Sonic Blue pilots - stand up for yourselves!

[Cat Driver]

"
Cat, I can't speak for CID obviously, but hell, if the shoes fit, put 'em on. If not... let it go man. This doesn't seem the time or place for your personal beefs about CID to be aired. "

Mitch, this has nothing to do with my personal beef with CID it is about facts.

I have always tried to focus on the fact that there is a systemic culture of cronyism within the top level of Transport Canada management that has as a top priority the need to protect their own regardless of what their own do.

I would submit to the jury here ( the aviation industry ) that if my allegations are indeed factual nothing will change unless there is a change at the top level of TCCA management.

Without fixing the underlying problem everything else posted here is word salading with no hope of change possible.


CID could very well be a shill working for TC with the express task of deflecting suspision of moral corruption at the top levels of TC.

My statements on this subject is backed up with documentation that has been proven to be factual by a higher level of TC than the level of TCCA.

Cat

[CID]

CID, are you by any chance including me in this statement?

What does it matter? No matter what the answer, it will feed your paranoia.

[Coast-dog]

The same goes for the ex NavAir/Westex/Timberline/Waglisla... employees who can explain what life is/was like starting out.

Ok, knock it off about NavAir - they cleaned up their act over the last few years...maybe stuff slid recently, but for some time there you couldn't fault the maintenance...so stuff it...[/i]

[scabber]

any sonic blue pilots, or pilots in general who are concerned with the operation of low end shady operations should email ...

lgrindlay@png.canwest.com

she is a reporter, and I am sure she will bring things to light!

[Cat Driver]

" Quote:
CID, are you by any chance including me in this statement?


What does it matter? No matter what the answer, it will feed your paranoia."

For theose of you with the ability to think it is a matter of deciding if I am credible or paranoid.

It is for each of you to decide personally.

. .

[CID]

For theose of you with the ability to think it is a matter of deciding if I am credible or paranoid.

It is for each of you to decide personally.

Thank you Cat, for stating the obvious. I can now rest comfortably tonight in the knowledge that nobody will think that they must agree with me. Keep up the fabulous work.

[snaproll20]

Anonymous1

Be careful what you wish for regarding any inspector being able to shut down a company.

Although 99% of the folk at TC are decent honest folk, there are one or two totally sociopathic individuals there who would love to wield that right.

Supposedly, TC has an oversight function which disallows personal vendettas. However, once the jerk has made the action, the ranks close and you will face an army of lawyers to get justice.

Also, if 'Government person A' tells 'Government person B' that you are a bad dude and they act on it, you cannot get proof of who said what from the Freedom of Information Act because as soon as you run into a "third Party", you get stonewalled and cannot get the information.

So, you can be lied about, slandered and punished without getting to the truth of what happened.

Beware!

[nite_owl]

Once upon a time there was a company in Grande Prairie, Alberta. Wapiti... This one goes back about 20 years. A friend of mine was flying. He killed the NDP leader Grant Notley. It made headlines, and in the lawsuits that followed TC was sued, the company shut down and changes in the way things were done back then were brought about.

There was a helicopter crash a day or two later that killed 6. It recieved little or no recognition. Those who perished weren't famous and their loss was of no consequence to the rest of society outside their families.

TC hasn't changed. The rules have, but with each new TC regime, the past is forgotten and we keep repeating history. Operators today cut the same corners they were cutting back then. Ask yourself why?

Look at your resumes and see how many of the companies in your past still exist. The only one around on mine is my current employer. Okay I've been there a while, but most of these entry level companies only exist for a short while before they run out of capital or get shut down while trying to go broke. How many start ups never get through their first year?

This industry needs an enema!!!

[nite_owl]

Once upon a time there was a company in Grande Prairie, Alberta. Wapiti... This one goes back about 20 years. A friend of mine was flying. He killed the NDP leader Grant Notley. It made headlines, and in the lawsuits that followed TC was sued, the company shut down and changes in the way things were done back then were brought about.

There was a helicopter crash a day or two later that killed 6. It recieved little or no recognition. Those who perished weren't famous and their loss was of no consequence to the rest of society outside their families.

TC hasn't changed. The rules have, but with each new TC regime, the past is forgotten and we keep repeating history. Operators today cut the same corners they were cutting back then. Ask yourself why?

Look at your resumes and see how many of the companies in your past still exist. The only one around on mine is my current employer. Okay I've been there a while, but most of these entry level companies only exist for a short while before they run out of capital or get shut down while trying to go broke. How many start ups never get through their first year?

This industry needs an enema!!!

