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Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
I don't see any reason why they would. WestJet has gone to great lengths to get rid of their older airplanes, why would they want CJ's? WestJet right now has fleet comanality with crews, mechanics and parts why would they want another type? WestJet employee's have a distinct culture that is not CJ's. WestJet only wants one base and it isn't halifax. Good luck integrating seniority based employee's into WJ's culture. IMP got away with getting rid of their money losing airline once, I don't think its going to happen again.
I see no advantages for WestJet to purchase Canjet. I have heard that Canjet is not profitable, they use a different (more expensive) type, mergers are always big headaches, and it would be seen as getting rid of a competitor. Advantages; hangar space? Are you kidding? As for attracting market share, the answer there is to get more aircraft, so that we can add more routes out east. It is coming. I think WestJet would like more of a presence out east, but I think they want to do it the old fashioned way--compete for it, not just buy up any competitor, to try to eliminate competition. Provide a good service for a good price, and see what happens.
I could see an argument being made for buying Zoom (still a minefield), but I really don't see the upside to buying CJ.
I could see an argument being made for buying Zoom (still a minefield), but I really don't see the upside to buying CJ.
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sky's the limit
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metal overcast
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Re: CanJet - WestJet
737Mech wrote:Why doesn't WestJet just buy CanJet and get it over with because they are having a hard time getting market share in the east
You're kidding right? How come we have to put an -800 on YQM and why is it that I can never get to YHZ or YYT on stand-by.... the answer is full planes and more on the way. Even YYG was sold out over Christmas and holds a steady 55-65% on other days.
I'm not getting in a pissing match with you, but Canjet itself claimed a loss till at least the end of summer 05'. That is why they were let out of the YHM-YOW route without the proper notice.737Mech wrote: It's no mystery I work for CanJet so when people here post stuff like "why would WestJet buy CanJet , they aren't profitable" I would like to know how you would know such things?
"Finally, CanJet states that since commencing its Hamilton scheduled service on April 19, 2004, the weekly load factors have been low even during the peak summer period. Also, CanJet experienced financial loss during the past 12 months and future bookings indicate a continued losing operation this summer. It is thus imperative that CanJet be in a position to discontinue the Hamilton scheduled service with a minimum of delay. CanJet submits "
I'm sure they are doing better now tho..
jj
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Nightshiftzombie
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CanJet reporting a loss is not a true indicator on how well the airline is doing. IMP owns CanJet. IMP owns the hangar that Canjet leases. CanJet's aircraft are leased through IMP. I don't have the figures on how much IMP charges CanJet but I bet Ken knows that reporting huge profits will attract more competition! Reporting a loss or breaking even keeps CanJet under the radar, somewhat! And it goes without saying that it also helps Ken justify the low salaries.
Now this will all change when it's time to go public. All of a sudden CanJet's leases through IMP will be a lot less and profits much greater. Having a private company report profit/loss figures is comparable to a politician’s promises!
Now this will all change when it's time to go public. All of a sudden CanJet's leases through IMP will be a lot less and profits much greater. Having a private company report profit/loss figures is comparable to a politician’s promises!
Last edited by hypoxic on Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Whoa, a little defensive? I hope Canjet is profitable, but I've heard otherwise. I don't claim to be privy to anything, just what I've gotten the sense of from different avenues of information. Doesn't matter though, I do hope you are profitable.
But then to go on an insulting rant against anyone who differs from your opinion, well one more reason to take a pass on having you as one of my co-workers. And are you really that surprised that the people that have the most to gain or lose (WJ employees) might have an opinion?
Anyway, for all the reasons that were listed above, I don't think it makes alot of sense, at least from the WJ side. Do you have any different ideas or opinions, that would make it seem more viable? Or is your only rebuttal to call people names and trash the company you suggested merging with? At any rate, good luck to Canjet.
But then to go on an insulting rant against anyone who differs from your opinion, well one more reason to take a pass on having you as one of my co-workers. And are you really that surprised that the people that have the most to gain or lose (WJ employees) might have an opinion?
Anyway, for all the reasons that were listed above, I don't think it makes alot of sense, at least from the WJ side. Do you have any different ideas or opinions, that would make it seem more viable? Or is your only rebuttal to call people names and trash the company you suggested merging with? At any rate, good luck to Canjet.
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complexintentions
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The way I read the article at that link, it simply states that CanJet was losing money on YHZ-YHM and as a result, made a case for being released from that route without the full notice.
Perhaps you could explain how you extrapolate that to infer that CanJet is losing money as a whole?
While you're at it, perhaps you could explain how negotiating to shed an unprofitable run at the earliest possible opportunity is anything but good business practice?
