Did the Uinited States of America deserve...

[hazatude]

The 9/11 attacks?

[rotorhead350]

You be the bully all the time and push people around and one day they will stand up and push back. Mind you it might not have been the best way to push back but what do you do against a country that has all the weapons...................................

[hazatude]

So the flood/famine/pestilance relief was bullying? Yes. USA gives to non strategic targets...

Fucking people and thinking...

[Yoyoma]

So the flood/famine/pestilance relief was bullying? Yes. USA gives to non strategic targets...

Fucking people and thinking...

Where were they in Rwanda, Somalia, Congo, Burundi, Cambodia, etc. etc.?

And how about Darfur as we speak?

As much as I admire the US Empire, one cannot deny that they often look away until it is too late to act, then they send $$ in relief to buy people's trust back. Trust that could have been bought by saving lives instead!

It's a pretty good tactic that has been denounced by a few "insiders" but their cry for help is often muffled by a very controlled "propaganda" oriented government.

I just don't buy the US way of life!

YY

[fogghorn]

So the flood/famine/pestilance relief was bullying? Yes. USA gives to non strategic targets...

Fucking people and thinking...

??? WTF, what a whack job!!

[Scuba_Steve]

ACtually they were in somolia in a big way, only problem was that the somlies didn't want them, or anyone really for that matter, there.

As for the others, yep, they along with the rest of the world dropped the ball big time. what else is new.

Sorry, but I don't think that the murdering of 3000 innocent poeple can ever be justitfied, no matter who did what to whom.

The US does a lot of good int he world, its usally overshadowed by the darker aspects of their foriegn policy. I think when it comes to Darfur they have used the strongest language to date, calling it a genocide while the UN dithers...as usual. (mind you language does not = boots on the ground, but we all know where their troops are these days)

Cheers

[Yoyoma]

...while the UN dithers...as usual. .

The UN has always been the logistcal centerpoint of operations and without major powers like the US and the UK providing troops and supplies, not much but bureaucracy gets done!

I agree that the term Genocide regarding Darfur is a step forward and a good initiative of the US government but don't forget that Romeo Dallaire, in 2003, during a conference I actually attended, was warning about Darfur while the US didn't even know where it was located on the map.

[LH]

Perhaps the fact that the UN is a "morally bankrupt" organization has something to do with it? Maybe the fact that over 50% of the UN General Assembly haven't paid their dues in over 10 years got something to do with it? Or just maybe, the fact that Canada hasn't been paid for her "peacekeeping duties' on the UN's behalf for the last 10 years has something to do with it? Don't know about you folks, but I think a lot of people need to start paying their bills......and Canada's bill should be first because I'm getting tired of us financing our military to cover other peoples' asses when we can't afford to cover our own. How about a caveat to the UN?...."bills to be paid 30 days net or CAF re-called".

[hazatude]

So the flood/famine/pestilance relief was bullying? Yes. USA gives to non strategic targets...

Fucking people and thinking...

??? WTF, what a whack job!!

LOL!

I'm crazy for the truth...

[Nark]

Don't be so sure the US isn't in Darfur, Sudan as we speak. Preseident Bush asked for 242 million from congress in Feb of 2005, has it been delivered yet? I don't know.

I can only speak for Marines, but I know were in more places than just Iraq and Afgahnistan.
Just because your beloved CBC hasn't reported it, doesn't mean were not there.

[bob sacamano]

Sure the states pay and give alot of money.

The biggest bill isnt for hunger, or relief, its for israel in military aid.

Double standards? oh no ...

[w squared]

The bottom line is that the US military goes in when it accomplishes goals for the US administration in power. How long did the US wait to act before they did anything in the former Yugoslavia? How long did they dither and observe before they chose to not do anything substantial about Rwanda?

Since WWII, the US has been an empire-building nation. You can't just land the jarheads on a beach and claim it as part of the US of A anymore, so they've turned to other methods instead. The problem is that the CIA seldom proves more than middling competent, and often bungles things and ends up killing people without accomplishing the goals.

History has proven that humanitarian reasons won't motivate the US to do anything other than make a show of helping unless the disaster/genocide/incident is in their backyard. Just before Romeo D'Allaire's tour in Rwanda ended, he was told by a US staff officer that in light of the Task Force Ranger casualties in Somalia, the Clinton administration was extremely "risk-averse" when it came to casualties. When translated from doublespeak, that meant that they considered anything up to 800,000 Rwandan deaths acceptable before they would risk the lives of a US soldier.

The US isn't alone in being culpable in that failure of the world community, but they're more culpable than most - they have far more ability to respond to disasters/genocides/civil wars/incidents around the globe than anyone else.

