Trouble in Leaf Land...

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:50 pm

From Sportsnet.ca

Sundin not happy in T.O.?
January 24 @ 9:37 AM
With the Maple Leafs slumping to a six-game losing skid, it's no surprise that whispers of change are surrounding the club. What does come as a shock is that captain Mats Sundin is one of the names mentioned for a possible move out of Toronto. While the Leafs captain has a no-trade clause in his contract and isn't going to ask to be dealt before the March 9 deadline, the Toronto Sun says don't rule out the possibility of the 34-year-old being moved.
Making $6.8 million US this season and $7 million US next, all you have to do is look at Sundin's linemates -- Nik Antropov and Alexei Ponikarovsky -- last night against the Senators to realize that something is wrong.
Sources say Sundin isn't happy in Toronto, but, at the same time, he's not the kind of guy who is going to march into GM John Ferguson Jr.'s office and demand a trade.
Discuss it here

Nightshiftzombie · Post by **Nightshiftzombie** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:22 am

Does anyone have that much cap room left?

Magnanimous · Post by **Magnanimous** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:26 am

Would anyone want that much cap room left?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:21 am

Its not a question of just cap room, its also the fact that he never really was worth as much as the Leafs insisted on paying him. Even with the salary roll back this season under the new CBA, #13 should not be making anywhere near $6 to $7 million. I say good riddance, dump him, Belfour, and maybe a decent Marlie to Florida for Roberto Luongo.

Or hey, make it a three-team deal and shore up the defence. Or try and lure both Luongo and Bouwmeester from the Panthers.

Edit: and while we're at it, get rid of Quinn. Guy has been around long enough, without some decent results. 4 or 5 100-pt seasons, and we made the Conference finals once? And were beaten by CAROLINA! Gimme a break.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:29 am

Sundin would be hard to move. He's making too much and the only way to trade him would be to absorb so much of his contract it wouldn't be worth it. Besides, he's clutch, IF they make the playoffs they'll need him.
Pat Quinn shouldn't be fired. If anyone needs to go it's Ferguson. The only good move the guy made was getting Leetch. Then he let him go and signed a bunch of liabilities. So far he's shown he's totally inept at his job. If he can make some major moves before the deadline that are actually smart instead of trading for injured, used-up players that are 35+, maybe he can keep his job.
The Leaf's troubles have nothing to do with Sundin or Quinn and everything to do with having assembled a pathetic team that until now, has been punching above their weight class all season. What they really need is DEFENCE! When McCabe is out and Aki Berg is your most consistently performing defenceman, you know you have a problem on the blue line (Kaberle has been shit this year, trade that useless pussy for someone hard.)

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:33 am

Sundin would be hard to move. He's making too much and the only way to trade him would be to absorb so much of his contract it wouldn't be worth it. Besides, he's clutch, IF they make the playoffs they'll need him.
Pat Quinn shouldn't be fired. If anyone needs to go it's Ferguson. The only good move the guy made was getting Leetch. Then he let him go and signed a bunch of liabilities. So far he's shown he's totally inept at his job. If he can make some major moves before the deadline that are actually smart instead of trading for injured, used-up players that are 35+, maybe he can keep his job.
The Leaf's troubles have nothing to do with Sundin or Quinn and everything to do with having assembled a pathetic team that until now, has been punching above their weight class all season. What they really need is DEFENCE! When McCabe is out and Aki Berg is your most consistently performing defenceman, you know you have a problem on the blue line (Kaberle has been shit this year, trade that useless pussy for someone hard.)

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:43 am

Damper,

I agree. Fergie is the next thing to useless. Quinn should go back to the GM position, get Paul Maurice from the Marlies in as coach, move Belfore, maybe Sundin, throw Nik Antropov in a dumpster somewhere, and bring in some talent UNDER the age of 30...

I honestly think the Leaf Mngt TRIES to lose sometimes...

STL

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:10 am

Screw you all.. Get rid of Domi and then come back here and talk about taking out the recycling....

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:29 pm

I agree with that, Domi is done. He's too old and soft now and puts up even fewer points than before. As much as I like him, he's not contributing in any way anymore.
The Leafs used to be able to play a grinding physical game to win. Now they're such a bunch of pansies it's the other teams that are taking it to them. Sure, you can play a non-physical brand of hockey and do OK in the regular season if you have some finesse, but they don't have that either.
They need to shit-can everyone except the younger talent like McCabe, Steen, Stajan and Wellwood and maybe a couple old dogs like Sundin and Tucker for the sentimental value. If they don't make some big moves before the next season, they're gonna be in complete disarray next year.

