Am I becoming Sweet'n'Juicy?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:41 pm

" Great motor skills, but sometimes truly dreadful judgement. Their brain is marinating in excessive amounts of testosterone, after all. "

Would it help their decision making to jerk e'm off before they go flying?

We had problems with our deer hunting dogs not coming home after the hunt, until we started jerking them off before we took them out. They always came back after that.

Cat

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:46 pm

until we started jerking them off before we took them out

I'm pretty sure the FBO is going to want to add a surcharge for THAT

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:10 pm

And of course TC will require a JOPC.

Big Pistons Forever · Post by **Big Pistons Forever** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:22 pm

From the postings so far, I do not believe the question " Is this a purely paper work issue or is it a safety issue" has been answered

Airtids, I gather you did not sign the back of his license initially because all his paper work was not in order. This could be the result of two things

1) He has done all the required training and passed the ground and flight tests, but his FTU did not do a proper job with his records; or

2) He has not completed all his training and or failed the ground or flight tests.

If the situation is No 1 then I would suggest it would be polite to have a short chat with him and point out the potential pitfalls of flying without the required documentation and leave it at that. He will either be gratefull or call you a a**hole. Either way you have done your bit for aviation.

If the situation is No 2 than I would not wish to be sharing airspace with a person who wilfully flys knowing he is not qualified and therefore I think he should be reported. That kind of attitude on his part will probably end in tragedy.

Therefore I would start by phoning his orginal FTU to find out his true status.

BTW I had a similar incident with a young man who was so keen to take his parents flying he did not wait for the AP to sign off his license. In that case he was in all other respects qualified and was otherwise good pilot and a reasonable guy. We had a private discussion which was all TX on my side and all RX on his and life went on. I believe he is now doing very well at JAZZ.

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:06 pm

until we started jerking them off before we took them out

Uhhhh.........

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:50 pm

Since you ask Robin, i'll throw in my 2 cents.

My opinion is to mind one's own business. His airplane, his licence, his business. On top of this we are talking about a signature on a piece of paper. In a sane world this would count for what it should: zero. Having a certain piece of paper does not change the safety of a flight one iota.

Now this is mostly a friendly business or pleasure.

Airtids wrote:I did speak with him, and let him know how I personally felt about it and asked him whether that flight was so important to him to risk his license and possible future employment opportunities.

That is great. A few times i have read about someone who minded his own business and later wished they would have been neighborly and offered a bit of advice. If you went over there with the intention of offering some friendly advice, then great. But when offering advice, if it is not taken that is too bad for them, not too bad for you. If you start getting mad that someone does not take your advice, then you go from being friendly helpful to a pain in the ass (comment not directed at you Airtids, just a generality). This kid may want to become a professional someday and your taking time to try and make him grow up a bit may prove very beneficial at some point. But if he is too stupid to be helped well, then it reverts to my previous statement: mind own business.

However, while i too have absolutely no respect for the rules i do follow them assiduously. We who are in this game for a living are best off playing by the rules in my opinion. And at the end of the day this is not a difficult thing to do. You say that you are covered by TC as you are acting as their agent. So i take it your livelihood is not threatened? If due diligence would require you to report this to enforcement then of course you should do so. The kid will have no one to blame but himself. But it sounds to me like you could wash your hands of this without having to worry about your AP status. Especially as if i understand this the only place your signature appears is on his original student pilot permit when he started his training.

Addendum: There is certainly such a thing as an interim certificate, be it medical, licence, or any other paperwork. If this kids paperwork was sitting in the transport office waiting to be processed and he got a hold of someone at TC who knew this, it is quite possible that they faxed him an interim licence. Though from the sounds of his organizational skills i would be surprised.

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:22 pm

OK. So here's where we are: No such thing as a "Special Flight Permit" unless you are trying to ferry an airplane. Kid had NO license, which was confirmed by his parents and TC (in a benign manner) the next day. His mom came in to find out what she should do, as now they were concerned with the Journey log entry. She indicated that it was HER fault for the kid going flying without the paperwork, as she told him she had straightned everything out. As a non-aviator, though, she really didn't have a clue. Truth is, he still had to have known that flying without the required docs is a no-no, but he did it anyways, and flouted the regs ON HIS FIRST FLIGHT! This is what my biggest concern was all along. I wanted to address the importance of him following the rules, because that IS in everyones best interest, and as an aviation professional, that makes it my business. Full stop.

The talk I had with both the kid and his mom were well received, I believe, so my job is done. This was my hope from the outset. Calling Enforcement wasn't a road I wanted to go down, but apparently others here did.

Thanks for everyone's input.