Two guys are walking down the road, and they see a woman struggling to change a flat tire. She asks them for help, but they both refuse. One of them only has one arm, and begs off saying that he can't really help. The other one is in perfect health, is large and muscular, and happens to be an auto mechanic. He makes up an excuse about having a fancy dinner party to go to, and doesn't want to get his clothes dirty. The car then proceeds to fall on the woman as she continues to struggle with changing the tire.

Can anyone guess who the auto mechanic is in this little skit?

[cyyz]

The US isn't alone in being culpable in that failure of the world community, but they're more culpable than most - they have far more ability to respond to disasters/genocides/civil wars/incidents around the globe than anyone else.

Two guys are walking down the road, and they see a woman struggling to change a flat tire. She asks them for help, but they both refuse. One of them only has one arm, and begs off saying that he can't really help. The other one is in perfect health, is large and muscular, and happens to be an auto mechanic. He makes up an excuse about having a fancy dinner party to go to, and doesn't want to get his clothes dirty. The car then proceeds to fall on the woman as she continues to struggle with changing the tire.

Can anyone guess who the auto mechanic is in this little skit?

2 men walking down the road a women trying to change the tire, one keeps walking by and the woman screams at him "thanks for nothing asshole" then second man walks up and offers to help, she screams at him "you think I'm a retard and can't change the tire cause I'm a woman?"

That's exactly how the US is treated, it "helps" you bitch, they dont' help and you bitch....

You bitch when they poke their nose into another countries affairs yet are doing the very same thing criticizing them..

Because they're a super power you want so much from them and biatch about how it's too little, how much did China the "next super power and biggest/fastest growing" nation according to tabloids and several threads on here, how much did China donate to the Tsunami effort? Katrina? GW? Somalia? Rawanda?

So you want a super power that does shit all? Good well the US will pull out and stop trying to help, but wait then you'll come on here and biatch how they didn't do anything here and there....

PS. When you're a Peoples Republic of this Planets Biatch because you didn't open your yap about them for the last 20 years and only praised them how "look at china they're gonna squash the yanks" you'll soon notice your right to open that yap has been revoked and if you do open it, you'll thankfully be shot....

------------------------

Do I support the fanatics? Sure, to bad the Yanks were a bunch of pansies and didn't napalm their asses, eye for an eye....

[Yoyoma]

Don't be so sure the US isn't in Darfur, Sudan as we speak. Preseident Bush asked for 242 million from congress in Feb of 2005, has it been delivered yet? I don't know.

I can only speak for Marines, but I know were in more places than just Iraq and Afgahnistan.
Just because your beloved CBC hasn't reported it, doesn't mean were not there.

there's already been 2-3 maybe 400,000 death. The IC is having a hard time keeping count. Experts are saying that between 600,000 to 1M are on the verge of famine and will most likely die due to various diseases. Another 1-2M refugees could be saved with immediate intervention. Those numbers are old, I can't believe that I can write this with a straight face while you're telling us "Don't be so sure the US isn't in Darfur"!

Sure, the US might be in there, what the hell are they doing, making sure their assets are untouched?? I don't see people refraining from catching diseases or from starving! I don't see talks with the government! The US is acting the same way as they did with Cambodia, except there hasn't been any Vietnam scandal to justify such neglect and disregard for human life!

[shimmydampner]

[That's exactly how the US is treated, it "helps" you bitch, they dont' help and you bitch....

You bitch when they poke their nose into another countries affairs yet are doing the very same thing criticizing them....

There's a world of difference between sticking your nose in another countries affairs by way of Tomahawk missiles vs. "sticking your nose in" by way of disaster relief efforts. It's not hard to see why people have a problem with the former. I don't think too many people have a problem with the latter.

Because they're a super power you want so much from them and biatch about how it's too little, how much did China the "next super power and biggest/fastest growing" nation according to tabloids and several threads on here, how much did China donate to the Tsunami effort? Katrina? GW? Somalia? Rawanda?

Maybe you should have a least some small idea of what the f*** you are talking about before you spout off and make yourself look like a total ass.
http://www.china.org.cn/english/feature ... 116634.htm
Here's a small sampling of the information you'll find on this site.

China Donates 1.2 Bln Yuan to India Ocean Tsunami-hit Countries
China Lab Helps DNA Identification of Tsunami Victims
China Offers Disaster Relief Assistance to Indonesia
Chinese Relief Supplies Heading to Indonesia
More Funds Granted for Tsunami Relief Work
Donations Reach $500m
Laborers to Join in Tsunami Clean-up
Chinese Medical Team Wraps Up Aid Work in Sri Lanka
China Sends Relief Materials to Maldives
Non-governmental Donations to Tsunami-hit Regions Exceed 150 Million Yuan
US$12.7m Raised from Civilian Donations
China to Add Medical Aid to Sri Lanka
More Chinese Medical Workers to Be Sent to Tsunami-hit Countries
China Starts Largest Foreign Disaster Relief
Chinese Rescuers Help out in Indonesia
China to Provide Technical Support to Tsunami-hit Region
China to Send Second Aid Shipment to Tsunami-hit Countries
China Promises 500 mln More Aid to Tsunami-hit Nations

So you want a super power that does shit all? Good well the US will pull out and stop trying to help, but wait then you'll come on here and biatch how they didn't do anything here and there....

