Sonic Blue pilots - stand up for yourselves!

CID · Post by **CID** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:02 pm

Cat,

What forums do STC and Airplay post on? I couldn't find anything on a google search.

Dust Devil · Post by **Dust Devil** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:17 pm

If CID can't find it on google then it does not exist

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:43 pm

" I prefer my where-abouts remain anonymous and I don't know any STC or Airplay, but if you don't like them, my guess is that they figured you out too. "

And therein CID lies the difference between you and me, I am comfortable with who I am and have no problem with the whole world reading what I post. Because I strive to at least be honest in my thoughts and any statements that I make.

Non of us are flawless and we all make mistakes, if I am wrong and realiaze that I was I will apoligize and go on with life...

But I'm fairly sure most here have already figured me out....

Cat

Juice's Nightmare · Post by **Juice's Nightmare** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:34 pm

Cat wrote:

Your industry in Canada is pathetic, and you are a willing victim by being part of it.

It is a pathetic situation wherein a federal regulator can not enforce federal law.

I am ashamed to admit I am a Canadian when I see how disfunctional aviation is under it's present regulatory management.

However may I remind everyone of you that these problems within the Canadian aviation industry do not have any affect on my career, because I no longer work in the industry in Canada.

In other words I'm just as inefective as the rest of you to find a solution to " Y O U R " problems.

Cat Driver:
I don't deny you have the envy of many a pilot and non-pilot alike with being blessed to have the luck of being in a great profession that few ever get to experience.
However reading your posts over the last while makes me wonder if you are not just a grumpy old man?
You run the government, the protectors of the country(RCMP), pilots and just about anyone else that gets in your way down if it's not your party line.
You obviously are ashamed of the country, it's rule makers and protectors.
Your jump ship to make all this fantastic cash the world across and what exactly are you teaching all the young and impressionable ladies and gentlemen that read this forum????
I think that you have become over time the proverbial rotten pickle at the bottom of the barrel.
I for one am proud of Canada, it's protectors and its rule makers. There are the odd bad ones but that is humanity and that is the way it will always be. You have to call it a day and get on with it.
I hope in sincerity that you give your head a shake and either get off the podium proclaiming the end of the world is coming or start preaching something positive the young folks can build on.
You have a choice to either go down with a smile or you know the alternative. YOUR CHOICE......

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:51 pm

Well Juice you are entiteled to your opinion and I have no problem with that, however you are asuming a lot with some of your comments.

Why would I be a grumpy old man just because I express my opinion on how aviation has deteriorated to the point that these kids will never have the opportunities that I worked under and experienced?

My comparison of the RCMP manning speed traps with four cruisers is not a slam on the RCMP members as they are only doing what their superiors dictate they must do. The same holds true for the TC inspectors in how they regulate, they are only carrying out the dictates of their superiors.

I am of the opinion that these limited resourses could be put to better use than window dressing enforcement while ignoring the bigger problems that are wreaking havoc on the population.

Yes, I am ashamed of a system that has seemingly lost the focus on real problems and in far to many cases waste time, money and resources on protecting a few within their ranks who should be gotten rid of.

I am not the only one in this industry to have been unlawfully put out of business even though I did nothing wrong or in contrevention of law.

I resent your suggestion that I " Jumped ship " to make fantastic cash the world across, what would you suggest I should have done after TC left me with no business and all my savings for my retirement job gone, go on welfare?

What I am trying to teach the younger generation is that when there is something really wrong with the system you should identify where the problem lies.

In the case of Transport Canada Civil Aviation the fault lies at the top with those who allow this degrading of the system to continue.

Maybe you should watch TV here on the west coast and read what the news media are having to say about the lack of oversite by the regulator to ensure the safety of the travelling public, not to mention the slave wages and in some cases no wages being payed to these young ladies and gentlemen you so casually accuse me of missleading.

And as to this...

" I think that you have become over time the proverbial rotten pickle at the bottom of the barrel. "

I will ignore such a unfounded comment because you obviously do not know me.

You of course have every right to be a proud Canadian, but for me I am not satisfied with ignoring as you describe it " the odd bad ones." that kind of head buried in the sand attitude would have to also condone the odd murderer, child molester, drug dealer and so on, just because that is the way it will always be.

This truly escapes me, what are you babbling on about?

"You have a choice to either go down with a smile or you know the alternative. YOUR CHOICE......"

Are you councelling me to smile while people are dying in an industry that allows young pilots to be intimidated into flying illegally?

Cat

Buster · Post by **Buster** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:16 am

Cat Driver wrote: You of course have every right to be a proud Canadian, but for me I am not satisfied with ignoring as you describe it " the odd bad ones." that kind of head buried in the sand attitude would have to also condone the odd murderer, child molester, drug dealer and so on, just because that is the way it will always be.

99.9% of the population bury thier heads in the sand. It's that 0.1% that actually get off thier ass. Put thier thoughts and ideas to something positive, make change and a difference in the industry, counrty and world or what have you. All I see in this thread are bunch of ideas on how things should be, and the way the industry should be changed. Will any of you do it? Not Likely!!!
People tend to ridicule, reject, ignore and try to make people believe you're grumpy, crazy, unpatriotic and your statements are not credible. Just because you stand up for what you believe is wrong.
You may not agree in what Cat posts, but at least he fights for what he believes in, and ya he looks for support. Is that not what you are supposed to do? if you're fighting for change. He may be the only 0.1% in this forum that actual does something about it.

What A BS post "Juice" you're the one who should give your head a good shake, or maybe just call it a day and get on with it.