Nightshiftzombie · Post by **Nightshiftzombie** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:26 am

they're gonna be in complete disarray next year.

And the universe continues to unfold as it should.

flynbutcher · Post by **flynbutcher** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:22 am

I have't seen Domi win a fight all year. As for the Leafs, some things will never change, I predict 11th in the conference, and wont make the playoffs for the next 4-5 years. Gotta love it

EI-EIO · Post by **EI-EIO** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:52 pm

Babcock is gone from the cRaptors but the next head to be chopped should be Peddie's.

The problem is not scoring - it's defending. Tellqvist and Belfour are getting murdered because there's no cover.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:33 am

I think last night's debacle at the hands of the Sabres proved that its not just defence. Belfour was letting in softies from everywhere on the ice.

Should have retired before the lockout ended, go out on a high-note. Instead, he'll join those who stayed one season too long, and were remebered more for their final thud, than their years of greatness.

Go Tellqvist.

Get lost Quinn.

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:07 pm

I Love the Leafs, but what that F#$K. This is a joke whats going on now.

Hate to say it though, i saw all this happening at the beggining of the year, when every team was chasing players for there teams, the leafs chased after Eric Lindros, now you have got to be frickin kidding me, He has done ok this year, but hes done his career.

And they lost so much, like mogilny, and leech. 2 strong players they let go, I don't get it, you want to get rid of some guys. heres my list to begin.

1) Nic Antropov, the biggest joke of the team
2) Tie Domi, I love the guy but as said before, to old now
3) Ed Belfour, there goaltendin has never really been a problem, just think he is over due now
4) J ferguson, don't need to say why? biggest joke in the league next to betman
5) Eric Lindros, Washed up and than some

However I look at it this way,
The leafs are the #1 team in the league as per profit, everygame is sold out, they sell the most merchandise. So unless this all stops than they don't need to win, they can have the high expense washed up guys cause they can afford to due to this. (With the salary cap in place I don't know if all this matters now though)
When this stops however they'll have to due a makeover and start to frickin win for once.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:25 pm

It'll never stop. The Leaf's nation is the only example of a completely self-sustaining system. They will always be the most profitable team in the league and the salary cap will only enlarge their profits. Now they'll have an extra $30-40 million a year in their pockets. One of the perks of being in the most insanely hockey-addicted market on the planet. They rival the New York Yankees as the greatest sports franchise in the history of organized sport. I cheer for the Flames now since their hockey is so much better and more exciting, but still must admit, once a Leaf's fan, always a Leaf's fan. The annual heartbreak is getting to me though.

PS-Some more names for that list of yours: Kaberle, Klee, Berg, Khavanov, Kilger, Wilm, Ponikarovsky.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:06 pm

Players the Leafs need to keep:

1 - Alexander Steen
2 - Matt Stajan
3 - Alexei Ponikarovsky
4 - Michael Tellqvist (one of the best backups in the league, and maybe should be given more of a shot....)
5 - Tomas Kaberle
6 - Bryan McCabe
*** 5 & 6 are one of the top offensive defence pairings in the league
7 - Kyle Wellwood
8 - Staffan Kronwall - another good rookie defenceman with potential
9 - Mats Sundin (need the playoff experience, plus, as much as he has been underperforming, he is still a great leader)

Players to Promote from the Marlies:
1 - Jon Pohl
2 - Bates Battaglia
3 - Mariusz Czerkawski - I'm sure with ICE TIME (damn you Quinn), he'd be among the Leafs top scorers.

Players to definitely dump:

1 - Aki Berg
2 - Wade Belak
*** - The two above make up the WORST defensive set in the entire NHL. Just watch when they get on the ice, its like two possums caught on the 401.
3 - Ed Belfour - either let him retire, or trade him while he has some "playoff potential" left.
4 - Clarke Wilm

The biggest thing that is wrong with the Leafs is that for the last 4 NHL seasons, at the trade deadline, they would go out and try to do a "one-time" fix and bring in some older veterans for the playoff run. And obviously it hasn't worked. What do they give up in the process? Travis Green, Steve Sullivan, Mike Johnson-type players. Players who haven't yet reached their prime and are now doing so with their new teams. Look at Sullivan with the Predators, one of their top-tier players.

Look at the Senators, other than a few pieces of the puzzle, most of their best players now were either signed when young, or drafted right from the get-go. They almost never trade away a prospect.