PS. When you're a Peoples Republic of this Planets Biatch because you didn't open your yap about them for the last 20 years and only praised them how "look at china they're gonna squash the yanks" you'll soon notice your right to open that yap has been revoked and if you do open it, you'll thankfully be shot....

------------------------

Do I support the fanatics? Sure, to bad the Yanks were a bunch of pansies and didn't napalm their asses, eye for an eye....

WTF?? I'm curious, how long do you have to dig around in your ass before you pull out a gem like that?

[Dust Devil]

I just don't buy the US way of life!

YY

What a load of bull. Your way of life is exactly the same as the U.S way of life. drop the holier than thou attitude

[shimmydampner]

I just don't buy the US way of life!

YY

What a load of bull. Your way of life is exactly the same as the U.S way of life. drop the holier than thou attitude

I have American relatives that would disagree with that. In fact, they are tired of the US way of life and prefer the Canadian way. They feel so strongly that this difference exists that they are moving Canada.

[Yoyoma]

I just don't buy the US way of life!

YY

What a load of bull. Your way of life is exactly the same as the U.S way of life. drop the holier than thou attitude

How can you claim that without knowing me? It's a pretty arrogant statement Dust.

I've traveled and lived all over the world, I fluently speak 4 languages which I put to good use when I'm dealing with other cultures, in fact, it helps me understand how others feel and think. I've seen different ways of life and values and I think you're wrong if you think we, Canadians, live by the same values as our neighbours. Even other countries clearly see the distinct differences in values between the two countries.

If you don’t see any differences, it doesn’t mean you’re wrong or blind, it might mean that you, DD, live by American values and not Canadian ones (and I don't mean MacDonald's).

[Dust Devil]

I just don't buy the US way of life!

YY

What a load of bull. Your way of life is exactly the same as the U.S way of life. drop the holier than thou attitude

How can you claim that without knowing me? It's a pretty arrogant statement Dust.

I've traveled and lived all over the world, I fluently speak 4 languages which I put to good use when I'm dealing with other cultures, in fact, it helps me understand how others feel and think. I've seen different ways of life and values and I think you're wrong if you think we, Canadians, live by the same values as our neighbours. Even other countries clearly see the distinct differences in values between the two countries.

If you don’t see any differences, it doesn’t mean you’re wrong or blind, it might mean that you, DD, live by American values and not Canadian ones (and I don't mean MacDonald's).

Once again what a load of crap. who are you to decide what canadian and american values are. I've traveled from the NWT all the way down to Texas and all I've seen is people with the same basic values. being pro bush or anti bush has nothing to do with having a different canadian or american values. I beleive we have a North American Culture here with a variety of different values within that region. Not every american supports the same value system as every other american, and not every canadian supports the values of every other canadian. In fact if you want to judge it by political polls then you would see that they have never been closer on both sides of the border.

[Yoyoma]

Stop being so vulgar. Geez. The fact that YOU saw the same values speaks strongly of your values. I haven't seen the same values down south, sure, not all Americans are alike, but I'm generalising for the sake of the arguments because most, or the majority that we encounter are like that. (Many people will tell you that Seattle folks are sort of pick on by the rest of the country. They are Tree huggers, don't like religion/politics to be mixed together and work hard at preserving Nature...Much like the Vancouver community)

How come shimmydampner's relatives don't find our values alike? How come the Americans I live and work with here in Canada don't think American values are the same...How come the rest of the world finds us of two different breeds?

You talk politics. What have the Americans done to separate themselves from Money, Politics and Religion??? Nothing. Their every move is based on that trinity! When Canada sends Hercs abroad, or donates money to a Country, it is not always based on strenghting relations, or securing an oil NYSX trade off, sometimes, we happen to care about other things than the Bald eagles and the Majestic Flag...

[cyyz]

Non-governmental Donations to Tsunami-hit Regions Exceed 150 Million Yuan
US$12.7m Raised from Civilian Donations

WTF?? I'm curious, how long do you have to dig around in your ass before you pull out a gem like that?

150,000,000.00 CNY
China Yuan Renminbi = 18,593,024.75 USDUnited States Dollars

So a population with 1 billion people donated 20 cents per person and a country with 400 million donated 30 cents per person. *claps* Go America....