[Cat Driver]

" This industry needs an enema!!! "

Exactly and the enema must be inserted in the office of the DGCA for it to work.

Cat

[marktheone]

Cat and CID am I speaking in tongues here or something? TC would not be an issue if there was money in this business. If there was a decent return the airplanes would be fixed and training would be done. It's that simple.

We're no different than gravel trucks in the sky. Years ago the trucking was good and there was money. At that time trucks weren't going down hills without brakes killing people. Now no money and presto, trucks crashing down hills. Not too hard to see if you ask me.

[CID]

Cat and CID am I speaking in tongues here or something? TC would not be an issue if there was money in this business. If there was a decent return the airplanes would be fixed and training would be done. It's that simple.

Marktheone, that's an observation, not a solution. There is no question that there needs to be more money. But how?

The most prominent airline in the country (Air Canada) is just as much to blame as anyone. They made selling seats for below cost an art form. They killed off many airlines before they finally raised the gun to their own heads and still came back smelling sweet as a rose.

So what happened? Deregulation. Remember what I said about being careful what you ask for? It was the airlines and the public at large that demanded deregulation and it resulted in was a drastic decrease in the price of a ticket.

In order to compete these days in Canada and the US for that matter, you have to offer bargain basement prices and operate bargain basement airplanes.

I for one, believe that we need to bring back regulation to a degree. If we don't the only way that prices will stabilize is through collusion. Not only is that illegal, but it will result in higher prices not lower.

Deregulation isn't coming back in any form, any time soon so don't hold your breath. Air Canada will continue to hammer Westjet with their new found vigor (and deep pockets) and 703 operators will continue to do what they do best which is deceive the flying public into flying unsafe airplanes driven by young pilots making less than minimum wage.

[Cat Driver]

" Cat and CID am I speaking in tongues here or something? TC would not be an issue if there was money in this business. If there was a decent return the airplanes would be fixed and training would be done. It's that simple. "

Marktheone:

CID has hit on one of the driving factors that has brought about the mess that aviation is in today...deregulation.

What I have not been able to get across to some of you is I am a firm beliver in enforcing rules and regulations as safety guidelines in the aviation industry.

Where I am at odds with the regulator is who is in charge of the regulator and how commercial aviation is regulated.

To try and put most of the onus on the pilots for regulating the industry is not the answer.

Even though a lot of pilots break the rules / regulations for fear of losing their jobs, the breaking of these regulations should not result in the penalty being the death sentence.

Lets make a simple comparison between two arms of government enforcement, TC and the RCMP.

Two days ago when I was driving to the airport there were four police cruisers actively involved in a speed trap that is perfect for catching speeders, yet several blocks away is the drug dealing section of town with no visiable police presence.

When TC uses their limited assets to man ramp checks in easy hunting areas to lay chicken shit charges against the same poor souls who are breaking the law to hold their jobs, do you not see a connection in missuse of assets?

Deregulation is and has been a fact for years, do we also have to accept poor regulation?

Now back to Sonic Blue.

Cat

[Axial Flow]

I like the analogy of the RCMP/TC it seems to sum up the situation well. It seems as though its much easier to make your case on a simple speeding ticket wheras making your case to put someone away for trafficking cocaine and making them spend 5 years in prison. It would be like ramping pilots and nailing them for their infractions then trying to shut down an entire company based on their practices. That is unless your President picks the wrong fight and takes the whole company down and leaves you with outstanding bond payments....moving on.



I never knew Ed personally although I had helped him load RXZ a few times during the summer for Chilko lake and Tofino charters. Having flown the Caravan I can just imagine the situation he faced and which I always dreaded in the back of my mind. Sonic Blue will get what it deserves and its too bad it takes loss of life (again) for this to happen.

May heaven bring you blue skys, tailwinds, and lots of cigarettes

[scabber]

As posted previously..... do something about it people...




Any sonic blue pilots, or pilots in general who are concerned with the operation of low end shady operations should email ...

lgrindlay@png.canwest.com

she is a reporter, and I am sure she will bring things to light!

[twotter]

CID Cat and others, this is not the time to butt heads. It's the time for action and solidarity amongst us. It's time that we all stuck together and got the story out about the dark side of this industry. Slimeball owners who are just there to maximise profit at the expense of their employees safety should be eradicated. Labour Canada is at fault here too for allowing this to happen over and over again.. Let's just look at the last 20 years around YVR with stellar companies like Skylink, Aquila etc, and now our latest offering..

