Pilot Immigration

[dstechnical]

for years operators, especially operators with rotary wing flight schools, bring in foreign pilot students. train them to commercial level. All of a sudden here we have these students doing commercial flights, Most of them do it for free. TC does not care because immigration is not there area. The foreign students get commercial licences from canada. Citizenship is not a requirement for a licence. From TC point of view the flights are quite legal. By the time Emloyment and immigration get a complaint the pilot is long gone or gets a sutdent work visa and it's all legal.
In Quebec they are hiring pilots and engineers from France because the operator says he can't find french speaking pilots. Maybe we should be paying our own pilots to learn french.

[Hickory Stick]

Classiv:

You make valid point, but I do not believe the time is near when foreign carriers will no longer require the use of expat pilots. It is still a long time for many countries to be able to supply their own pilots. It will be even longer for them to be able to fill their iron with experienced pilots.

There is still plenty of overseas work, and there will continue to be.
My opinion, since I fly overseas.

Cheers

[bob sacamano]

Let's just look at a time line scenario. We'll look at 2 pilots...

Pilot A has the legal right to only work in Canada, no dual citizenships or anything of the sort. He trains in Canada.

Pilot B is from an eastern country where the airlines are literally growing faster than pilots can be trained and aircraft built. (don't kid yourself, this is happening, read the issue of wings magazine...) This pilot comes to train in Canada because
1) we're just about the cheapest in the world(developed nation anyways) 2) the training is fantastic
3)there just aren't enough instructors and aircraft in his home country to fulfill demand.
4)OH AND THE MONEY SHOT.... because our government will effin pay for it!!!

Both start the CPL course on (01 Jan 05) we'll say.
Let's say the course takes exactly a year, and on (01 jan 2006) both finish with a CPL and Multi/IFR

Pilot A gets a ramp job here in Canada(lucky guy) and spends a year on the ramp(being generous)
Pilot B heads home, buys his type rating on either a 737 or A320 and within 3 months is sitting in the right seat of a shiny new jet as F/O.

Within a year (Jan 2007) their hours would look something like this:
Pilot A: 200hrs
Pilot B: 900hrs(700hrs Heavy jet time)

Pilot A has done a good job working for 10 bucks an hour up in nunavut away from his family and friends and is now moved to F/O on the Navajo(awsome!) and in the following year, logs 500multi and pulls in a sweet 24K paycheque!
Pilot B logs another 700hrs Heavy time, living at home, making a great salary(probably 60K+) and maybe has made captain by this point!

So as of Jan. 2008 hours look like:
Pilot A: 700TT (500 multi piston) + a broken back and empty bank account
Pilot B: 1600TT(1400 heavy jet) + "0" debt, money in the bank

Now Pilot B decides he wants to move to Canada for whatever reason, cheaper housing, higher standard of living, etc. and immigrates... it just so happens that Air Canada/Westjet/Canjet is hiring... well well, who are they going to hire?
Pilot A, a guy who has 700TT, 500 multi as F/O on a Navajo,
or
Pilot B, a guy who has 1400TT, a type rating and 1400hrs on 737's....?!?


So looks like pilot A has at least another 3-4 years to go of hard labour, selling himself etc, before making it close to the amount of hours and experience an airline is looking for. By that time, Pilot B will have made Captain, probably pulling in over 100k/year while Pilot A has been scraping by on 24-36/yr for the past 5 years.....While trying to pay off his debt from training, losing friends from being in the middle of BFN, missing out on christmas, birthdays, neices, nephews, etc you get the point.
And maybe, just maybe if he's lucky by the time he has enough hours and experience(turbine PIC) etc, this hiring boom WON'T be over and he WON'T be stuck in BFN working for peanuts perpetuating the cycle.


Does this sound fair to anyone?

First of all, i'm fed up from reading these crazy ass what if stories. I think other pilots are getting jobs because they're out there doing the work rather than sitting here and complaining on how bad they got it. I can't believe how ridiculous this post is.

p.s. 73s and 320s are not heavy jets.r

Bob Sacamano wrote "Funny, lots of Canadians flying in the states, I guess they got no locals either"

..... Bob, seriously, where do you get your info?? Do you really think that these Canadians who are flying in the states are there on Visas??? Please tell me which visa they have, my immigration lawyer would love to know.

