ATC/Dispatcher Training

~CountryGirlWithWings~ · Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:26 pm

Hello Everyone! I'm a brand new user on this site and this is my first posting. I very much look forward to discover everything about it! I have always wanted to embark on a career in air traffic control. However, music school took many years from my 20's and now being 28, I am starting to wonder if I'm running out of time because I am still such a newbie in the world of aviation! What is the best way to go about getting training and how long will it take? Oh, and, I'm really not one of those who can identify airplanes by looking at their silhouettes behind a blindfold and locked in a 3-inch thick safe...!!

But!!! I know I AM passionate about airplanes and flying... kinda figured that has to help things somewhat...

Any suggestions/comments/feedbacks are more than welcome and appreciated.

Thank you and happy holidays to everyone!

Snowroller · Post by **Snowroller** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:46 pm

Go to the ladies forum,get on the chat & talk with Lilfssister,she has invaluable experience & wisdom from a ladies point of view regarding FSS & the ATS forum has many ATS personnel that may help you in your search

Cargo Pilot · Post by **Cargo Pilot** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:35 pm

Don't worry about not being knowledgeable about aviation, it doesn't make a difference in the ATC world

.

I got a much later start in aviation than you did. Don't sell yourself short, anyone who says you can't do it isn't worth listening to. Hard work and dedication is all you need, just like any other industry.

28 years old and running out of time? There are many ways I could respond to that, but in the end I just want to give you a smack in the back of the head...

Go for it. Hope to talk to you on freq some day.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:32 pm

Date:13 December 2005
Position:Air Traffic Controller and Flight Service Specialist.
Company Name:NAV CANADA
Contact Person:SHL - NAV CANADA Recruitment
Street Address:1900 City Park Drive, Suite 202
City:Ottawa
State/Province:Ontario
Country:Canada
Web address: http://www.navcanada.ca
Email address: navcan@shlgroup.com
Phone number:1-800-667-4636
Fax number:613-569-1118
Send Resume By:Website

Job Description:
We guide the world’s aircraft through Canadian airspace. We need men
and women who welcome the challenge of guiding tons of metal through the
air at high speed.

À NAV CANADA, nous guidons des aéronefs du monde entier dans l’espace
aérien canadien. Nous cherchons des femmes et des hommes prêts à
relever le défi de guider en toute sécurité les aéronefs et leurs passagers.

Think you’re up to it? Vous croyez être à la hauteur?

Closing Date: December 2006
_________________
Regards,

Webmaster AvCanada

grimey · Post by **grimey** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:31 am

~CountryGirlWithWings~ wrote:What is the best way to go about getting training and how long will it take?

Nav Canada has an application form on their web site. Fill it out, and apply for a testing session. You'll be scheduled for a 2-3 hour aptitude test, and it'll cost you roughly $200 to take it. If you rank highly on it, you'll be given an interview within a month or two, and based on the results of the interview, you'll get placed in a pool of applicants for training. You'll remain in that pool for up to 18 months. If you apply for VFR, expect to wait a while. For IFR or FSS, if you're near the top of the pool, you can expect a call within a couple months to schedule you for a course. FSS takes about 6 -8 months from the start of training until you're fully qualified at a station, IFR takes up to 2 years, VFR is somewhere in between. FSS costs $1000 for the course, with free room and board in scenic, stinky Cornwall. VFR (tower controller) is $2500 with room and board in Cornwall. IFR (center controller) is $3500, but you have to pay your own way, unpaid, for 8-12 months in a major city before you start getting paid. The workload during training is on par with alot of college programs, with alot of memorization required, especially for IFR.

Fair warning: if you have good reason to believe that you'll have difficulty getting a security clearance, or passing an aviation medical, ask around before you apply. If you've lived outside of the country in the last 10 years for any significant amount of time, or have a criminal conviction which you don't have a pardon for, you'll have trouble getting a level 2 clearance, which you now need before they'll even start training you. Same goes for the medical. If you have any serious health problems, contact a local flying club to get the name of a CAME, and see if you have a hope of passing the medical exam. If you're in reasonably good health, though, with good corrected eyesight and good hearing, you shouldn't have much trouble.

Here's the application page:

http://atsrecruitment.navcanada.ca/defa ... ets=lang=0

You can also ask around at the controller's union website, there are plenty of people to answer any questions you might have there:

http://www.local5454.com/community/boards/

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:28 am

Go for the area control centers. Those people make a killing and get great schedules.

Pyleosnow · Post by **Pyleosnow** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:57 am

Just wondering if you come in after doing your training in the military, what kind of conversion is needed, and at what level of pay do you start?

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:53 pm

Bede wrote:Go for the area control centers. Those people make a killing and get great schedules.

24hr shift work 365 days a year is a great schedule??? All ATC get the same time off and schedule unless you're in a position that doesn't operate 24hrs a day. Almost all positions top out at 6 figures. It takes a little while to get into the big numbers at the smaller towers but in the end you're working a lot less traffic for close to the same pay and have the same holidays benefits right from the start. as the centers do.

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:59 pm

Pyleosnow wrote:Just wondering if you come in after doing your training in the military, what kind of conversion is needed, and at what level of pay do you start?

