Liberal Whining

[costermonger]

But seriously, Im not liberal cause they are corrupt, and Im not a conservative cause they are right wing

Well, to be fair, there's a difference between liberal and Liberal, as well as a (much smaller) difference between conservative and Conservative. You can "be a liberal" without supporting the Liberals.

[Dust Devil]

Here ya are birddog just for you



ohhhhhh scarrrrrrryyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look the parliment building is on fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What are we gonna do. Pretty soon the sky is gonna fall!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/yawn

[Wilbur]

Harper's going to move the parliment buildings, supreme court, and Bank of Canada to Calgary. All other federal agencies will be moving from Ontario and Quebec to cities in the west. Ralph Klien will be appointed Governor General. Once all these federal employees have moved to the west, along with all the businesses that feed off their departments, parlimentary seats will be reallocated with most being in the west. Ontario is doomed to be on the political back benches and an economic wasteland.

[shimmydampner]

Not really, everyone from the East is moving to Alberta for work anyways. Eventually, when the transplanted Easterners outnumber the homegrown westerners, the name will be changed from Alberta to New Newfoundland-Ontario and the Liberals will be back. Stephen Harper's minority government is as good as it's ever gonna get for poor ol' Alberta. Sorry.

[Holy Magenta]

Costermonger you are totally right.

I definately have very liberal minded views, but I have conservative thoughts about protecting borders and trade rights etc etc. I hope things don't get polarized like the states, where people venomously defend whether they are republican or democrat. It was actually on Chris Rocks comedy cd that he suggested only idiots can be so close minded, and real rational people consider things on an issue by issue basis. He of course said this with alot of swearing, but he hit the nail on the head. But basically we all will be liberal minded or conservative leaning depending on the issue and how it effects us directly. To stand there and say I will only support liberal party platform, or conservative, is stupid and poor example of democracy at best.

That is why its important to have a great MP that represents his riding and their wishes. ITs frustrating when it appears that they don't and they are forced to vote party line (pm dictatorship) when it doesnt represent people regionally. That is the challenge with our system. I had really high hopes when Martin came in because he promised open votes in the house, yet he didnt follow through and that is why I was distrustful of him.

As far as western complaints, I really don't have any. I think its the fear of not having any say is what has people always with their backs up.
At times we are regionally different, and one universal law or policy doesn't reflect the needs and desires of everyone. People in the greater Toronto area may have very different needs and beliefs than people in the prairies, northern woodlands, or the southern iterior of the west.

Really the only thing that bugged me was gun control and thats because its a waste of money. The idea is wondeful, but wasn't practical. Arrogantly stating spending 2 billion to save one life is worth it, when honestly that much money could be spent to save hundreds of thousands of lives in so many vast other ways!!! Understandably people in the Toronto area don't need guns because the vast majority aren't hunters or associated with farming. Although I know for a fact there is a pile of gun owners in Ontario, many many hunters, who Im sure were not happy with the things going down in Ottawa. However, its painted by the media that the crazy gun-toting western gay haters are the only ones opposed to single minded policy. ITs really quite funny actually. But its that feeling of lack of control in the west, that is the catalyst to these lovely debates, that and the media.

The political extremist battle in Canada is honestly over blown, I think Canada has a fanatical media trying to make things exciting, cause well things are pretty good here. Other than that, i have alot of family in Ontario, never lived there, but i know they are just like me, other than occasional region differences in need.

nuff said... luv you Canada... but at times the best country in the world can seem the most frustrating.

[shimmydampner]

Excellent post. Very well said.

[Dust Devil]

CID Birddog and Shimmy. do you have any ideas for what could solve the western alianation that occures other than ignoring it and other than western seperation?

[...]

CID Birddog and Shimmy. do you have any ideas for what could solve the western alianation that occures other than ignoring it and other than western seperation?

1. Send them rolling papers?
2. Legalize tree humping?
3. Free family therapy sessions concentrating on the issues surrounding the benefit to hugging your kids in public?


Other than that...you got me.




