Hand Gun Ban

[Cool Rythms!]

You touched on a very valid point justplanecrazy. Many young black teenagers today are raised in a society, where they are somewhat brainwashed into believing that they will not amount to anything much in life, simply because that was the case with their parents.

I belong to an association in Montreal, where very often, I am asked to speak to young members of the black community. And yes, the intent is to show them, that they can be whatever they want to be in life, a police officer, a lawyer, a doctor, a pilot like me, or whatever it is their hearts desire. It's all about mentoring and moulding them in the right way.

I'm glad you brought this up, because you'd be surprise how many black kids out there think this way.

[Chantal]

Cool Rythmns you're probably right, it was the same way for their parents. This is an awful thing to happen where kids are "socialized" to think they are not good enough to be somebody in society. This happened to Native people in Canada.

Also, I don't know what to think about an incident this weekend in Winnipeg. Two young men, in there early 20s, died in a fight they got into, except one died from being shot by police. Apparently they were from Sudan and was not gang related.

[LH]

Cool Rythms ------there is no need for criminals to "seek-out" new ways to obtain firearms at all. Those "ways" have been known for over half a century and are just passed-on as part of the learning process. Anyone who thought that criminals get their weapons from Gun Shops or stealing them from some house break-in is naive to the extreme. Do some get obtained that way?........of course they do, but only idiots want one a break-in have the possibility of tying them into a much more serious crime. Why go for one weapon, when breaking into a "sea can" on the Montreal docks at 3AM can get them a 1/2 ton truck load........and they aren't registered ANYWHERE because they are fresh from a factory in Italy. They'll have American names on them and when found at some crime scene, most of the stupid people will say........Ahhh-ha, see another bloody S & W that made it across the border from the f'in US. Those bloody Americans and their stupid gun laws". Meanwhile, the weapon never saw the "light of day"on any American soil or military Base anywhere and wasn't made there. So how's a handgun ban in Toronto address that problem?

Chantal ------- you are correct about the shooting in Winnipeg....with a few added details. The man shot had stabbed another man seriously many times when the police arrived. He was told to drop his weapon, but came towards them with the knife raised. He was "pepper-sprayed" repeatedly and still kept coming (so much for the vaunted pepper-spray). At that point he was shot dead by a Constable. The victim, is now in ICU and termed "Unstable".

The reasons for crime amongst the poor are varied to say the least. The above violence is an example of one of the main causes. Both men were from the Sudan. This method of dealing with an enemy is common in that culture and the reasons for that also are varied. One of the main reasons is because in the Sudan and many other parts of the world, Police and Courts are not to be trusted and are corrupt. Therefore, when these people emigrate to Canada, they bring that distrust with them and deal with their problems in a like manner as at home. The respect for the law is nil and based on the realities of their world of the past......but it's engrained into them. Now they eventually have children here who have these ideas and beliefs passed-on to them by their parents. Setting up special schools or opportunites for these children fails in most cases because they don't participate and trust nobody. People have got to realize that the police have had a problem in this regard for decades and decades because Vietnamese, Chinese, Phillpino, Indonesian and a host of other immigrants find it abhorent to co-operate with the police in ANY way, evem if the crime has been committed against them. The hardest item to find after a crime has been committed in these communities is a witness........even if they saw the whole thing. Toronto, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary amongst other large cities have this problem because that is where the vast majority of immigrants gravitate to. In those countries, being a member of a gang IS security and was THE primary reason that the Mafia was formed in Sicily eons ago....and because of corrupt police and officials again. Ditto for the Yakuza, Hong Kong and Chinese Triads, Jamacian Posse and others. They all began originally as gangs that were formed for protection of their members and others and had to survive so they fed-off those that were part of the corrupt systems.

