Schools say industry "Begging" for AME's???

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Pat Richard
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Post by Pat Richard »

I was wondering if you were still wrenching Ducky. Good for you that you've moved on to something that pays decent.
Interesting point about the fast food joints.. they are short handed, and are having some trouble recruiting.. so what do they do? They pull there heads out of their asses and do what they need to do. Pay enough to attract and hold onto staff. Mickey D's is even offering scholarships to employee's/employee's kids. Can't say I've ever seen that in aviation.
Although work is picking up in aviation, the same is still expected of AME's in regards to pay, lifestyle, etc. And with everything else booming tradeswise, particularly Alberta, it's going to be tough for most places to find experienced AME's with what they're offering. :D



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Last edited by Pat Richard on Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tellyourkidstogetarealjob
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Post by tellyourkidstogetarealjob »

In response to gli77 et al:

I can't contol myself...
Most people enter the industry and have no set goals or ambitions.
That's pretty patronizing. Most people I know entered the industry with very definite goals. They had to change several times in response to the industry. It's called adaptability, and is more important in this industry than skill.

look for ads that are looking for ICAO type II licences.
Your information is three years out of date.
I have heard Spar in Edmonton pays well.
Your information is three years out of date.
CHC global has also advertised recently with a good rotational shift.


You've obviously spent no time in the rotor world or have forgotten it.
an AME has a two year college diploma. If you want a guaranteed six figure income then you had better be a degree’s engineer or a doctor. For that you will require much more education.
[


Did I miss something? I don't actually see anyone in this thread asking for a six figure income.

What most of them seem to be upset about is certain practices in this industry such as:

- hiring apprentices on salary then working them so much they effectively earn less than minimum wage on some rotations (still happens in helicopter world)

- hiring apprentices at the princely sum of $10 - $14 p/h and informing them they are "lucky to have a job", if they balk at excessive overtime or complain about inconsistant shifts.

- job postings for licensed AME's bragging a starting wage at $17.00 per hour. Often the same companies over and over but some poor, desperate person must occasionally bite or they'd improve the wage.

- job postings for experienced, licensed AMEs with multiple endorsements who advertise a "competitive wage" just to find they mean competitive with Superstore.

etc, etc.

I'd like to ask a few questions of those that agree with gli77:

1) What do you consider a decent starting wage for someone who has outstanding student loans or debt to family?

2) Who paid for your education?

3) How many times have you been married?

4) Do your children resemble you? (If you need help with this question feel free to post pictures of yourself and your kids and the reader can make up their own mind)

5) Why do you feel a profession that is already hard on family life should also have a below average pay scale just so John Q. Public can fly to Europe for $499.00 + taxes and fees return? (Which is actually less than in 1970, much less when you consider 1970 dollars).

6) How's that pension plan doing in the airline/AMO your working in?

Most of the travel I've done in this industry has been airport to airport. I've seen many places but I know nothing about them. When someone asks me if I've been somewhere I usually feel a bit of a fraud to say I have.

For what it's worth, I also am doing better than average in this industry. However, I recognize a lot of luck was involved and I'm only one misstep from falling on my backside.

And now for something completely different...

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It's a different subject but I don't agree government regulation is the answer. Government is much of the reason for the existing situation.

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There seems to be a myth pilots are so well paid. A lot of smaller companies pay about the same for AMEs as pilots. Most f/o salaries are a joke. We all hear the 747 captain at $250,000 a year but these are exceptions, not the rule. That's sort of like envying a lottery winner.

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Pat Richard
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Post by Pat Richard »

Amen Brother. Welcome to the dark side :wink:
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gli77
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Post by gli77 »

I'll settle this once and for all. Being a mechanic sucks. Don't become one, if you are one stop being one, your life is over!

I should clarify that I am E licenced so if you are looking to work in aviation this is obviously the way to go. I have been doing it for 8 years and quite enjoy it. Been many places and made good money. The only thing I would do different is completed electrical engineering first, then do avionics. Other than that I am quite happy.

And no, ads listing ICAO type II licences are not 3 years out of date. I am on a contract right now that listed this requirement.

Good luck, and remember mechanics bad, avionics good.
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tellyourkidstogetarealjob
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Post by tellyourkidstogetarealjob »

I agree with you about an E license. It's definitely the future in this industry.

One of the younger baggage smashers where I work took advice to do an E license instead of M and I think he's glad he did.

The reason I don't think ICAO type II isn't all that in demand is because it seems to me there's been fewer ads in the last three years unless it's an obscure African or Middle Eastern country - even with things picking a bit lately. Then again, I'm not checking out the E license ads.

The only country that I know of that accepts a Canadian license at face value is New Zealand.

If the Europeans ever get themselves organized and they and the U.S. reach some sort of agreement it may get better. However, the speed that's happening most of us will be retired.
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flyboy9000
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What trade?

