Just wondering what kinda minimums are normally needed to get your foot in the door wit hregards to ag flying. I'd imagine that you're likely to spend a season mixing chemicals and the like before anyone'll put you in the cockpit.
What about training. 40 hour course - how's it viewed, will people prefer to train you themselves (less to un-learn?)
Ag Flying
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Rudder Bug
w-
Good question and it doesn't have a concrete answer (of course).
I can only speak for the company I work for which is in the US but, looking at the direction things are headed, I think it's a good model for Canada too.
We hire guys to work the mix plant first before they get a chance at the entry level machine (Cessna Ag Truck). That way they get to see what's going on with the chemicals and procedures before diving into the hot seat. Next step is the Cessna then, if you show potential, a small turbine.
Flaggers aren't used very much anymore thanks to GPS.
The guy we have on the ramp right now has flown skydivers and towed banners, both of which used tailwheel a/c. Suffice it to say that, unless you have taildragger time (more than 10 hours for the basic checkout) you probably won't be considered. A training course doesn't hurt (there are a FEW of them around) to get a grasp on Satloc and tailwheel a/c as well as ag procedures.
Ag flying isn't rocket science but, in my opinion, it is one of the most dangerous fields of aviation.
Get a bunch of tailwheel time and look into a course. It helps with insurance (which is a BIG factor) and gives you some credibility with the operators. Talk to some of the operators, maybe go to the CAAA convention next winter to meet some of them face to face.
Check out the Canadian Aerial Applicator's Association website
Also give Lloyd Good a call, he's a neat guy and easy to talk to. He's listed on that website under Sask.
There's training links there. Good luck! It's a good close knit industry.
Good question and it doesn't have a concrete answer (of course).
I can only speak for the company I work for which is in the US but, looking at the direction things are headed, I think it's a good model for Canada too.
We hire guys to work the mix plant first before they get a chance at the entry level machine (Cessna Ag Truck). That way they get to see what's going on with the chemicals and procedures before diving into the hot seat. Next step is the Cessna then, if you show potential, a small turbine.
Flaggers aren't used very much anymore thanks to GPS.
The guy we have on the ramp right now has flown skydivers and towed banners, both of which used tailwheel a/c. Suffice it to say that, unless you have taildragger time (more than 10 hours for the basic checkout) you probably won't be considered. A training course doesn't hurt (there are a FEW of them around) to get a grasp on Satloc and tailwheel a/c as well as ag procedures.
Ag flying isn't rocket science but, in my opinion, it is one of the most dangerous fields of aviation.
Get a bunch of tailwheel time and look into a course. It helps with insurance (which is a BIG factor) and gives you some credibility with the operators. Talk to some of the operators, maybe go to the CAAA convention next winter to meet some of them face to face.
Check out the Canadian Aerial Applicator's Association website
Also give Lloyd Good a call, he's a neat guy and easy to talk to. He's listed on that website under Sask.
There's training links there. Good luck! It's a good close knit industry.
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Like everything in aviation it all depends on how bad you want to do it.
I had 250 hours total time when I was hired and given a crop spraying course plus the Ag. app. license course.
Like Flybabe said it ain't rocket science but you had better know what you are doing or you may kill yourself.
Of all the jobs in aviation ag. flying was my favourite.
Follow Flybabes advice and good luck.
Cat Driver:
I had 250 hours total time when I was hired and given a crop spraying course plus the Ag. app. license course.
Like Flybabe said it ain't rocket science but you had better know what you are doing or you may kill yourself.
Of all the jobs in aviation ag. flying was my favourite.
Follow Flybabes advice and good luck.
Cat Driver:
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Thanks Flybabe and Cat. Anyone know of a flight school that does/would do CPL training with a tail dragger (two birds with one monetary stone...) One in Western Canada would be ideal.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
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wollypilot
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:18 am
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wollypilot
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:18 am
Ag Training
W Squared,
I believe there is a training school in Yorkton and I think Fran De Kock does one in North Battleford.