They are poor at home with little or no education and arrive on our shores the same way. They know one thing very well though and that's that the person belonging to a respected gang and he who has the biggest knife or biggest handgun is the one most feared because all the rest don't have any of that. Encouraging these folks to join Cadets, the Brownies or some other organization only makes them grin because they already are a member of an "organization" AND the parents in many cases already know about it. There are many other reasons as mentioned, but this is one of many that need to be addressed somehow and the cure is not as simple as many would like to portray because the many reasons run deep and monies/education are not necessarily the "weapon" to look at using.

[Dr.Piper]

I thought that the regulations were already very strict for responsible gun owners. As far as I know the handgun must be registered and locked up at all times in the house. And you must let the police know when you are leaving the house with it. Plus you must have a firearms licence.

I have no idea why someone would need a handgun for personal use anyways, but hey thats just me. Thats what the police and other enforcement are for.

So all the ban is doing is affecting the responsible gun owner.

I think that the only true way to stop the flow of guns is strong border control. I don't mind the extra hassle as long as it stops the gun flow. I believe they have xray machines that can check entire cars. I know they have them for shipping containers.

Plus, its elections time and the politicians promise everything they can to get somebodys vote and then they revoke all the promises once they get in (sorry Dalton but its the truth.)

If every politician had kept their promise, we would have no debt.

Thats my rant for today.

Thank you.

[LH]

Dr. Piper ------- the border always has been a problem and you have named another way to be used to curtail the importation. How do you do that with all the containers at all the seaports and there are literally thousands on any given night? A handgun ban won't do anything for that. As far as handguns or any other weapons are concerned, I can see no reason why anyone living in Toronto would have need for any of them including a rifle. Decent hunting doesn't even start until you are past North bay someplace.....and that's a long drive. I live in Manitoba and as I post this I have 12 deer in my backyard, not 100' from my house on 5 acres........and that's a normal situation, not worth noticing on any given day. The same applies to someone living in Red Lake, Ont., The Pas, MB, Barrhead, AB, FT, St. John, BC or Baker Lake, Nunuvut.

[ScudRunner]

thought that the regulations were already very strict for responsible gun owners. As far as I know the handgun must be registered and locked up at all times in the house. And you must let the police know when you are leaving the house with it. Plus you must have a firearms licence.

Heres the Deal

For Law abiding type folk

To buy a Handgun in Canada first you have to take the Firearms Safety Course and the Restricted Firearms Safety Course each has a written and practical exam where you have to pass with a minumum of 80%. So after passing all 4 exams. You fill out all the back ground fourms get your picture taken like for a pasport. Get References to sign it saying your a good guy. As well your currently spouse must sign and your ex's including common law included for the previous 2 years. Then submit it for a background/ criminal background check. This takes a minimum of 1 month, They research your previousl jobs and such. Any alcohaul abuse. they know about you pulling Suzy's hair in the 3rd grade.

After all that and if you turn out to be a good person they send ya your Firarms Acusition licence. Take your little peice of plastic with your ugly mug stamped on it down to your local Gun shop. Find the gun you want plunk down your cash. Now you get to talk to the person at the firarms centre and tell them the secret password.
Now for a handgun or restricted firearm you get to wait a couple days or untill you are approved. Then get a tempory transport permit to take your new peice home. Oh and if you want to shoot it you get your transport permit that states which range and dealers you intend to take it to. And when its not punching holes in paper its stored securly at home. Oh and to buy ammo you must show your Acusition licence.

For Criminal Type folk

Find another Criminal type person hand over cash and place your new gat in your crotch area of your pants. proceed to Rob at will with your new toy. Spray bullets randomly at people in front of Foot Locker and dont forget to bring more ammo because you cant shoot worth shit. But most of all hold the gun sideways to look cool like in the movies. After eventually getting busted by the police and slapped on the wrist with 6 months probation. Then repeat as stated above.
Oh and just for Irony Vote Liberal on Jan 23rd because their tough on Crime.

I can see no reason why anyone living in Toronto would have need for any of them including a rifle

Hunter live in Cities too and spend alot of money flying to place around the country to kill bambi.