I hope you know I m kidding...anyway it's Sunday and I'll get back to you later

[CID]

CID Birddog and Shimmy. do you have any ideas for what could solve the western alianation that occures other than ignoring it and other than western seperation?

Education, respect and tolerance.

Some of the most outspoken western seperatists don't know shite about Quebec's history or the French influence in Canada overall. Stephen Harper himself fails to accept or acknowledge the situation.

Stephen Harper:

"Make no mistake. Canada is not a bilingual country. In fact it is less bilingual today than it has ever been."

What school did Stephen Harper attend? Was he home schooled by idiots? Most of the rhetoric from the west consists of arguments that the east has ruled Canada for too long, and that the French think they're "all that" and they are trying to force their culture on Westerners.

The truth of the matter is that a large percentage of the population lives in the eastern part of the country. The GTA alone has about 18% of the population of Canada. Ontario and Quebec combined represent 2/3 (two-thirds) of the population. And it's still a mystery to Albertans why there is such a large influence from eastern Canada?

Then there is the jealousy of what Quebec has. Alberta wants to be a distict society within Canada but they have absolutely no historical or cultural basis for it. The sole basis is money. They argue that they are rich, therefore unique and deserving of special consideration because their boundaries happened to include an oil patch. An oil patch who's development was on the backs of ALL Canadians, and who's ongoing research and exploration is largely dependant on federal money.

If westerners actually educated themselves and discovered the basis of Qubec's claims there might be a chance to build a foundation of understanding.

Of course this is a two way street. Outside of Montreal, Quebecers for the most part don't leave the province for work or play. They are quite isolated and have quite an archane view of the rest of Canada. They are largely unaware of French communities outside of Quebec.

All they know is that they have a legitimacy to their claims based on history and culture. And money. Don't underestimate Quebec's contribution to the economy, past and present.

So, to summarize, we need education. We need to explain the claims from both sides and have people form informed opinions.

Of course in order for this to happen, we need a leader that is educated in these issues and provincial governments that are willing to take the lead from the federal government and impose a greater emphasis on Canadian history in the schools.

Obviously, this is a long term solution. The current generation is lost to all the partisan and regional bickering and extremist rhetoric from both sides.

Furthermore, Alberta needs to shed itself of Ralph Klein. Nothing can be fixed as long as you have "Red-Neck" Ralphy sabotaging things with his poisonous rhetoric.

Ralph is totally committed to separation. Nothing else. Only education will bring around change since the current voting population is too misinformed to realize just how evil Ralph is.

[Dust Devil]

CID Birddog and Shimmy. do you have any ideas for what could solve the western alianation that occures other than ignoring it and other than western seperation?

Education, respect and tolerance.

Nice words but you have givin no way to implement it.

Hey how about this one. "peace on earth"

[Dust Devil]

All they know is that they have a legitimacy to their claims based on history and culture. And money. Don't underestimate Quebec's contribution to the economy, past and present.

You gotta be shitting me? How about the Indians who were in quebec long before any frenchman. Quebecers have a ligitimate claim my ass. They have no more claim to that or any land than anyother canadian.

[Chantal]

Well I'm not going to stop whining about the Liberal party because of all those Liberal voters! Someone needs to give their heads a shake. It's too bad because I like Frank McKenna and I see he's on the list for new party leader.

I also believe in whining about Ralph Klein. So he's going to push health reforms in Alberta but he says "some reforms might violate Canada Health Act", what is that supposed to mean?

[CID]

Nice words but you have givin no way to implement it.

These aren't empty words. You should read the whole post before chriping. But then again, I can tell anything I like but I can't force you to "implement" it.

You gotta be shitting me? How about the Indians who were in quebec long before any frenchman. Quebecers have a ligitimate claim my ass. They have no more claim to that or any land than anyother canadian.

Ah...excellent. You read the rest!

I'm merely commenting on the Western Alienation issue. Not the "Indians" issue. Quebec's claims are aligned with France's involvment in the discovery of territory that eventually became Canada as opposed to Englands claims and involvment.

