and ask them for information/advice prior to tackling the CP/owner. Don't be afraid to tell them you just drove 1000 miles for your dream job, slept in your car and haven't eaten in a week because you could barely afford the gas. Don't ignore the rampie/broom-pusher as your other best source of information either. You never know when this person may be the owner, helpful comrade or your next co-worker.
Other hint: owners/cp can be women too so never discount that whomever you are talking to might be the big cheese.
Good luck in your search/travels,
Snoopy
As to showing up vs. mail/fax/phone - how bad do you want the job and/or are already you on a road trip? If its a job you want really badly, send your resume, follow it up with a phone call, mention you will be in the general area at such and such a time/date, could you pay a visit in person.
If you do show up unannounced for whatever reason, show some diplomacy, courtesy and tact. You want to come across as resourceful and persistent, but not as a pain in the ass. If the CP or other VIP is visibly busy or otherwise pre-occupied, ask if you can either talk while you help them (ie load airplane) or if you can come back later that day/next day. Even better, if they are about to go on a flight, ask if you can tag along. Pay attention to how you are being received. If they are obviously busy, politely excuse yourself and try again later. Leave your resume as a calling card and follow it up by phone or in person as you determine best, based on the situation.
Most CP I know, myself included, will always try to make a bit of time for someone who took the trouble to show up, particularly if they look the part and know something about the company to which they are applying. At the very least, I and others will try to send you on your way with a bit of encouragement or a lead if we have one to give.
Hint: if you are going to the effort to drive 1000 miles to show up in person, dress the part of the intended employment and make it a point to do some local research before you show up on the company's doorstep. Be very polite and courteous to any receptionist or person answering the phone as you never know when it may be the owner, owner's spouse or trusted advisor. Receptionists and secretaries can often be your best source of inside information, particularly if you confide in them and ask them for information/advice prior to tackling the CP/owner. Don't be afraid to tell them you just drove 1000 miles for your dream job, slept in your car and haven't eaten in a week because you could barely afford the gas. Don't ignore the rampie/broom-pusher as your other best source of information either. You never know when this person may be the owner, helpful comrade or your next co-worker.
Other hint: owners/cp can be women too so never discount that whomever you are talking to might be the big cheese.
Good luck in your search/travels,
Snoopy
“Never interrupt someone doing something you said couldn’t be done.” Amelia Earhart
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Dust Devil
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C'mon. A Vader cosume for a bush operation in Canada at this time of year? Reread the part about dressing for the operation. Chewbacca is certainly more appropriate. Looks like the flightschools are letting folks down again. Sheesh 
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
If you show up unannounced, or just to check to see that your CV was received, I am going to shake your hand, take a few minutes and look at your resume, thank you for your time, walk you to the door, give you a big hug and wish you well. Then I am going to go back and throw your resume in the garbage. You will then no doubt write on these threads how your experience at walking in was so successful...It wasnt, but I am not going to make an enemy of someone I dont know...even if they are wasting my time. (aw, shucks, I'd hire you at the drop of a hat son, but your resume says you have 8723 hr PIC and our insurers require a minimum of 8724.-- Dont mistake being polite with liking you.
And before anyone gets all pissy about two faced employers, remember it was you who barged in unannounced.
All these guys telling you to drop in dont seem to understand that you are one of about 6 a day....do the math on the time that takes out of a day for your prospective employer and maybe you will have some idea. This is particularily frustrating if you are not qualified and/or the company has not been looking for a pilot.
Now...if you are going to the bush, dropping in during the slow season is not to be frowned upon, and sometimes it is good , though I think there are alot of pilots who after expending huge energy to get a job seem to lose it once they get the job.
I know it is frustrating to just send out resumes, so perhaps I can offer this advice. Instead of sending out a resume, send out a nice short letter saying what youlooking for work and asking if they will accept your resume... You will be surprised how often you will get a response if people are looking for a pilot AND it will get to the top of the pile...Not like the 30 or so that are emailed in unsolicited every week.