[LH]

. ------firstly, NOT ALL people have to buy ammo at a retail outlet and many haven't done so for a decade or more because they reload their own. Secondly, if you check the registrations for rifles Canada-wide, you'll find that there are more rifles per square mile registered in rural Canada than you'll find in Toronto or any other big city. Reason being is that many, many familes have 5-7 rifles/shotguns and they've been acquired over generations. They also slaughter their own meat on the farm or ranch, whereas the only "slaughtering" of that type that goes on in Toronto happens on Yonge St or some back alley.

I don't deny the "Privilege" of someone in Toronto to own a rifle for hunting, if they enjoy that sport. Point before was, that IF they made a total weapons ban in Toronto, it would hurt a loss less of those that hunt that are from Toronto, than it would from the rural areas if they did the same thing there. Ditto for any of your other cities across the land.

As you have aptly stated though, ANY law they bring down will not address the main problem. They can ban all firearms across Canada, including cross-bows if they wish.......AND they will STILL not have addressed the problem nor erased their presence. All that will have been accomplished is that those that are law-abiding citizens will pay a further penalty for crimes that they did not commit and those that aren't law-abiding will carry-on as before and have to put up with none of those penalties. There is a scap of light at the end of the tunnel though because it would appear that MAYBE, just MAYBE, the politicians are finally getting the "message" that much more serious penalties have to be put in place for use of a weapon while committing a crime. It would appear that on that ONE subject, both Martin and Harper are "on the same page". The next law I want to see eliminated is the one that states that EACH day in detention awaiting trial IS EQUAL to TWO days served towards any sentence handed-down.

[justplanecrazy]

As far as handguns or any other weapons are concerned, I can see no reason why anyone living in Toronto would have need for any of them including a rifle. Decent hunting doesn't even start until you are past North bay someplace.....and that's a long drive.

LH be careful or you'll start sounding as ignorant as a Liberal asking for a handgun ban. There are lots of hunting areas within 3 hours of Toronto. These areas are easily accessible on a weekend trip. Also, it is quite popular for the rich boys to take month long hunting trips in the north. Basically no-one in Canada needs a handgun or other weapon with the exception of ranchers. If you start taking away handguns in Toronto based on that concept, than don't cry to me when Mr. Conservation Officer shows up at your back door to confiscate your long gun. What makes you think that you need a firearm anymore than someone in the city, because you have a few deer in your backyard? I may have to transfer to Ontario for a few years and I don't want to have to sell all my guns based on a population in a small corner of Ontario.

There is a scap of light at the end of the tunnel though because it would appear that MAYBE, just MAYBE, the politicians are finally getting the "message" that much more serious penalties have to be put in place for use of a weapon while committing a crime. It would appear that on that ONE subject, both Martin and Harper are "on the same page".

I hope you're joking. I think Martin has made it quite clear that criminals rights stand head and shoulders above any sort of get tough on crime policy. They've had 12 years in power and all they've done is allowed more and more leeway in the system for criminals. The right wing parties on the other hand have been crying for tougher penalties that whole time.

Harper has outlined his policy and plans for getting tough on crime, while Martin has only recently started making oddball comments about how crime won't be allowed and his only policy that he's revealed is the handgun ban. His comments on longer sentencing have been just that, he hasn't revealed any sort of min. sentencing plans or when sentences might be lengthened he's just mentioned that there will be longer sentencing. Its kind of like promising that the GST will be abolished... or signing Koyoto then allowing emmisions to increase more than the US and critisizing the US for not signing. I would have thought that a person as smart as yourself would know to take those empty comments, with no policy plans, about as serious as a parliamentary address at yuk yuks?