Buster

wsguy · Post by **wsguy** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:48 am

[b]JOE BOY
Rank 0

Joe Boy:

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 13
Location: up north
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:42 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AND IF YOU BROUGHT IN LABOUR CANADA WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE GUY THAT WORKS THE BUSH FOR 6 MONTHS VS A GUY WORKING AS CAPTAIN ON A HO FOR 12 MONTHS FOR COMPANY X HOW WOULD YOU DIFFERENTIATE THE PAY.
[b

I think you are mis-reading what I am saying. I am not suggesting that the whole industry pay scales should be set by Labour Canada. However I think having a reasonable minimum salary for the profession would be helpful.

Some of these guys are not even getting duty time at Minimum Wage.

You would get that flippin burgers at MacDonalds. Is any commercial pilot holder worth at least minimum wage?

Paying for PPC's .... Cash Training Loans.... Do you see a problem here with that?

Sorry, but I don't quite get the connection between the 12 month HO captain vs. the Bush guy as you mention in your post.

Personally I think both jobs are worth more than minimum wage... but at least if the poor buggers got at the very least minimum wage for duty time by law... the operators would have to carry that cost of operation to the Cargo Contracts.

Perhaps a more appropriate salary might be to pay the HO guy what the cargo company would pay a 5 ton truck delivery driver. I think a cargo pilot would be worth at least what a cargo van driver gets. I don't know what they get paid.... but I will bet it is more than Minimum Wage at a fast food restaurant!

Does this make sense to anyone?

CID · Post by **CID** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:14 am

What I am trying to teach the younger generation is that when there is something really wrong with the system you should identify where the problem lies.

Yes. And then jump ship.

I am not the only one in this industry to have been unlawfully put out of business even though I did nothing wrong or in contrevention of law.

I think I heard the Skyward people say the same thing. No doubt we'll hear this from the owners of the recent 208 that crashed.

So what is it? Is TC too lenient or are they too hard nosed? Let's try to make up our minds.

Maybe you should watch TV here on the west coast and read what the news media are having to say about the lack of oversite by the regulator to ensure the safety of the travelling public, not to mention the slave wages and in some cases no wages being payed to these young ladies and gentlemen you so casually accuse me of missleading.

So what is the context of the statements? "TC should have shut these guys down long ago"? I have to wonder if those are the same people who say things like "When ramped I would advise you to produce the documents required by law and refuse to discuss anything with them period."

Are you councelling me to smile while people are dying in an industry that allows young pilots to be intimidated into flying illegally?

Smile? Hell you condone the practice. You're on record with such great statments as:

We must not bury our heads in the sand with comments such as if we abide by the CAR's and the policies of the regulator we will be safe

As far as breaking the rules goes , hell we all do that on occasion. It would be impossible to fly for a living without breaking some rule once in a while.

There are more of course, but I don't have time right now. Cat, most of the time I can expect a good laugh from your posts but when you're bored, you're pure gold.

And therein CID lies the difference between you and me, I am comfortable with who I am and have no problem with the whole world reading what I post. Because I strive to at least be honest in my thoughts and any statements that I make.

There's no difference there. I think our posts on AvCanada have equal reach and honesty is a virtue we probably both share. The difference is that we see the world quite differently. I honestly believe you perceive things like you write them. Therein lies the tragic truth.

Get help pickle-boy.

marktheone · Post by **marktheone** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:41 am

Sonicblues market share has been totally reformed in this last week. If they do come back they will not survive. The cost of this has been far greater than the reward. As a operator in their former market area we will never let it slide to that point again.

We all miss you Ed...

Mark

Swearingen · Post by **Swearingen** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:44 am

I have been around the aviation scene, for quite some time. I instructed on the coast and had the opportunity to work for a company that went bankrupt. Some people said it was only a mattter of time till we lost an aircraft. I for one never believed that because i never personally saw a pilot lose there job for refusing to fly an aircraft. The management did make some really bad decsions, and the company was always cash strapped. On some of our work our prime competition was Sonic Blue. I think that the core of the problem is companies like Sonic Blue. They nickel and dime every contract so that no one makes any money. It is real easy to lay the blame on the pilots and the AME's, why an unairworthy aircraft was flown/signed out, but I don't believe that to be right.
The management at Sonic Blue and other companies must take the blame. Why take the work at a loss, only to turn around and make the employees eat the cost. It is easy to say in hindsight that the employees should just say no! But who is on the employees side...... I think that is up to the government agencies that we are paying for to stand up for the working people. Give the employees the power to say no with out losing their job.
I have seen Transport check the boxes in an audit and say everything is fine, when everybody else on the field knows that is not the case. Maybe Transport needs to be empowered to look at more then placards and paperwork.
I think the only way for this industry to change is for all of us to start demanding change. Maybe that means lobbying government, policing our fellow pilots actions ( helping the younger guys from flight schools get the right job....without paying for it), or forming a semi proffesional association. I am sure there are lots of other ideas that everyone has, and that may be the most constructive way for all of us as profeesionals to proceed. Particularly people (myself included) who are now in positions to try and bring about change without fear of retribution. So instead of flaming each other and slamming each others opinion maybe we should all work together and change the situation.

I sincerely give my condolances to the friends and family of the young proffesional killed in this latest tragedy. As well as to all the other people who were touched by tragedy this year.

Cheers

Swearingen · Post by **Swearingen** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:45 am

sorry triple post

Swearingen · Post by **Swearingen** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:46 am

I posted in error.