I agree with 737Mech, there's more than a little holier-than-thou attitude from the WestJet camp, but that's hardly news. I swear there are people in YYC who truly believe they are the only ones righteous enough to run a profitable airline...
Perhaps you could explain how you extrapolate that to infer that CanJet is losing money as a whole?
While you're at it, perhaps you could explain how negotiating to shed an unprofitable run at the earliest possible opportunity is anything but good business practice?
I agree with 737Mech, there's more than a little holier-than-thou attitude from the WestJet camp, but that's hardly news. I swear there are people in YYC who truly believe they are the only ones righteous enough to run a profitable airline...
I’m still waiting for my white male privilege membership card. Must have gotten lost in the mail.
I admitted that what I have heard about CJ's profitability is basically just rumour, but you want me to give you proof? I'll try restating what I already have--I have heard it, but from no verifiable sources. I can't prove it or back it up, and I admitted as such. I also added that maybe your company is profitable, and I hope it is. I don't wish any ill will towards CJ or anyone else.
As for the cost of a -500 vs. an NG, your right, I don't know the details on a stand alone basis. Though I would be surprised if a -500 has a lower CASM than a new -700. Perhaps you can provide some evidence to the contrary, and why WJ wouldn't have attempted to purchase 90 -500's if they have lower CASM. Either way, a different type adds to the cost of the operation as you know, and we just finally ended that problem. There is no doubt in my mind it would be more expensive to bring -500's into the current NG fleet than a bunch of other NG's.
You didn't address any of my other points--merger problems (BIG), the appearance of WJ just swallowing up competitiors, in addition to the lack of fleet commonality. I didn't mean my points to be slagging of CanJet, they seem like a good operation, it just doesn't seem like a good fit to me. Why are you a proponent of this if everything is great over there as it stands now? This feels like an argument that you wanted to get in if everybody didn't agree with you. As soon as points were brought up against your suggestion, you chose to go on an emotional and name calling tirade--if you want to continue discussing points of merit, I'll add my respectful 2 cents, if you just want to blast people for not agreeing with you, then this is where I end.
As for the cost of a -500 vs. an NG, your right, I don't know the details on a stand alone basis. Though I would be surprised if a -500 has a lower CASM than a new -700. Perhaps you can provide some evidence to the contrary, and why WJ wouldn't have attempted to purchase 90 -500's if they have lower CASM. Either way, a different type adds to the cost of the operation as you know, and we just finally ended that problem. There is no doubt in my mind it would be more expensive to bring -500's into the current NG fleet than a bunch of other NG's.
You didn't address any of my other points--merger problems (BIG), the appearance of WJ just swallowing up competitiors, in addition to the lack of fleet commonality. I didn't mean my points to be slagging of CanJet, they seem like a good operation, it just doesn't seem like a good fit to me. Why are you a proponent of this if everything is great over there as it stands now? This feels like an argument that you wanted to get in if everybody didn't agree with you. As soon as points were brought up against your suggestion, you chose to go on an emotional and name calling tirade--if you want to continue discussing points of merit, I'll add my respectful 2 cents, if you just want to blast people for not agreeing with you, then this is where I end.
Fair enough, 737mech.
I see what you are saying concerning the hangar, though I have never heard any talk of a desire for WJ to have a facility like that in YHZ. Fact is, the whole eastern expansion/base thing is really all about YYZ, and I think that is where a bigger facility may occur. Having said that, never say never.
I also am skeptical of running the seperate 'eastjet' idea. I lived through that with Canadian and AC, how they were going to operate Canadian as a separate entity. We all saw how long that lasted.
Anyhow, I've been around this business long enough to know that as soon as you say something absolutely won't happen, it is virtually guaranteed to occur. I will say that from what I know of your operation that I think that culturally and operationally would be the least of the concerns--I don't hear anything bad from that standpoint. In the meantime, I hope everything goes well for everyone there.
Cheers
I see what you are saying concerning the hangar, though I have never heard any talk of a desire for WJ to have a facility like that in YHZ. Fact is, the whole eastern expansion/base thing is really all about YYZ, and I think that is where a bigger facility may occur. Having said that, never say never.
I also am skeptical of running the seperate 'eastjet' idea. I lived through that with Canadian and AC, how they were going to operate Canadian as a separate entity. We all saw how long that lasted.
Anyhow, I've been around this business long enough to know that as soon as you say something absolutely won't happen, it is virtually guaranteed to occur. I will say that from what I know of your operation that I think that culturally and operationally would be the least of the concerns--I don't hear anything bad from that standpoint. In the meantime, I hope everything goes well for everyone there.
Cheers