If you want a really good school to go too, check out Ag-Flight Inc., in Bainbridge, Georgia. I attended there in 1995 and know the owner. His name is Billy Howell. I have not talked to him in a couple of years, but know that the school is still operating. Great Operation. They are a flight training school as well. It will cost you some bucks, but will pay off in the long run. Every bit of the training is deductable. Keep all your travel and meal receipts.
I still have Billy's number if you want it. Let me know. It is too late for a seat for this season if you are not trained for it, so doing it over the winter is a good time.
As was mentioned, Lloyd Goode is a really good contact in the industry. Don't let any operator train you. Go to an approved school. It is becoming the way of the future, especially for insurance purposes.
Keep the blue side up
Tomcatter
I believe there is a training school in Yorkton and I think Fran De Kock does one in North Battleford.
If you want a really good school to go too, check out Ag-Flight Inc., in Bainbridge, Georgia. I attended there in 1995 and know the owner. His name is Billy Howell. I have not talked to him in a couple of years, but know that the school is still operating. Great Operation. They are a flight training school as well. It will cost you some bucks, but will pay off in the long run. Every bit of the training is deductable. Keep all your travel and meal receipts.
I still have Billy's number if you want it. Let me know. It is too late for a seat for this season if you are not trained for it, so doing it over the winter is a good time.
As was mentioned, Lloyd Goode is a really good contact in the industry. Don't let any operator train you. Go to an approved school. It is becoming the way of the future, especially for insurance purposes.
Keep the blue side up
Tomcatter
lol-
wollypilot
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:18 am
Another question for folks like Flybabe...
What percentage of the ag industry here in Canada is rotary-wing? I've seen about 10% quoted with respect to the US industry...
I've been looking at some of the sites in the US, and I'm seeing some comments on the advantage of the rotor downwash in terms of producing good penetration in crop with a tall standing height (sugarcane?)
That got me to thinking - what about the orchards in the BC interior? Are the same issues relevant there?
What percentage of the ag industry here in Canada is rotary-wing? I've seen about 10% quoted with respect to the US industry...
I've been looking at some of the sites in the US, and I'm seeing some comments on the advantage of the rotor downwash in terms of producing good penetration in crop with a tall standing height (sugarcane?)
That got me to thinking - what about the orchards in the BC interior? Are the same issues relevant there?
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
Well, we run 3 helos, 1 Hiller, 1 Soloy Hiller and a Bell 206 (?). Might be looking at another 206..
I think they definitely have their place. I've been contemplating rotary training this fall if I have a good summer. We use them in tight quarters (small fields, close to town, obstructions, sensitive work).
Helo as work is not one of those industries that take you with a fresh commercial, same as fixed wing (generally). I would imagine you could expect to spend some time in the bush slinging loads before you have "enough" time for an ag operator. Has to do with insurance, yada yada.
I must confess this is another question I can't tell you much about back home in Canada, jsut what I see here.
I agree with Tomcatter - don't let the operator train you. For obvious reasons.
I think they definitely have their place. I've been contemplating rotary training this fall if I have a good summer. We use them in tight quarters (small fields, close to town, obstructions, sensitive work).
Helo as work is not one of those industries that take you with a fresh commercial, same as fixed wing (generally). I would imagine you could expect to spend some time in the bush slinging loads before you have "enough" time for an ag operator. Has to do with insurance, yada yada.
I must confess this is another question I can't tell you much about back home in Canada, jsut what I see here.
I agree with Tomcatter - don't let the operator train you. For obvious reasons.
I'm working my first year on the ground for Lloyd Good in Rosetown, SK. Great guy, He will help you out any way he can! And he knows everyone in the business.
I flew skydivers and have a few hours in a tail wheel, but no ag course. Lloyd is going to be training me through out the summer and hopefully next season I'll get my chance to fly some loads, but until then its alot of chemical mixing, hanger work, and maintenance.
Good Luck
I flew skydivers and have a few hours in a tail wheel, but no ag course. Lloyd is going to be training me through out the summer and hopefully next season I'll get my chance to fly some loads, but until then its alot of chemical mixing, hanger work, and maintenance.
