Confederation College ski training?

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:38 pm

I forget, does Confed train on skis? If so, how many hours do you get? Is there a minimum insurance requirement to work flying a plane on skis?

THANKS!

-istp

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:57 pm

Each student gets around 8 hours of ski time on a C-180. I don't think it was that last year because of the ice conditions but they got the time on wheels. Judging by the weather this year so far they may be in the same boat again. Lots of slush everywhere and not much ice.

CGZMT · Post by **CGZMT** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:24 pm

three years ago ice hit the horizontal stab and put her out fo commsiion for awhile and two years ago the wx was so bad and with sced probs i think only 5 maybe 10 students got any tail time at all.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:43 pm

Ah.....wrestling the gator. Good times, great memories.

$1.85 driver · Post by **$1.85 driver** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:29 pm

geez-who was the goof who dented up the stab?

Adanac · Post by **Adanac** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:34 pm

Yes, as far as I know, they still do the ski flying!

The year I did my training we had a fair amount of snow and a fair amount of slush too. What ever training I didn't get on skis was made up on doing bounce and go's on wheels.

I found the wheel training tuffer than the ski trianing, but not as fun!

Good luck!

Adanac

Redneck_pilot86 · Post by **Redneck_pilot86** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:41 pm

Its not looking great for much ski time this year either, only one person has done their ride, with over 30 left to go. Havent been in YQT for about three weeks, but when I left the weather wasnt any good for it, altho QNN does have the skis on last I saw.

ST

AZN 027 · Post by **AZN 027** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:19 pm

About the ski training:

The ski training was not offered our year. It was said that the ski flying conditions were not right. They basically said that to help us sleep at night because I saw several private ski planes buzzing around Thunder Bay on many an occasion.

About 5-10 students got to fly the C180 on wheels for about an hour each. But somebody in the class had to complain in order for us to get those hours and even then, the whole class didn't even get to fly it.

Its false advertising as far as I'm concerned. Confederation College is known for its excellent float, tailwheel and ski training and when u don't get two out of three I figure thats a heeuge jip.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:48 pm

AZN 027 wrote:It was said that the ski flying conditions were not right. They basically said that to help us sleep at night because I saw several private ski planes buzzing around Thunder Bay on many an occasion.

Just because someone in a private aircraft will fly their skiplane in certain conditions does not mean that those conditions are conducive for a student learning how to handle a taildragger on skis for the first time.
Besides, you weren't the first class to not get your full allotment of ski/taildragger time. Just the first class to bitch about it so much.

AZN 027 · Post by **AZN 027** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:37 pm

shimmydampner wrote: Just the first class to bitch about it so much.

Are you telling me you didn't bitch about the fact that you were promised something and didnt' get it?

This is an extreme example but say you chose to go to Sault College because they offered a multi IFR program but due to time constraints you couldnt' finish your IFR and in the end they just let you go without it. Wouldn't you be a little bit upset?

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:26 pm

That's exactly what I'm telling you. I for one was lucky enough to get a few hours, but those who didn't get any ski time did not bitch because they realized that as fun and challenging as it would be to get a couple hours of ski time, it wasn't important in the long run. A checkout on skis will not enhance the your chances of getting your first job. They also realized that they received first rate training at Con College that would serve them well once they graduated and they were all quite proud to have been a part of that.

Furthermore, the college makes no promise of ski or taildragger time. It is not even mentioned in the course calendar. From the AFM program website:

In addition, the Cessna 180 is fitted with skis for winter ski plane training, if weather permits.

The college does not now, and did not when I attended, make any promise of ski time. It has always been an "extra" if time, scheduling and weather conditions permit.

I'll say it again, just because someone is flying their private aircraft in certain conditions, does not mean that those conditions are suitable or safe to train a student in.

maniac779 · Post by **maniac779** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:47 pm

So here's a question then. Where does all the money the college gets to give people all this nifty training go when they don't give it to the students??

Probably to buy those high speed orange gloves that the students refuel airplanes with.

Basically, No flight schools should be government subsidized. Biggest waste of money ever.

AZN 027 · Post by **AZN 027** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:03 am

double post

AZN 027 · Post by **AZN 027** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:29 am

shimmydampener

I dunno where you're getting this stuff from the website, maybe you could post a link?

At the time that I signed up for the program, it was pretty conclusive that float, ski and tailwheel training was offered at this school and that the ski and tailwheel bit weren't "extras" so to speak.

The whole commercial pilots licence can be thought of as offered on a "if weather permits" basis if you like to think of it that way.

Ski and tailwheel training may not get me my first job. Thats fine but it will make me a better pilot by its exposure to challenging and different flying.

As far as first rate training at confederation college was concerned, it didn't help me at all when I graduated because the training was sub par at best. The things I did to get my first job were either self taught or taught by those who were already in the industry.

You're con college AFM experience was probably a lot different than mine because you were at the old building. From what I understand everybody had a good time in that building and there was a real "flying club" atmosphere that was present. The airplanes flew, people BBQ'd, hung out, learned more about aviation and relaxed. With the new building, they wanted a new image and I could see a lot of micromangement happening from up top. This lead to unmotivated instructors and so on so forth. So in the end thats probably why you liked flying at confed and I didn't think it was the greatest aviation school to go to.

That being said I do have to say that I enjoyed the float flying and the whole Shebandowan Lake experience very much. Thats where the confederation college flying excelled the most. But as for the general vibes of the ACE building, its garbage.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:47 am

So here's a question then. Where does all the money the college gets to give people all this nifty training go when they don't give it to the students??