[cyyz]

You touched on a very valid point justplanecrazy. Many young black teenagers today are raised in a society, where they are somewhat brainwashed into believing that they will not amount to anything much in life, simply because that was the case with their parents.

hahahahah.... cadet program. I can just see the kids lining up to join. This is just the point, there are no programs that are out there targeting the kids growing up in impoverished crime ridden neighborhoods. Any kid caught wearing a cadet uniform would be mocked for years, not to mention having to cut his hair and dress like a teacher. You have to have programs that the kids are interested in. You create a basketball team

Yeah, Cools he hit it right on the head, those poor kids are to "stupid" to join the Cadet Program cause it's not "cool," but they're "smart + cool" enough for the basket ball team.

Maybe we need to start brainwashing the kids and ppl like Justplane crazy...

But back on topic... give everyone a gun, let everyone shoot everyone the strong will survive....

[Doc]

While I dont want to see Quebec seperate from Canada, I'd just love to see Toronto leave. I am sick and tired of the whole country being run by this city! We lived with a ban on studded tires since the early 70's because that's what Toronto wanted.....now, it's very likely the rest of the country will have to suffer a handgun ban....because, that's what Toronto wants?

[shimmydampner]

There are lots of hunting areas within 3 hours of Toronto.

Absolutely right. In fact, there's plenty of deer hunting opportunities even closer than that.

Yeah, Cools he hit it right on the head, those poor kids are to "stupid" to join the Cadet Program cause it's not "cool," but they're "smart + cool" enough for the basket ball team.

Yeah, what a dumb idea to give them something they're interested in to keep them out of trouble. Something that they have no interest in and cannot relate to whatsoever is a way better idea.

Maybe we need to start brainwashing the kids and ppl like Justplane crazy...

But back on topic... give everyone a gun, let everyone shoot everyone the strong will survive....

Your ideas keep getting better and better. You should implement that plan. Sounds like the makings of a wonderful society. I'll write you in on my ballot on election day.

Doc, I can sorta understand your frustration, although I've lived in NWO for 6 years and never had a need for studded tires on my truck. Regardless, I'm sure you can understand that with traffic levels in the GTA exponentially higher than those in NWO, why they wouldn't want people to have studded tires. That being said, they do need to realize that southern Ontario and northern Ontario are two different worlds. I find it strange that provincial programs like Drive Clean can be exempted from northern Ontario yet others like studded tires are not.

[cyyz]

Yeah, Cools he hit it right on the head, those poor kids are to "stupid" to join the Cadet Program cause it's not "cool," but they're "smart + cool" enough for the basket ball team.

Yeah, what a dumb idea to give them something they're interested in to keep them out of trouble. Something that they have no interest in and cannot relate to whatsoever is a way better idea.

Just so we can turn this into a race issue because the poor folks in the trailer parks don't need or want basketball courts... So the inner-city poor black folks, guess, what "oh looks like we're starting to take over another sport" a remark made by my colored friend in reference to the black guy playing for the Oilers, I didn't bother pointing out the fact that darwin and eugenics folks have been stating the very same thing for centuries. "black people are meant to be warriors and athletes but not thinkers or leaders."

PS. It's remarks like yours above, his and others that perpetuate this bs. It doesn't matter if they're interested in it, how many kids are interested in going to school?? Not many, but we're forced to go, maybe someone should promote some other programs, instead of the "naw, you won't like that, here have a ball, look it bounces"

http://maddox.xmission.com/hatemail.cgi?p=1

Maybe if you weren't such a sexually insecure dumbass, you'd have spent the time you pissed away playing highschool sports--you know, that thing nobody in the real world cares about--learning how to read instead so that you don't end up bagging my groceries after you graduate with your 1.2 GPA (rounded off nicely with that C you got in wood shop).

You know what the best thing about knowing that the nerds you picked on will always be more successful, have hotter girlfriends, a home that doesn't have wheels, and a stock portfolio with numbers larger than you can count is? Doesn't matter, get me a coffee

So, do we just continue to dump the poor folks into the Basketball courts because that's what you think they're "good at?"