Good luck. The first job is the hardest to get.
And before anyone gets all pissy about two faced employers, remember it was you who barged in unannounced.
All these guys telling you to drop in dont seem to understand that you are one of about 6 a day....do the math on the time that takes out of a day for your prospective employer and maybe you will have some idea. This is particularily frustrating if you are not qualified and/or the company has not been looking for a pilot.
Now...if you are going to the bush, dropping in during the slow season is not to be frowned upon, and sometimes it is good , though I think there are alot of pilots who after expending huge energy to get a job seem to lose it once they get the job.
I know it is frustrating to just send out resumes, so perhaps I can offer this advice. Instead of sending out a resume, send out a nice short letter saying what youlooking for work and asking if they will accept your resume... You will be surprised how often you will get a response if people are looking for a pilot AND it will get to the top of the pile...Not like the 30 or so that are emailed in unsolicited every week.
Good luck. The first job is the hardest to get.
Last edited by trey kule on Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
http://www.aviationworld.net/categories ... 6&c=284233
You may be looking for JP Airline Fleets or Aviation Business Directory (Canada) 2005
Yellow pages works well as well, or online canada411.com and search for a type of business in the towns you want to work in.
You may be looking for JP Airline Fleets or Aviation Business Directory (Canada) 2005
Yellow pages works well as well, or online canada411.com and search for a type of business in the towns you want to work in.
Snoopy - good advice; as for the rest of you, don't you get it yet? One of your jobs a CP is to talk to prospective applicants. If somebody drives a 1000 miles just to talk to you, are you going to be such an asshole to throw away their resume just for that?
Until I got experience, I got my starter jobs with a road trip. I telephoned first (black thing with a wierd chrome ring you stuck your finger into and kind of twisted and you would get to speak to someone on the other end, no voice mail, and expensive) and then I jumped in my car/plane and arrived on their doorstep. First time/first job took about three days, second two weeks. I got a lot of "sorrys" too, but NOBODY was out and out rude to me. When this industry turns around, and it will, you bozos will be grovelling when pilots suggest politely that you might like to hire them.
I can't believe that Mr. Important would just trash a resume 'cause you showed up. Guess we couldn't work together, could we Mr. I.?
Until I got experience, I got my starter jobs with a road trip. I telephoned first (black thing with a wierd chrome ring you stuck your finger into and kind of twisted and you would get to speak to someone on the other end, no voice mail, and expensive) and then I jumped in my car/plane and arrived on their doorstep. First time/first job took about three days, second two weeks. I got a lot of "sorrys" too, but NOBODY was out and out rude to me. When this industry turns around, and it will, you bozos will be grovelling when pilots suggest politely that you might like to hire them.
I can't believe that Mr. Important would just trash a resume 'cause you showed up. Guess we couldn't work together, could we Mr. I.?
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
Alright...
The company I work for...
...fax a resume - we all sit around when we're not flying and pick out the stupid things that this pilot put in that have nothing to do with flying and such and such
...mail a resume - we may actually see that the CP gets it
...in person (unannounced or announced - whatever) someone, anyone who is around will talk to you and take you seriously.
showing up in person, is without a doubt your best shot, hands-down.
good luck.
The company I work for...
...fax a resume - we all sit around when we're not flying and pick out the stupid things that this pilot put in that have nothing to do with flying and such and such
...mail a resume - we may actually see that the CP gets it
...in person (unannounced or announced - whatever) someone, anyone who is around will talk to you and take you seriously.
showing up in person, is without a doubt your best shot, hands-down.
good luck.
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Positive_Rate
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I agree but...just to add my two cents......in person (unannounced or announced - whatever) someone, anyone who is around will talk to you and take you seriously.
Most of the companies that a job seeker will approach will have their own future pilots as your first contact...as a previous ramp agent that received resumes. I discarded my share of resumes as discussed previous by the chief pilots etc. in this post...I guess what I'm saying is...