Post by flyboy9000 »

If you guys could do it over, what trade would you get into? I'm tired of the computer thing and want to do something else. I love avaiation but I don't think I could handle all the BS. I currently live in Calgary and I'm thinking about getting into welding or plumbing.

j
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Pat Richard
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Post by Pat Richard »

For me, a machinist. They make the same, or more, and its usually normal hours, and its also interesting.
The choices you mention both pay better than AME's, and offer better hours, with welding being the more physically demanding. Guys with their own rigs though, make unbelievable amounts of money. Electrician would also be a good choice. I have friends in all the above mentioned fields, and they all do better than all AME's I know, especially when you factor in lifestyle. I know a few AME's who almost do as well financially, but there personal life is non existent.
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tellyourkidstogetarealjob
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Post by tellyourkidstogetarealjob »

Electricians are the envy of the building trades. Easiest job physically. Come to work clean, leave clean, get paid the most. Not as weather-dependent as some trades.

Machinist/Millwright or even plumbing. At least people really think hard before calling their plumber at 2:30 a.m. because they know it'll cost - unlike their A.M.E.

Welding could be hard on the back when older.

Met someone a few years ago who specialised in repair and service of hospital x-ray equipment. Made a mint but I don't know how he fell into it as I don't think he was a mechanical eng. technologist.
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Ducky
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Post by Ducky »

Mine would be Firefighter at the Calgary Airport!

Actually that is what I am working towards as we speak. Use the knowledge that I have gained working in aviation to my advantage when undertaking a new challenge.
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sledneck800
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Post by sledneck800 »

Well then, I guess I'm totally screwed after reading all of that!

I'll be graduating from the AME program at CONA in gander in april, and there's already "talks" that company x and company y will be hiring apprentices because they are expecting to be short handed this summer.

I was recently talking to the owner of a local AMO and flight school about employment and he explicitly indicated that if hired I would be worked hard all the time, not all maintence either. And even before getting hired I would have to proove my worth by Grooming one of his charters and no pay!

Then to top it all off, the pay is about $8-10 an hour! I'm currently working at Wal-mart part time while going to school and with very little job responsibily I'm getting $7.50/h!


So far from talking to instructors at school, the only advice I can intrepret is get with a fairly large rotary wing operator as smaller fixed wing amo's are hauling apprentices over the coals.

If someone was to slap me in the face with advice, please someone hit me now!
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Pat Richard
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Post by Pat Richard »

No offense, but what kept you from finding all this out before you went off to school, and are the rest of your classmates as surprised as you? what are the instructors comments on what you've discovered?
The situations you're describing sound very shitty, and definately worse than I encountered years ago. The wage offered is also considerably less.
As for advice, kick your instructors in the nuts, and move to alberta, lotsa work out there that pays much better. and never ever work for free. Only a retard works for free.
Also, tell everyone the truth about aviation. Maybe you'll save someone a trip down the same road.
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Nightshiftzombie
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Post by Nightshiftzombie »

Don't get too depressed about the local shit. Most outfits that are handy to a school will try and get an apprentice to work for nothing. They figure there is usually someone so desperate to stay home that they will work for nothing. Like Pat said if you are willing to get out of Atlantic Canada (the black hole of shitty pay) things do get a little better.
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Ducky
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Post by Ducky »

Yes, move to Alberta! Work for the oil and gas companies on the drilling rigs. For a week long course, you can begin working as a leasehand (kind of like an apprentice roughneck) for roughly $20/hr for 8 hrs, then time and a half for the next 4 hours, usually a 12 hour day. The companies will provide lodging either at a camp or hotel plus a per diem and travel time. The only drawback is having to travel lots, a bit of isolation, and live out of a bag for a while. Highly physical plus having to weather the elements. If you are assigned to a drilling rig (the better option) you work a week of nights, then a week of days, followed by a week off. Pay is excellent and the companies are screaming for people! Nabors, Precision, and Ensign are the companies I know of. Or just go to the Edmonton International Airport and walk over to Nisku/Leduc where a lot of the rig companies are located. In a year you could have your vehicle paid off and a deposit on a house (if you avoid the sauce and drugs)!
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Post by ramp_rat »

Teachers have to BS students because it is their job on the line. The more students that come the better for the school, the teachers get to keep their jobs. A lot of students graduate every year, and a lot of them end up becoming baggage smashers especially at yyz. I am one of the lucky ones to get a job after a year, and only about ten percent from my class got a job. Remember, a lot of graduates are hopeful to get a job at the big city, Air Canada, Westjet, Skyservice, like myself and found that there are more companies out there. If you are willing to work up north or outside the big cities, there are a lot of jobs. If you expect to get a job at AC, not at this time. I still remember, AC was hiring straight from my school before 9/11 and after that, nothing. Why become an aircraft maintenance when you could become a millwright and make more money? That's my next step, to become a millwright, and get out of aviation!!!
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jsmetalbashers
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Post by jsmetalbashers »

Wha,wha,wha. People need to research this industry before they get involved in it. If you could just as easily be a millright or go work in Alberta on the oil rigs, do that. Aviation is'nt for people who want to go to school and get a job in the same town as mom and dad. Its an adventure, and the list of destinations does'nt usually include Toronto or Vancouver or any other desirable place to live. Check the help wanted pages and decide if you want to live in the North for a few years before you sign up for your overpriced ame course, because this industry is not glamorous and there are a lot of #ssholes running the companies out there. I happened to get lucky and I enjoy what I do and where I live, but I knew what I was getting into before I signed up for it.
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Post by Theman »

Hear hear!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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