If these "losers," apparently that's why they turn to gangs because they have nothing else to live for, were so good or had so much fun or enjoyed life so much in highschool why weren't they playing Basketball then, oh because they were and as maddox pointed out, now they realised they're losers and turn to gangs.

I was forced to play the piano for 5 years, I didn't tell anyone about my lessons(twice a week), I worked with someone who was in Cadets, and I worked with him for 3 years, and never knew he was in Cadets....

So those who would be ashamed, don't need to tell their "friends."
Those parents who care about their kids could send them there, oh wait, the parents don't care about the kids and that's why they turn to guns, drugs and violence in the first place, so now we'll build the kids a basketball court and keep giving the parents welfare cheques and keep increasing their income with every new disenfranchised child they conceive?

Parents don't care about their kids, why are we caring again?

I find it strange that provincial programs like Drive Clean can be exempted from northern Ontario yet others like studded tires are not.

You are fucking kidding me? You bastards don't have to do Drive Clean because you're in the North? Fucking government....

[justplanecrazy]

Parents don't care about their kids, why are we caring again?

So what do you suggest oh wise one? Just say screw em and throw them in prison? What was the family like that raised you? Did you ever get the crap beat out of you by your dad, or watch your mom all cracked up throwing up on the couch? Do you deserve a better upbringing because you were born into a better family?

That sounds like the guy telling the government that they need to create a better health care system to deal with all the accidents that are happening at one uncontrolled intersection. Obviously it'd be more effective to put a 4-way stop in place and eliminate the accidents to begin with. Sure there would still be a need for a health care system and accidents at an intersection with a 4-way stop will still occur but if it is obvious where the problem is originating shouldn't we deal with it?

Most of these criminals are coming from one or two neighborhoods, shouldn't we be doing something in those neighborhoods before they commit crimes? Obviously we need to deal with increasing our effectiveness in dealing with stopping the criminals from RE-offending, but why not try stopping it before their first offence?

Who do you suppose would force them to go to Cadets, their parents? They'd probably attend as often as they do school, which just happens to get skipped all the time. If the parents aren't there for encouragment, education, social skills, etc. then yes society has to step in.

[shimmydampner]

Good ol' Drive Clean. I guess we have lots of trees to suck up our pollution.

I see your point about the comment you made. I misunderstood a little. I am by no means trying to perpetuate that type of thinking. But, you do have to give them something that interests them and justplanecrazy was right when he said that cadets is something that will not interest many ethnic kids from poor neighbourhoods. Keep in mind that it needs to be something that interests them sufficiently so that they will voluntarily choose it over criminal alternatives. How many 16 year old ethnic kids living near the poverty line do you think would prefer to go hang out with middle class white kids in uniform over smoking a joint, cleaning their gat, and weighing out dime-bags to sell to their classmates for a huge profit.
No, basketball courts aren't the only answer, there needs to be a variety. Something for everyone, and that includes giving them the motivation and opportunity to pursue higher education and/or skills training.

[cyyz]

Most of these criminals are coming from one or two neighborhoods, shouldn't we be doing something in those neighborhoods before they commit crimes? Obviously we need to deal with increasing our effectiveness in dealing with stopping the criminals from RE-offending, but why not try stopping it before their first offence?

Who do you suppose would force them to go to Cadets, their parents? They'd probably attend as often as they do school, which just happens to get skipped all the time.

If the parents aren't there for encouragment, education, social skills, etc. then yes society has to step in.

NAPALM, but on a serious note, most of the kids will just use the courts as turf and other kids will fight over it...

I understand they wouldn't go willingly, but I mean, maybe instead of "gym" where you play with nerf balls and dodge ball they should send the guys to some boot camp(ALL students not just poor areas) and maybe they'll enjoy it and some 1% would be go sign up for cadets after?? Pressure them in a positive way... I think that 1% would turn out better...

[cyyz]

and that includes giving them the motivation and opportunity to pursue higher education and/or skills training.

LoL, we're not gonna be paying them to go to school next are we?