Are you talking about a Canadian with a green card (ie via family or otherwise)????. There are no, read again NO! pilots who have immigrated to the USA LEGALLY on work visas (other than instructors, ie 'teachers'). There is no 'points based' immigration in the US that could allow commercial pilots to immigrate.

Just because your friend Bob's parents were born in the US, and he was able to get a green card/passport, doesn't mean there are Canadian Pilots working in the US.

And, you being a veteran to this site, should know better than that.

Research first, talk second.

Well, my info is not purely based from what I read on avcanada, crazy I know.

Firstly, I'd get rid of that laywer, if he was any good, you'd be flying in the states now, ok?

Since as you said, there are NO LEGAL WAYS for a commercial pilot to fly donw there, why do you have an immigration laywer?

I'm not talking about any certain Canadian so don't start assuming. Canadian pilots are flying all over the world, including the states. If you think that what you read on avcanada or what your laywer told you is true, then that's your problem, but to say that there are no Canadians that played the system and made it down there shows how narrow minded and far off from the truth you are.

Oh, and you need to research these type of loopholes on your own.

Once all the Canadian pilots come home, don't complain about any foreigners flying here.

In my experience in the Canadian aviation scene, I haven't met any foreigners that got jobs based on their hours.

[altiplano]

-

[classiv]

How hard is it if you can find a US company that will sponsor you for a Green Card in the US?

[altiplano]

-

[yycflyguy]

Ummm, why would you want to go to the US now anyways. Every single major airline has either pilots on furlough, is in bankruptcy protection, or both. The regional airlines pay far less than what you can expect to see elsewhere in the world for similar type aircraft. If you are thinking about a part 135 operator you have to be extremely careful as most cut corners with training, maintenance, duty restrictions etc.

On the flipside, Air Canada, Jazz, Westjet, Skyservice and Canjet are ALL hiring opening up lots of positions at the 703/704 level.... it is a good time to be a pilot in Canada. Enjoy it because it wont last forever.

[altiplano]

-

[yycflyguy]

Quote:
Ummm, why would you want to go to the US now anyways.


Because I never seem to have enough time for the jobs I want up here yet I could be flying an RJ down there with the experience I have

Airlines utilizing the CRJ include:

Independance Air - Bankrupt
US Airways Express - Bankruptcy protection
Delta Connection - Bankruptcy protection
Jazz - hiring guys with a minimum of 1500 TT with plans for growth

You do know that the regional airlines in the US pay between $21,000 at American Eagle (guys on furlough) to a max of around $30,000 with Allegheny/Piedmont. When I was in ground school at Expressjet the first year salary was going to be under $24,000 to live in Houston, Newark or Cleveland. Jazz pays $34.7 to start.

Don't forget that even though they post lower minimums in the US it doesn't mean you will be hired at the minimum. If you have more than 1500 hours TT I suggest you would be better off with Jazz.

[Pandy]

Well while I agree with the problem of loosing jobs to people from other countries I should also point out that they are realy helping our flight school industry...a lot of flight schools these days are training mostly international students....& as such have to hire more instructors.....though I'm not sure that this balances things out...it is something to consider

[r22captain]

but that is half our problem....way too many flight schools. It's a free for all market as far as training goes.

[mooseport]

All you whiners keep at it re foriegn pilots!......
I was a foriegn pilot and did many years in Canada. I worked just as hard and had to go through all the same hoops, shit holes, and crap as any other guy. I filled the gap, not take the job. If some other guy was qualified they would have got it.
Get a grip!
I had a great time in Canada and enjoyed the flying and the great times I had. ........maybe I should come back and steal another job seeing I have a big plane type rating.......and they let me become a Canadian...just like you. Dont be an ass- I contributed more to your society than some of your supposed Canadians put together- and
Im proud to now be a Canadian!