And as for my last statement, pulled it out my ass? What are you talking about I told you I don't care what they do to Americans, I don't care what they do to them. I don't cry when an Isreali kills a pal, I don't cry when a Pal blows up on the bus... People have created this cesspool. I've given up any hope for the human race... I think the planet would be better off if we all just went about it already and finished each other off....

[cyyz]

When Canada sends Hercs abroad, or donates money to a Country, it is not always based on strenghting relations, or securing an oil NYSX trade off, sometimes, we happen to care about other things than the Bald eagles and the Majestic Flag...

Isn't Chretien a member of the UN now, or has he not received his appointment yet?

Don't be silly reduce our taxes to 0-10% and you'll see how much money the government would be able to 'toss around.' We give so we feel good about ourselves and can sleep at night and so we can tell ourselves the very thing I've put in bold.

If we didn't pay a penny in taxes, you watch how much people would donate to "worthy" causes....

It's not like we had a referendum to see if we should send DART or those Hercs anywhere, the tax mans come and gone and already decided where that money goes, and lucky for us all the money we've blown on all these other projects has left a chunk of our population in poverty and now they commit crimes and how will we solve this problem? By increasing taxes to create "new" programs to help the poor...

PS. if you do reply(thanks) and post a link how we already "donate" so much money, also remember 1 key factor TAX RECEIPTS...

[Yoyoma]

cyyz, I'm not sure what your background is or experience in the industry is, but I would like to point out that money is not just "blown". It's a very typical statement, made by the majority of the population when referring to Government or Companies.

I remember the French population screaming murder when the A380 program was 1.3 Billion dollars over budget. People started saying the idiots in Management are "blowing" their/our money away!

It's an easy statement to make but do you (and I ask this in a very general context) think that politicians and businessman just walk into a position, with multi-millions of dollars and start spending until it's all gone? People make fun of Paul Martin; that guy made more money for his ex-companies than any previous CEO who wore his shoes. He's a millionaire who knows how to penny pinch and make the dough work for him.

Maybe it's just not that easy to make everything work as a political leader when opposition parties, votes, democracies and what not is interfering! Definitely not the way things work in a corporation...

I agree, we're not all angels here in Canada, but you should read or talk to some of our military guys who have served alongside the French, the Americans, the Belgians, the Germans...and then make your own opinion of values and human life. I made mine years ago, and I still stand by it today, whatever people say...

I've seen what I've seen and it will take more than a Dust Devil type to make me forget the horror committed daily by other major superpowers.

[LH]

Yoyama --------you better keep on travellng then because your travels aren't quite complete yet sir. Sorry to blow your "propagandist bubble" and that of others, but the days when Canadians were considered totally distinct from their American cousins is GONE and what little morsels are left are disappearing fast. We pat ourselves on the back about our differences compared to Americans, but to the vast majority of the rest of the world and specially the Middle East, those miniscule differences we think so large, mean nothing. We talk, walk, dress, eat and look like Americans. We are a Christian nation as they are, share the same "motherland's values, speak English, are a democracy as they are, serve in each other militaries, fought in many of the same large wars together, are protected by them, marry each other, have Canadian members of the entertainment industry in their midst, are rich like they are, large country as they are and conduct wars in conjunction with them and our troops' uniforms are very similar. They have troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, while we also have troops in Afghanistan also and provide anti-terrorism support off-shore with the RCN in support of the USN.

So wake-up buddy, get your naive head out of your arse and keep on travelling because you've got a pile more to learn. When you are finished doing that, then come on back home and tell other naive members of the Canadian population that they can stop waving the Maple Leaf and pointing at how much better we are considered on the world stage. Sorry, buddy, but I've worked and travelled both Far East and the Middle East and get it through your thick head..........we are one and the same with Americans because all Canadians don't have the same accent and neither do all Americans. You appreciate the relationship though when a member of the Canadian Embassy tells you privately that if you get your ass in trouble, to get that ass as quickly as possible to the American Embassy.....if you can......... at least they'll cover that ass.

There is ONE way though that you can tell an American from a Canadian worldwide. Canadians will sit together in a bar in some hotel and in the presence of others and with loud voices, will bitch about their own country..........while Americans won't. More than once I've interrupted conversations like that and told people that they were an embarrassment and to shut their bloody mouthes or lower their voices.

[Dust Devil]

Stop being so vulgar. Geez. The fact that YOU saw the same values speaks strongly of your values.

What do you have against the values of those in northern canada now? If you read my post it said I saw the same values in the NWT as when I was in Texas. Please explain how that is a reflection on my own values? I would appreciate if you would please tell me what it is I value?