User fees gone wrong, "hi kenny, here's 2 dollars for comming to class today..."... LOL

[justplanecrazy]

and that includes giving them the motivation and opportunity to pursue higher education and/or skills training.

LoL, we're not gonna be paying them to go to school next are we?

User fees gone wrong, "hi kenny, here's 2 dollars for comming to class today..."... LOL

We already pay the natives to go and I'm sure we've all seen how effective that is... so no.

[Doc]

Yup...that'll solve it. Give games to play! How about just shipping their asses back to from wence they came? Not PC....too ef'en bad! The kid who did the shooting on Boxing Day had been charged NINETEEN times in the past year or so. His phuquen picture was hanging in the COP station, with "armed and dangerous" on it. Seems time to put PC on the back burner, no?

[pilotbzh]

It's funny that when a speed limit is imposed few people complain but when it comes to gun control everybody does....
Handgun and assault weapons should be ban all together, leave them to pros and shooting clubs, nobody needs that for self protection. Hunting weapons shall be left alone, they are used for hunting rarelly for anything else....

have you ever hunt with a 38 or an AK37?
Recovering the meat is a nasty job...

[LH]

justplanecrazy ------ you're "selling ice cubes to Eskimos" when talking to me about protecting your ability to own handguns. By the same token, deer is not the ONLY thing that wanders onto my 5 acres. Black bears frequent the area quite often in the Spring and Fall, specially if food is scarce, as do coyote and wolves with "mange". I've had to shoot one Black bear already beciuse it got between my wife, grandaughter and the house 100' away......and "No" I don't live out in the sticks either........how about 30 minutes from the corner of Portage and Main in downtown Winnipeg. I doubt greatly that that is of a concern to the average woman hanging out clothes to dry who lives within the confines of Toronto City limits. Again, Torontonians, rich or poor, drive some three hours to get to a place with lots of game. My game comes to edge of my deck in back of my house and I can be as poor "as a shit house rat" and don't need money for shooting them or for travel expenses to no cabin or Lodge. I too, believe that there should be no differences in that regard for any Canadian and where they live should have no bearing on it. Point being, that it effects others more than others based on where they live.

Already, I can carry only a Swiss Army type knife on my person, should I so desire to do so, within the Winnipeg City limits. ANY other form of knife is illegal and I can be charged. Should they ban the handguns and rifles, then knives will come shortly afterwards. People laugh at that until I remind them that iff someone would have mentioned 35 years ago that one day there would be a ban on smoking in public places in many Canadian cities, I would have been told to stop exaggerating to make my point and been been considered some kind of weirdo. Myself and others like me, absolutely refuse to be penalized for the governments "lack of gonads" to enforce a serious law that's already on the books and think making new ones will solve the problem. If some politician wants to talk to people that have wanted the gun laws from eons ago enforced even, then they should talk to those that own them. They'd quickly find out that they'd be demading some "ugly" sentences for anyone mis-using a firearm. They've asked for it many times, but when the country is "in rehabilitation of criminals" mode, then strict harsh sentences are considered archaic and Draconian. That's what they've worked for all along and now they have the results and don't like it......... well "tough bannanas".

[cyyz]

They've asked for it many times, but when the country is "in rehabilitation of criminals" mode, then strict harsh sentences are considered archaic and Draconian. That's what they've worked for all along and now they have the results and don't like it......... well "tough bannanas".

The irony LH will be when you go to jail for 10 years for animal cruelty and the gang member will get 2 less a day for murder.

[justplanecrazy]

As far as handguns or any other weapons are concerned, I can see no reason why anyone living in Toronto would have need for any of them including a rifle. Decent hunting doesn't even start until you are past North bay someplace.....and that's a long drive.

justplanecrazy ------ you're "selling ice cubes to Eskimos" when talking to me about protecting your ability to own handguns.

Don't really understand, do the people of Toronto have a need for any weapons, or not?