The same conversion as someone off of the street. There hasn't been a real good success rate with Military controllers becoming Civilian and I don't think you get to cut any corners. They are taking Civilian controllers from other countries but I don't think they allow Military into the experienced controller program anymore, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Look at the Nav Can website for starting pay.

grimey · Post by **grimey** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:20 pm

justplanecrazy wrote:
Bede wrote:Go for the area control centers. Those people make a killing and get great schedules.
24hr shift work 365 days a year is a great schedule??? All ATC get the same time off and schedule unless you're in a position that doesn't operate 24hrs a day. Almost all positions top out at 6 figures. It takes a little while to get into the big numbers at the smaller towers but in the end you're working a lot less traffic for close to the same pay and have the same holidays benefits right from the start. as the centers do.

And a great view to boot.

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:55 pm

I think grimey gave you a great break down of the system and how the training/selection works.

The info from the jobs forum that xsbank posted will take you where you need to go to start the process.

Other than the $200 plus tax fee to take the test, I figure anyone interested in ATS has nothing to lose by giving it a whirl. It can be a great career, in either ATC or FSS.

Like Snowroller (thanks for the kudos by the way, SR) said, you can often find me in the chat here on avcanada if you want some more info, or PM me (or probably any of the ATC or FSS on here will be happy to answer any questions you have).

Another resource is squawkident.com where there is a forum for potential ATS students and I think there's even one where you can ask questions of the folks at SHL who do the screening.

grimey · Post by **grimey** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:21 pm

cpl_atc wrote: I guess the workload assessment is somewhat of a personal thing, although I have always said that the IFR training workload made university look like junior high by comparison. Probably because it is compressed into a relatively short timeframe. And there's no way to overstate the amount of memorization for IFR -- it often seemed like what was required was beyond reasonable limits, unless you had a hard drive wired into your head.

However, it is a great job, and worth the effort required to make it through (even if the training process takes 10yrs off your life)....

I'm sure it was only 5 years.

And yea, the memorization work required for IFR is insane. I don't know about it being alot more work, though. When I went to college, most of my time outside of the classroom was spent of getting work done for courses. At NCTI for FSS, it was rote memorization of whatever we'd just gone over in class, or memorizing airspace and geography for my sim runs. It wasn't really more work for me, since I had no assignments to get done, but might have seemed that way because of how boring memorizing FS MANOPs (but not verbatim...

), airways, airport idents, directions and distances was.

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:23 pm

Grimey, I'm not sure if you got a lot smarter since college but I gotta completely disagree with you. I haven't heard anyone else say it was anything near the same workload. I pulled off a GPA of 3.5 in College/Uni and logged over 35 trips to the ski hill on schoold days and over 100 drunken nights/mornings per year. There were a number of drunken nights at NCTI but all in all there was a lot more work. I felt like I had learned 4 semesters in 4 1/2 months, and you don't have the luxery of dropping classes or failing a few tests. I have yet to hear of a college program that graduates less than a 1/3 of their class, maybe FSS is different but ATC was a bitch and IFR has even less odds.

Don't take this as discouragement only as a challenge. It's a great experience, even if you don't make it. The only thing to think about is how badly you need a career and what you'll be risking taking that amount of time without pay. Personnally I'd shoot for ATC. They pay the best and are located in habitable locations. If you don't make it, there is the possibility of getting recoursed to FSS. If you don't make FSS, there are several dispatch companies that'll take you. If you start with dispatch and don't make it, you have nothing to fall back on.

Rudy · Post by **Rudy** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:56 am

justplanecrazy wrote:I have yet to hear of a college program that graduates less than a 1/3 of their class...

Sault College Aviation.

Raydar · Post by **Raydar** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:50 pm

http://www.squawkident.com great place for ATC training info

stewie · Post by **stewie** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:17 pm

This to me starts off looking like a 182 Driver post, but I could be wrong. Everyone is really helping this...........girl?

serviceyourjugs · Post by **serviceyourjugs** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:04 pm

Please do not clutter these forums with this talk. If you are interested in being a stewardess or a travel agent then by all means I encourage you to get into aviation. Pilots, mechanics, and ATC are all jobs for men. A legendary bush pilot buddy of mine always says, "If females were meant to fly then the sky would be pink." Amen.

lilfssister · Post by **lilfssister** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:08 pm

And I thought neanderthals were extinct.

stewie · Post by **stewie** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:58 am

serviceyourjugs wrote:Please do not clutter these forums with this talk. If you are interested in being a stewardess or a travel agent then by all means I encourage you to get into aviation. Pilots, mechanics, and ATC are all jobs for men. A legendary bush pilot buddy of mine always says, "If females were meant to fly then the sky would be pink." Amen.

Is serviceyourjugs here trying to get a raise out of the female pilots out there that probably fly better than some of the GUYS in aviation. Only one post there jugs, why are you hiding behind that of so well thought of name. Not able to put out your real name or handle or are you the same one that started this post......hmmmmmm.............I wonder.

~CountryGirlWithWings~ · Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:39 am

Thank you everyone for the information and especially Grimey and xsbank. (And thanks to Stewie and serviceyourjugs for supplying the jokes!) I will definitely look into it and at least start from the aptitute test. I'm working, right now, as a part-time dispatcher already but officially, we're flight followers, not dispatchers and therefore there was no dispatching training. I, too, hope to talk to all of you some day on frequency... especially out of YVR!

Thanks again and Happy New Year!

ps. yes Stewie... I am for real! But thanks for mixing me up with the legendary 182 Driver

jonathan_tcu · Post by **jonathan_tcu** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:01 pm

I am new here as well. I was referred to this site from a controller at
Waterloo. However, I am hoping to modify my username. Anyone got advice on that?

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