If you wish to start another thread on First Nations people (that's what they like to be called now) then go ahead. It is a worthy cause.

By the way Dust Devil, thanks for illustrating exactly what I meant by the current generation and their inibility to solve the problem due to prejudices. I couldn't have asked for a better example.

[Dust Devil]

If you wish to start another thread on First Nations people (that's what they like to be called now) then go ahead. It is a worthy cause.

By the way Dust Devil, thanks for illustrating exactly what I meant by the current generation and their inibility to solve the problem due to prejudices. I couldn't have asked for a better example.

what prejudice thing did I say?

[CID]

what prejudice thing did I say?

Perhaps you aren't fully aware of the various definitions of "prejudice"

prej·u·dice P Pronunciation Key (prj-ds) n.

1(a) An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.

1(b)A preconceived preference or idea.

2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.

3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

4. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

Cheers.

[Dust Devil]

what prejudice thing did I say?

Perhaps you aren't fully aware of the various definitions of "prejudice"

prej·u·dice P Pronunciation Key (prj-ds) n.

1(a) An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.

1(b)A preconceived preference or idea.

2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.

3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.

4. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

Cheers.

Once again what did I say that was prejudice?

the only prejudging I see is your idea of all western canadians to be rednecks.

3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group

Irrational suspicion of a group.....hmmmmmm mabey like your irrational suspicion of the Conservative Party......hmmmm.....mabey....ya think Mabey judgeing them before they have a chance to govern could be considered pre judging?......hmmmm.......just a thought.

[CID]

Quebecers have a ligitimate claim my ass.

In my opinion, that statment is "An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts."

By the way, I didn't paint ALL Albertans as rednecks.

CID:

Furthermore, Alberta needs to shed itself of Ralph Klein. Nothing can be fixed as long as you have "Red-Neck" Ralphy sabotaging things with his poisonous rhetoric.

I called Ralph Klown a red-neck. I'm sure there are plenty more red-necks in Canada in each of the provinces. But I think most leaders can't be classified as such.

[Dust Devil]

By the way, I didn't paint ALL Albertans as rednecks.

wow now you just prejudged all western canadians as Albertans

the only prejudging I see is your idea of all western canadians to be rednecks.

[CID]

wow now you just prejudged all western canadians as Albertans

Dust Devil, it's time to put down the bottle and get some rest. Chance are you need to go to work tommorow and a huge hangover won't help things.

[Dust Devil]

wow now you just prejudged all western canadians as Albertans

Dust Devil, it's time to put down the bottle and get some rest. Chance are you need to go to work tommorow and a huge hangover won't help things.

So either you didn't judge western canadians as albertans or you just changed the subject because you realized you we're wrong. which is it?

[CID]

So either you didn't judge western canadians as albertans or you just changed the subject because you realized you we're wrong. which is it?

It was not my intent to categorize western Canadians as Albertans. I think most would find that obvious.

If however, you feel that my statement was misleading, I offer my sincere apologies and ask for forgiveness.

I will do 2 rosaries over lunch in your honour as penance. I hope we can put this unfortunate incident behind us Dust Devil and continue to be the best of friends.

Cheers

[Flybabe]

You want to hear something that us redneck westerners complain about? I remember... the military bases that were closed in western Canada after the Liberal's gained power - the unproportional number of electoral seats - a LIBERAL government that STILL couldn't fix the softwood lumber quandary. BSE.... (another subject I'm not going to get started on).... forced bilingualism.

Perhaps I spent too much time in the US but you know what? Simple little things like not having to listen to double the announcements on airlines because they are an English speaking country. You tell me there are more franglais in Canada than there are hispanic in the US...NO OFFENSE intended to the francophones on this site.

Saying that east coasters feel more distanced from the PM because he is western makes as much sense as assuming those in Maine feel distanced by Dubya the Texican.

As for the handshake? Who the hell really cares? It was a staged photo opportunity.. it is none of the publics business what Steven's relationship is with his kid... get over it. Come to think if it, I think I need a hug too.

Ok slag away.