If and only if you are a two hundred hour wonder (or a flight instructor) your resume will only be considered with two things in mind....
1. Right Place at the right time ( when they are in need of someone TODAY! )
2. If you know someone at that company ( it's all about who you know in the industry) !! NETWORK !!
Obviously with a little time under your belt things will be different.....Especially with the way the industry is moving these days !!
Remember...8 hours guys !!
Kule....how cold!
Yup, I'm just too bizzy sitting here scratching my big hairy nuts to have time for a guy who made the effort to darken my doorstep? Give me a phuquen break!
We had a guy show up in his own 150, just to drop off his resume. Know what we told him? "Tie the airplane down. You start tomorrow."
SHOW UP!! In some of the float "hot-spots" like YRL, plan to hang out for a couple of days and do all the stops. Have a burger at the Lakeview, and just listen.
If you have a PPC, or time on type in the larger centres, highlight it on your resume when you drop it off with the sec. They're trained to notice things like..."Current PPC on Be200......or Flight Safety on Metros..etc." Right now, the way the industry is going, you will be flagged down before you get back to your car.
Yup, I'm just too bizzy sitting here scratching my big hairy nuts to have time for a guy who made the effort to darken my doorstep? Give me a phuquen break!
We had a guy show up in his own 150, just to drop off his resume. Know what we told him? "Tie the airplane down. You start tomorrow."
SHOW UP!! In some of the float "hot-spots" like YRL, plan to hang out for a couple of days and do all the stops. Have a burger at the Lakeview, and just listen.
If you have a PPC, or time on type in the larger centres, highlight it on your resume when you drop it off with the sec. They're trained to notice things like..."Current PPC on Be200......or Flight Safety on Metros..etc." Right now, the way the industry is going, you will be flagged down before you get back to your car.
X Bank wrote:
One of your jobs a CP is to talk to prospective applicants. If somebody drives a 1000 miles just to talk
Doc wrote:
Kule....how cold!
Yup, I'm just too bizzy sitting here scratching my big hairy nuts to have time for a guy who made the effort to darken my doorstep? Give me a phuquen break[
To Xbank you are quite correct. The thread said "unannounced" Someone who walks in the door unannounced is not a prospective applicant. They are someone who feels that they are so important that you should drop everything to talk with them. And they think you make a hiring decision based on what? Their heroic and unique effort to get the job. The points I was trying to make is that because you put in a great deal of effort to be there does not give you the right to expect everyone to drop everything and help you. And you probably are not the only one to think about that idea so it happens regularly. A prospective applicant is one who has had their resume reviewed, a preliminary check on references and who has a scheduled appointment.
And to Doc. I was trying to make a point that many of the new jobseekers dont seem to give a damn about what their employer may be doing when they drop in unannounced. CP's dont just sit around the coffee pot all day and harass the staff. and wait for people to walk in the door. I for one, prefer tea.
Glad to be retired.
One of your jobs a CP is to talk to prospective applicants. If somebody drives a 1000 miles just to talk
Doc wrote:
Kule....how cold!
Yup, I'm just too bizzy sitting here scratching my big hairy nuts to have time for a guy who made the effort to darken my doorstep? Give me a phuquen break[
To Xbank you are quite correct. The thread said "unannounced" Someone who walks in the door unannounced is not a prospective applicant. They are someone who feels that they are so important that you should drop everything to talk with them. And they think you make a hiring decision based on what? Their heroic and unique effort to get the job. The points I was trying to make is that because you put in a great deal of effort to be there does not give you the right to expect everyone to drop everything and help you. And you probably are not the only one to think about that idea so it happens regularly. A prospective applicant is one who has had their resume reviewed, a preliminary check on references and who has a scheduled appointment.
And to Doc. I was trying to make a point that many of the new jobseekers dont seem to give a damn about what their employer may be doing when they drop in unannounced. CP's dont just sit around the coffee pot all day and harass the staff. and wait for people to walk in the door. I for one, prefer tea.
Glad to be retired.
Last edited by trey kule on Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
