ink argument

[therubberjungle]

Hi everyone,

The other day someone asked me about the use of blue ink in an aircraft journey log book. Apparently it is "Transport's Rules", according to the questioner, that require the use of black ink only.

I didn't have a definitive answer. The last time I discussed this with a TC inspector was back in '91, and that was about one of my student's personal logbook. My student like to use ink of any color, including purple, green and brown (didn't know they made brown ink). The TC inspector said it was okay as long as the ink was permanent.

Back to the point: what is the requirement for ink colour in 705 JLBs? Anyone know if there's a CARS reference?

Cheers

[cyyz]

A Logbook can be any color and even in crayon if you want, it's yours. If you use the clouds on your CV it'll be more appropriate that you use the crayons in your logbook.

I haven't seen any CARs on Journey Logs being in black, but all the entries I've seen were in black and black ink is what the OPP, RCMP and TC want you to use for your applications for, Security and Airport Passes. Even when I filled out the form for a rating, they said, "nice, now do it in black."

Secondly, Banks, lawyers etc, would prefer you to use Black so you can photo-copy it and it'll show up 100% clearly, unlike blue or pink.

Professionalism... It's upto you...

[Brewguy]

The CARs do not specify "approved" colours of ink. The individual is just being, well, a bit of an ass. That said, I can understand why an aircraft owner or the management of an oprator may prefer a single ink colour - as they may think it looks better.

Technical Records - General

605.93 (1) Every person who makes an entry in a technical record shall

• (a) make the entry accurately, legibly and in a permanent manner;
  (b) enter the person's name and signature or employee identifier or, where the record is kept as electronic data, enter the person's user code or an equivalent security designation; and
  (c) date the entry.

(2) Where the owner of an aircraft keeps the technical records for the aircraft as electronic data, the owner shall ensure that the electronic data system that is used complies with Section 103.04 and the Aircraft Equipment and Maintenance Standards.

(3) The owner of an aircraft shall ensure that all of the necessary measures are taken to protect the technical records for the aircraft from damage and loss.

(4) Every person who brings into use a new volume of an existing technical record shall make the entries relating to the preceding volume that are necessary to ensure that an unbroken chronological record is maintained.

(5) Subject to subsection (6), where a person alters an entry on a technical record for the purpose of correcting the entry, the person shall do so by striking out the incorrect entry in such a manner that the underlying information remains legible, and inserting the correct entry together with

• (a) the date of the alteration;
  (b) the reason for the alteration, if it is necessary to clarify why the alteration was made; and
  (c) the person's name and signature or employee identifier or, where the record is kept as electronic data, the person's user code or equivalent security designation.

(6) Where a correction referred to in subsection (5) is being made to a technical record that is maintained as electronic data, the correction shall be made in a manner that does not render the original data inaccessible.

I know pilots in the forces who have been made to re-write all of their entries in a new logbook because they used the "wrong colour" ink. But again, this is just one of the piss-off games that superiors play on their subordinates in the military. Not dissimilar to an army NCO ripping the sheets off a soldiers bed and making them remake it.

However, unless someone at TC comes up with an alternate CARs reference to this one, your only responsibility is to ensure that you "make the entry accurately, legibly and in a permanent manner".

[oldtimer]

Official TC documents should be in black ink, except the newer photocopiers will do an acceptable job with blue ink so it is not quite as critical.
Do not use any other colour.
Many CP's request blue ink for company documents such as type exams because they show up black in a photocopy and it is easy to tell the difference between an original and a photocopy. Some companies require a signature in blue just for that reason.
With TC and log books, do not use a rollerball pen. The ink will bleed through and make a big mess on the backside of the page.

[therubberjungle]

Thanks cyyz,

I was asked about this whole ink thing because of some on-going argument. The whole "transport's rules" angle kinda confused me.

I agree totally that black ink photocopies much better than some blue inks (and looks better IMHO), but now I'm wondering if there is an actual legal requirement for the use of black ink.

Cheers

[wait...what did he say?]

I'm a big fan of the Gel pens... the one i got is called a Jetstream... writes big fat letters, but doesnt bleed through. And it writes like a dream...ohhh!

[water wings]

A Logbook can be any color and even in crayon if you want, it's yours. If you use the clouds on your CV it'll be more appropriate that you use the crayons in your logbook.

i made the mistake before i realized one could actually make a living at this game of using sparkly pens in my logbook...now i have to present that 1st logbook for the ATPL!! i guess the fact that i dropped it the water isn't good either, eh?

I have since started a pure "interview" logbook that shall remain pristine in Papermate medium tip blue ink. i like blue. so there.

[golden hawk]

Do you have "the write stuff"?