Good Luck
Hey com
Tell Lloyd that the blonde Canadian ag pilot in the US that he met in Reno at convention says "howdy"
Tell Lloyd that the blonde Canadian ag pilot in the US that he met in Reno at convention says "howdy"
Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
- Amelia Earhart
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CrimsonSkies
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Hey Flybabe....
I flew the Tiger Moth yesterday off a small farm strip north of London England.
It was everything I had imagined...it was to die for as a fun experience.
I actually thought I had gone back forty five years and was crop dusting with a Stearman...... Wave
Cat
I flew the Tiger Moth yesterday off a small farm strip north of London England.
It was everything I had imagined...it was to die for as a fun experience.
I actually thought I had gone back forty five years and was crop dusting with a Stearman...... Wave
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cat... you're such a tease... 
LMAO
LMAO
Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
- Amelia Earhart
Hey Flybabe,
Just curious, would one NEED to work in the mix plant in order to make a good ag pilot or is this just another source of cheap labour in aviation. I mean, couldnt you learn the theory of loading and the science behind the chemicals in a classroom and be considered just as safe? The reason I ask is because i have thought about ag flying but really dont want to be mixing up any cancer cocktails. BTW, what is the exposure to the chemicals like inside the cockpit? Once u get spraying can u smell the chemical you just left on the previous pass? Are there any health risks aside from crashing? Thanks in advace for the info.
Neechi
Flybabe wrote;
"We hire guys to work the mix plant first before they get a chance at the entry level machine (Cessna Ag Truck). That way they get to see what's going on with the chemicals and procedures before diving into the hot seat."
Just curious, would one NEED to work in the mix plant in order to make a good ag pilot or is this just another source of cheap labour in aviation. I mean, couldnt you learn the theory of loading and the science behind the chemicals in a classroom and be considered just as safe? The reason I ask is because i have thought about ag flying but really dont want to be mixing up any cancer cocktails. BTW, what is the exposure to the chemicals like inside the cockpit? Once u get spraying can u smell the chemical you just left on the previous pass? Are there any health risks aside from crashing? Thanks in advace for the info.
Neechi
Flybabe wrote;
"We hire guys to work the mix plant first before they get a chance at the entry level machine (Cessna Ag Truck). That way they get to see what's going on with the chemicals and procedures before diving into the hot seat."
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Chubbaguts
- Rank 0
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:30 am
AG Flying
Just wondering if there are anymore people that train Ag Pilots in the US.... maybe western states? I have checked out the CAAA website and there were only 2 or 3 there. Also has anyone got an idea of cost for the 40 hours of training?? I have recently come back from a trip to Australia and I got a quote there for AUD16500, which included 30hours in a C185 and 10hours in a 400hp C188. The guy told me that with tailwheel time the 30hrs in the C185 probably wouldn't all get done unless you forgot how to fly but the 10 hrs in the C188 was well worth it.
I would apprecite any thoughts, comments or advice.
I would apprecite any thoughts, comments or advice.
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CrimsonSkies
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:34 pm
$15000 divided by 40..............$375/hr pretty expensive pawnee. Looks like a "bought PPC" syndrome. Besides, the fact that there are a few hard working ground handlers who deserve a seat, guys coming out of school are trying to scoop the jobs. The easiest part of Ag flying is the flying, it takes time to learn WHEN to spray to ensure the job gets done safely and efficiently. Ag flying is not a big time builder, but its a great career
We are the hard working ground handlers who take this course. You put your time in on the ground either before or after your traning. You rarely see guys getting a flying position in thier first year. As for the actual training, they don't teach you how to fly, you should already know how to do that, they teach you how to spray. Which includes: pre feild inspection, knowing your winds and drift, when to turn your booms on and off, extensive work with SATLOC, the different spray systems that are used, how to underfly wires, proper turns, the list goes on. To say that your paying $15000 for 40 hrs is bullshit, your there 7 days a week for 4 to 6 weeks, your paying for the knowledge and experiance, not the flight time. The time in the GA was invaluable. To have the instructor sit next to you while you spray (as opossed to watching you from the ground) so he can show you the proper techniques and point out any mistake that you are making, big or small, was worth every penny.
D
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