I've had to shoot one Black bear already beciuse it got between my wife, grandaughter and the house 100' away......and "No" I don't live out in the sticks either........how about 30 minutes from the corner of Portage and Main in downtown Winnipeg. I doubt greatly that that is of a concern to the average woman hanging out clothes to dry who lives within the confines of Toronto City limits. I too, believe that there should be no differences in that regard for any Canadian and where they live should have no bearing on it. Point being, that it effects others more than others based on where they live.

Are you trying to say that you need a firearm at your house in order to shoot a bear because it takes too long for the police or conservation officer to arrive? If that's the case than shouldn't the people of toronto have the right to own a handgun/ firearm in case someone trys to break in or threatens to attack their wife or child 100' from the house, in case it takes the police too long to arrive? You could have waited for the authorities to arrive just like the guy who's son was getting beat in his backyard. Truthfully, the only affect it will have on you, is your ability to continue the hobby of hunting, just like the guy in Toronto who drives 3 hours to go hunting. I used to carry my shotgun in the truck in case I nailed a deer out in the backwoods, so I could put it down and not make it suffer. Well 14 years of driving back roads and the only deer I've hit so far was inside Calgary City Limits. To try and paint handgun owners shooting at a range in Winnipeg, Toronto or Dawson City Yukon, in any different light, is plain wrong. I know what you're saying that there are more guns in rural areas than urban and it will affect the rural lifestyle more but both the urban centers and the rural centers should be able to take up hunting or target shooting, if they want to. For you to say that you have more of a right to own a firearm this someone in Toronto is simply not true. As soon as you agree that there is no need for a firearm in Toronto, the people of Toronto will not be at fault for agreeing that there is no need for a firearm anywhere in Canada.

[Dust Devil]

Do you deserve a better upbringing because you were born into a better family?

Yes!

[shimmydampner]

Yup...that'll solve it. Give games to play! How about just shipping their asses back to from wence they came?

You know that it is possible for non-white people to be born in Canada right? Just checkin.

I'm all for deporting a person who deserves to be but 2 questions come to mind:
#1: How does that help the situation when most of these criminals are Canadian-born?
#2: How does this aftermeasure help prevent crime?

[Wilbur]

Gangs cross all ethinic and socio-economic lines; it just happens some inner-city TO shootings by black scumbags are making the news. But scumbags come in all colours and from all parts of every city. Vancouver's asian gangs are now multi-race and draw their members from solid middle/working class neighbourhoods. West Vancouver has the highest per capita income in Canada, and has gangs that draw their members from very wealthy families, mostly of middle eastern descent. Indo-Canadian gangs flourish from Vancouver to Abbotsford, draw from all classes and have many members who are university students. Vancouver's middle class suberbs, Burnaby, Coquitlam, etc have a large gang of middle class, mostly white 20 somethings, distributing drugs throughout BC on behalf of a certain group of motorcycle enthusiasts. To paint gang activity as a poor ethnic neighbourhood problem is, simply put, inaccurate.

If it is gang activity you want to target, you need to look at why young people join gangs. There are primarily two reasons.

The first is to find friends. Most of these people were social misfits with few if any friends and very low self esteem prior to joining a gang. They are easy targets for recruitment because they will grab onto anyone willing to accept them, and will do whatever is asked of them to remain part of the group. Once part of a gang they transition from being someone who the "cool" kids on the highschool sports teams tease, to someone they "respect" (fear).

The second group are motivated purely by greed. They want money and status without having to work for it, or to obtain it faster than they could by working for it.

Sports programs can work for the average kid, but they don't for those with low self esteem, poor physical abilities, or who don't "fit in" with the larger group. Programs to keep vulnerable kids out of gangs need to be inclusive of all types of people, tailorable to individual needs, and have activities that allow everyone to succeed.

The greedy ones need punishments (prison and seizure of assets) significant enough to tilt the cost/benfit analysis clearly to the too expensive side of the equation.