For anyone interested, there is another lady who would love to hear of your experiences with these kinds of companies.
Paisley_Woodward@cbc.ca
It's time to get this out in the open and let the public know that when the buy a cheap ticket, they get what they paid for..

Cheers all and I hope we can make a difference..
Dale

[altiplano]

-

[Buster]

It's time to get this out in the open and let the public know that when the buy a cheap ticket, they get what they paid for...

Febuary 8, 2006 WestJet YVR-YYZ $142.00 before taxs. Air Canada YVR-YYC $142.00 before taxs.
Are you saying these airlines are unsafe because of the cheap tickets?

Just wondering

At $29.60 per seat/per hour (say 5hrs) Are they Stupid or unsafe?

Me thinks another bankrupt airline in about 3-5 years.

I understand your point though, people do need to make a change in this industry, but I don't think the blame goes to cheap tickets. De-regulation is to blame and every Tom, Dick and Harry trying to make a quick buck on the backs and LIVEs of its employees. Some has to go to the employees for flying the crap and putting up with the crap they're shovelled, and of course TC by turning that blind eye. I'm sure many people remember Skylink. Histroy just repeating itself again with Sonic...so sad. This story is nothing new guys/girls!!!
Like someone posted earlier about the companies that he worked for are all gone. I'm in the same boat. Over 20 years in this buisness and every company I've worked for is GONE!, and that includes 2 airlines. Luckily I work for another now, but I'm sure it will be gone before I. There is just no stability in this industry anymore, and that includes Big Red.

Cheers
Buster

[CID]

Febuary 8, 2006 WestJet YVR-YYZ $142.00 before taxs. Air Canada YVR-YYC $142.00 before taxs.
Are you saying these airlines are unsafe because of the cheap tickets?

If you are selling seats for below cost, you need to cut somewhere else. Air Canada typically lays it on their creditors. Westjet controls expenses in other ways like using non-union labour.

At the other extreme, its tough for a 703 operator to charge more for a flight from Tofino to Vancouver than Air Canada charges for a flight from Vancouver to Toronto. The absense of fare and route regulation, it gets quite cut-throat.

Some guy who has all his money sunk into his little 703 airline, might be inclined to cut corners in relatively unsafe ways.

[sky's the limit]

Ok, knock it off about NavAir - they cleaned up their act over the last few years...maybe stuff slid recently, but for some time there you couldn't fault the maintenance...so stuff it...[/i]

That's not good enough Coast. What, 5 good years out of 15? Doesn't cut the mustard I'm affraid. Nav Air's work conditions, planes, pay etc have been rotten for a long long time.

STL

[CAL]

WestJet structure reminds me of a big pyramid scheme where if you got in early you did well...and its your job to lure young qualified people in to keep buying into your scheme 'stock options vs. salary' to help keep your company growing.

[Dust Devil]

Even if no Regency pilots are going to stick up for themselves it looks like Ed Huggett's dad is.

Just on the news he was interviewed describing the whole "culture" of work for free and get your hours however you have to and the tough road it is for some pilots at some companies. He says he's gone to HRDC/Labour Board asking them to look into the practice and make sure all f/o's from the past 3-5 years who weren't paid get compensated. Not sure if it will happen but good on him. Looks like it might be the nail for Regency...

If places like Regency are no longer around where are junior pilots gonna get their start? I'm not justifying the way things are run there but I can see this could create a problem for newer pilots.

I'm also wondering how many guys does Regency and Navair employ? Or did employ I guess?

[Disco Stu]

If places like Regency are no longer around where are junior pilots gonna get their start? I'm not justifying the way things are run there but I can see this could create a problem for newer pilots.

Are you kidding me?

Really?

How about young pilots getting their start at companies that are going to PAY them to do their job.

There are LOTS of them from coast to coast.

[Brewguy]

If places like Regency are no longer around where are junior pilots gonna get their start? I'm not justifying the way things are run there but I can see this could create a problem for newer pilots.

Are you kidding me?

Really?

How about young pilots getting their start at companies that are going to PAY them to do their job.

There are LOTS of them from coast to coast.

Disco Stu: please "Do Not Feed the Troll"
... that post of Dust Devil's isn't worth a reply.

[r22captain]

I got my start without paying a dime out of my pocket. I was able to afford a new house and car in my first year before I was even flying. Type rating paid for. No bond. Yes I am sure I am one of the few lucky ones to get on with a better company, but still shows a level at which the industry should be at.

Yes I know this guy is probably trolling but it's this mentality that justifies the buisness practices of so many shady operators. "All the lowtimers are desperate so lets screw them"....and a good number of desperate guys bite the bait.