Who's at the top looking down at the Leafs?

The Leafs are where good players go for one last kick at the can...they always keep older guys one season too long so that they end up with either a retirement and nothing to show for it, or a half-talent loser in a trade.

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:46 pm

Players the Leafs need to keep:

1 - Alexander Steen
2 - Matt Stajan
3 - Alexei Ponikarovsky NO
4 - Michael Tellqvist (one of the best backups in the league, and maybe should be given more of a shot....)
5 - Tomas Kaberle
6 - Bryan McCabe
*** 5 & 6 are one of the top offensive defence pairings in the league
7 - Kyle Wellwood
8 - Staffan Kronwall - another good rookie defenceman with potential
9 - Mats Sundin (need the playoff experience, plus, as much as he has been underperforming, he is still a great leader)

Players to Promote from the Marlies:
1 - Jon Pohl
2 - Bates Battaglia
3 - Mariusz Czerkawski - I'm sure with ICE TIME (damn you Quinn), he'd be among the Leafs top scorers. NO

Players to definitely dump:

1 - Aki Berg
2 - Wade Belak
*** - The two above make up the WORST defensive set in the entire NHL. Just watch when they get on the ice, its like two possums caught on the 401.
3 - Ed Belfour - either let him retire, or trade him while he has some "playoff potential" left.
4 - Clarke Wilm NO

I agree with the rest. We need a shake-up in a large way.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:04 pm

It's time to trade Kaberle. Everybody says he's valuable because he's mobile and a slick passer. Well, guess what? That's not what the Leaf's need, they need a big, mean shutdown d-man and Kaberle is certainly not that. His physical play is on par with a 14 year old boy. He's not an offensive player in and of himself, he just was lucky enough to be paired with McCabe and found that passing the puck into his wheelhouse put up plenty of points. Has Kaberle been putting up points with Klee? No, they both suck, whereas McCabe will put up points with whoever he plays with AND he hits and can shut most forwards down. Kaberle used to have smart playmaking and passing to rely on, but lately that's been slipping. You could see him starting to struggle in the last season and it's only getting worse. He's been making some real bonehead plays with the puck lately and with Belfour sucking as bad as he is, you can't afford to do that. That being said, Kaberle would still be valuable to some clubs so why not trade him before teams catch on that he's on his way down. Trade him for a bigger stronger defenceman with less flash and more physicality.

Nightshiftzombie · Post by **Nightshiftzombie** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:02 am

They rival the New York Yankees as the greatest sports franchise in the history of organized sport.

Except for the winning part right?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:11 am

shimmydampner wrote:It's time to trade Kaberle. Everybody says he's valuable because he's mobile and a slick passer. Well, guess what? That's not what the Leaf's need, they need a big, mean shutdown d-man and Kaberle is certainly not that.

But why not keep Kaberle and McCabe, have an offensive pair (or split them up with defensive-minded defencemen).

The Leafs have 4 to 6 other defencemen (including the Marlies) that are much worse than Kaberle. Get rid of them first.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:55 am

Oh sure, ALL their other defencemen are worse than Kaberle. But in my humble opinion, he's not the offensive player everyone thinks he is, he just benefits from being paired with McCabe. All the offence from the blue line comes from McCabe. All he needs is someone who can slide him a one-timer pass. Like I said, how's Kaberle doing with Klee now that McCabe is injured? Not so hot.
Other than McCabe, Kaberle obviously the defenceman they would get the most value for, so why not deal him now while he's got value left in him? Pick up someone more phsyical and who can pass the puck to their right?

abc xyz · Post by **abc xyz** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:47 am

http://www.canadiancartoonists.com/Members/Mou/mou3.jpg

LH · Post by LH » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:08 am

Don't want to echo Don Cherry, but if the Leafs spent more of the scouting time and resources in THIS country, maybe they'd find the players they so desparately need. THAT department is the pointy-end of the spear and so start there. If you want to "play Canadian style" hockey, then look in your own back yard FIRST before you buy a ticket to Europe.

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:53 pm

THEY WON, THEY WON, holy shit.
I hope they can maybe win one more before the season is out

Beechball · Post by **Beechball** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:23 am

I know it's the Leafs but if you missed the title you guys could've been discussing the habs!
Everybody's crying in their beer for poor Jose!!! He is and always will be AN OVERPAID, AVERAGE (at best) GOALIE!!! TRADE HIM ALREADY!
Luongo now PLLEEAASSEE!!!!!