[Hedley]

I have heard of Transport laying charges because entries in a journey log were pencil, not pen, but I am unaware of any regulation as to the required colour.

I just did a site-specific google search of tc.gc.ca and nothing turned up.

CAR 401.08 says that you must maintain a personal log, but it does not specify that the entries must be in ink, let alone any specific colour.
The corresponding standard, 421.08 does not specify either.

As far as I know, you could make entries in your personal log in any colour of ink, or pencil, or with a crayon, or marker. It is your log, after all.

Long before everyone here was born, it was conventional that "green ink" in a log implied combat time, but that's pretty irrelevant now, since Canadians aren't allowed to fight - we "keep the peace", whatever that means

[chancellor]

Never heard of any requirement other than the employer wanting everything the same color so it didn't look like the dogs breakfast. Had a captain once that would almost freak if he seen you using a black pen, I don't know if it was superstition or the color of the devil. Thought it was kinda weird though.

[Goodwrench]

I seem to remember something from back in my early days regarding F.A.A. requiring the use of black ink in any logbook. As far as Transport Canada, I only remember red ink being not acceptable.

[Hedley]

These days, red means unserviceable, like a red parts tag. I have seen parts spray-painted red to indicate u/s. I would not use red in a logbook.

Green ink references for combat time in pilot's personal logbooks:

http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04/greeninkwp_1.htm

Green Ink in your log book is combat time

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/pr ... ran=176489

The air wing saw considerable combat action. Potts, making her first cruise, used ``a lot of green ink'' in her logbook that recorded details of missions flown over Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://dukecunningham.org/phorum/read.p ... =894&t=894

http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1531

I wouldn't use green ink, either, in a logbook but that's just me.

Personally, I wouldn't use a mixture of rainbow-coloured ink in a logbook. I try to use only blue, so that when someone photocopies something, it's obvious which is the original. Photocopiers these days have no problem with blue ink.

[ahramin]

We are talking about your personal log book here. You can use any ink you want.

But as many are saying going for an interview with blue black and purple entries might not be a good thing. When i was keeping paper books it was all black ink.

[Brewguy]

The other day someone asked me about the use of blue ink in an aircraft journey log book. Apparently it is "Transport's Rules", according to the questioner, that require the use of black ink only.

Actually, the original question was about aircraft journey logs, not personal logs. However, when it comes to ink colour - the answer is the same. As indicated in my earlier post, when it comes to Technical Records CAR 605.93 only requires the entry to be accurate, legibly and in a permanent manner. Purple, green, red, orange - as long as it's permenent.

However I personally agree with what a lot of people have said here, that sticking with a single colour is more professional looking. As for photocopying, most darker colours of ink (including red) will show up quite well on a modern digital copier.

I personally use blue - and even try to stick with the same pen so that all of the shades of blue are the same. Maybe a bit over the top, eh?

[TG]

I had the same gentle argument with one TC inspector in mid 90's.
It was up to us but he recommended to fill the aircraf's logbook with "blue" ink.
And when I asked why, his only answer was:

"You can see the difference between entries and black lines of the logbook"

I guess he was reffering the possiblility of having someone writting too wide and overlapping lines.

[Hedley]

I personally use blue

Me too. The reason why, is that around 10 years, ago, when I was an Authorized Person at an FTU, I had to make "certified true copies" of stuff like birth certificates.

So, I would photocopy the birth certificate (or whatever) and sign the photocopy in BLUE ink as a "certified true copy" so that if someone photocopied the "certified true copy" it obviously a "non-certified" copy because my signature was in BLACK, and I never used black pens, only blue pens.

I know, over the top, too These days, someone can colour-photocopy, but at least you've raised the bar a teeny bit.

P.S. I didn't know people frowned upon using blue inks in logbooks. Goes to show, you learn something every day.

[Driving Rain]

I personally use blue

P.S. I didn't know people frowned upon using blue inks in logbooks. Goes to show, you learn something every day.

I know people who've had shit fits over whether the toilet paper comes off the back of the roll or off the front.
Lets face it officious anal retentive types gravitate towards the government jobs like TC. If the use of blue or black ink was "real rule" it would say so

[neophyte]

Too funny, although the post was serious in nature.

I have witnessed pilots throw out every blue pen in site so that the journey logs get completed with the remaining black pens. Good news for Staples.

Neo

[Flybabe]

I've seen journey logs in black and blue, don't think it matters.

I like black - BIC Roller Ball, fine tip. Again personal preference!

[cyyz]

I've seen journey logs in black and blue, don't think it matters.

It doesn't. Don't think(pretty sure, unless you're Cat or Hedley) you'll get ramped and get your OC pulled for having it in multi colours...

But some people, are, well, anal.