Probably to buy those high speed orange gloves that the students refuel airplanes with.

Basically, No flight schools should be government subsidized. Biggest waste of money ever.

You're either to slow to understand how the concept of subsidies works, or you're really trying to over-complicate the idea. I'll try to make it simple for you. A college graduates X number of students and later receives Y dollars for each student graduated. This dollar amount is a blanket amount to cover each student. Multiply X and Y and you have the dollar amount received by the college. There are no separate amounts for ski, float, instrument training etc. etc. The college does not profit from not giving students ski training when conditions do not permit. You will still graduate with everything you are entitled to under the course calendar. In fact, most students graduate with more, since most graduate with well over 200 hours.

If you're so against subsidized flight training, why did you attend a subsidized college? I'm sure you enjoyed paying drastically less for your training. You don't mind being a hypocrite as long as you save a buck?

I dunno where you're getting this stuff from the website, maybe you could post a link?

At the time that I signed up for the program, it was pretty conclusive that float, SKI and WHEEL training was offered at this school.

http://www.confederationc.on.ca/flight-mgmt/faq.asp

Q. What resources are available?
A. We currently operate a total of thirteen single engine Cessna aircraft, with four of them being operated during the summer months on floats. These aircraft are; 11 Cessna 172’s, one Cessna 172 Hawk XP and a Cessna 180. The two latter as well as two additional 172's are put on floats in the summer for operation at our summer float base at Shebandowan Lake 100 kilometers west of Thunder Bay. In addition, the Cessna 180 is fitted with skis for winter ski plane training, if weather permits.

Ski and tailwheel training may not get me my first job. Thats fine but it will make me a better pilot by its exposure to challenging and different flying. As far as first rate training at confederation college was concerned, it didn't help me at all when I graduated because it was sub par at best. It may have been different for you because you were at the old building.

A couple hours of ski flying will not make you a discernably better pilot. I'm sorry to hear that you feel that your training was not up to par. Perhaps it was due to growing pains associated with the massive changes the program recently underwent. I personally feel that this is the biggest contributing factor. Any time a huge change like that is undertaken after over 3 decades of doing things a certain way, there are bound to be immense pressures on all staff members, particularly those at the top. Perhaps also you would have found that with a better attitude, things might have been a bit different as well. Who knows. I do know that I speak for myself and many others when I say that the training I received there was top notch and so were the instructors and I wouldn't have traded my time there for anything.

But as for the general vibes of the ACE building, its garbage.

I'm sure the vibe is much different for students now than it was then. In fact, I've heard quite a bit about what it's like now. It does sound quite different. That's why I say the glory days of that program died with the old hangar. It's too damn bad too. However, the huge increase in enrollment combined with an attempt to give the college a more polished image, probably contribute alot to a changing "vibe" from a flight club/informal one to one more professional and formal. Regardless, this change does not affect the fact that when you graduate you do so with an excellent 30+ year reputation behind you and are positioned extremely well to gain employment (if you were smart enough to match your career goals with the correct school.)
Perhaps instead of trying to slag your educator based on the most difficult year the program has experienced, you should inform them of your concerns so that they can address them. Like any other school, they would like to know how they can improve to better serve the students. Write a letter, send an email, pick up a phone but for god's sake don't just whine and do nothing. It's an insult to past grads.

maniac779 · Post by **maniac779** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:24 pm

Save a buck?

Hasn't this concept been beaten to death? Basically... if you have to go away to a flight school (ie move from home), paying for living and tution, your basically paying the exact same amount if if you lived at home and went to a local flying club.

And as for being against flying paid for by the government... I am only against it now after seeing that whole world in motion. When you sign up, it definatley sounds like the best idea going.

Why did I go to a flight college? Cause I wanted to go to college, and flying is a good time. It was 2 years out of my life. Good times! Money well spent. Time well spent.

As for the subsidy thing, okay, maybe I don't get how it works. But I do know the college keeps the program around cause it brings in a shit load of money for them.

You people take life too seriously.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:30 pm

Awwww...muffin. It's OK.

So, in regards to the cost of living, you didn't have the foresight to factor that into your decision to move away to college? Or did you assume you could somehow live for free?

Now that you have seen "that whole world in motion" what exactly is it that you feel is so wrong about the government subsudizing education. Personally, I think the government should be subsidizing all education programs, but that's getting into a political topic best left to other forums.

Yes, the AFM program does bring lots of money in to the college. As do all high-profile programs at other schools ie. the flight programs at Sault and Seneca, business @ Western, veterinary medicine @ Guelph, computers @ Waterloo, etc. The reason schools have a "premier" program that they offer is specifically for that reason. To raise the profile of the school and in turn bring in more money.

Just because I don't let you get away with making baseless statements doesn't mean I take life too seriously, it just means you should think before you speak/type. You'll get there. After all, you're a college graduate.

fingersmac · Post by **fingersmac** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:20 pm

maniac779 wrote:Save a buck?

Hasn't this concept been beaten to death? Basically... if you have to go away to a flight school (ie move from home), paying for living and tution, your basically paying the exact same amount if if you lived at home and went to a local flying club.

are you kidding me? the two year program (18 months) will cost me around $20K in OSAP, much less than what it would have cost to do the same training at my local flying club back home. and that $20K includes my rent and most of my living expenses!