To play Devil's advocate, do you think that Regency has been treated unfairly lately?
1. The investigation into the crash hasn't even been completed yet, yet Sonic has basically been run out of business and tarred and feathered.
What's going to happen if the investigation concludes that Sonic wasn't responsible for the engine failure? And this may actually be the case depending based on some things I've been reading.
Are you all going to apologize?
2. Everyone hates Regency/Sonic because they've been making pilots essentially pay to work for free (at least until lately) and exploiting the desperation of pilots who want to work in their chosen field. You know they do this in the US where you can pay gobs of money to log time on all sorts of aircraft in commercial ops. Why are these US companies not trashed the same way Sonic is regularily trashed?
What about the European operators where you have to buy a hugely expensive type rating and then work for very low wages? Well, they get attacked a lot, so maybe I shouldn't bother mentioning that one.
To look on the bright side, Sonic at least gave rookie pilots a break so they could get into this very competitive industry. Sure they paid peanuts, but given what even the major airlines are now paying pilots, it doesn't look like peanuts very much anymore.
3. Regency was a bad operator... well, how many other bad operators are there out there. Why aren't they singled out?
In defense of Regency/Sonic
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Personally, I think the cause of the engine failure and the resulting crash are secondary at this point in time. It looks like many people familiar with the operation felt that this accident was a way to have the entire company put under the scrutiny it deserves.
Of course its still important to get to the bottom of the cause of the accident, but I wouldn't hold my breath for any apologies no matter what the investigation finds.
As for your last comments, in my opinion, there are several operators here in Canada that are unsafe to varying degrees. Some of the issues that need to be reviewed are SEIFR, 703 ops, TC audit processes, and the implementation of SMS.
There also seems to be a great need for operators to learn more about airworthiness issues to let them make a more educated decision about safety in their operatons.
Just my 2 cents.
Of course its still important to get to the bottom of the cause of the accident, but I wouldn't hold my breath for any apologies no matter what the investigation finds.
As for your last comments, in my opinion, there are several operators here in Canada that are unsafe to varying degrees. Some of the issues that need to be reviewed are SEIFR, 703 ops, TC audit processes, and the implementation of SMS.
There also seems to be a great need for operators to learn more about airworthiness issues to let them make a more educated decision about safety in their operatons.
Just my 2 cents.
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Switchfoot
- Rank 4
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:46 pm
- Location: Twenty-four oceans, twenty-four skies.
Re: In defense of Regency/Sonic
classiv wrote:
2. Everyone hates Regency/Sonic because they've been making pilots essentially pay to work for free (at least until lately) and exploiting the desperation of pilots who want to work in their chosen field. You know they do this in the US where you can pay gobs of money to log time on all sorts of aircraft in commercial ops. Why are these US companies not trashed the same way Sonic is regularily trashed?
To look on the bright side, Sonic at least gave rookie pilots a break so they could get into this very competitive industry. Sure they paid peanuts, but given what even the major airlines are now paying pilots, it doesn't look like peanuts very much anymore.
3. Regency was a bad operator... well, how many other bad operators are there out there. Why aren't they singled out?
Okay, normally I don't respond to these threads but this one warrants a response. This sort of thing gets on my nerves a bit.
Why anyone who would go and spend thousands of dollars on an education and then work for free is beyond me. Those who are doing so should give their head a good shake. All this does is cheapen the industry for everyone. If pilots would stop flying for free then these operators wouldn't be in business...
Yes, there ARE some bad operators out there, but there are also some damn good ones in Canada too. Those ones deserve the credit...the folks in management and the pilots who get the job done in an honest and straightforward manner.
I am still amazed that some folks will prostitute their time and skills just to be on the flight deck. It's crazy...
Sorry, for the rant, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I haven't been around for that long, but 2700 hours and a few years in the industry have opened my eyes to a lot of the good and bad. It's unfortunate that another crash occurred and we don't know the results of why yet, but I for one hope that some positive changes will occur after all the attention to this one!
My few cents...
1. They'll be back....
2. I don't hate regency for paying peanuts, I hate the idiots that worked their for the peanuts AND then turn around and complain.
The guys are Ryan, Easy, and wherever else you can self sponsor don't biatch and complain about their 'moves'
3. All the bad operators ARE singled out atleast once a month we'll have someone "tarnish" an operator and the mods/Avi will pull the thread and the "discussion" is killed. We even have Mr. Publisher, complain every month once someone creates a negative thread about him....
Shitty operators cry wolf and their threads are pulled... Good operators, are so good that most people don't talk about them on the web, because they don't want others working there, especially if they're f/o's and rampers and will have someone get bumped in front of them... AND even then the good companies for ex. like Big Green will have other posters that still complain from anonymity that may or may not have worked there...
its the internet what can you do...
2. I don't hate regency for paying peanuts, I hate the idiots that worked their for the peanuts AND then turn around and complain.
The guys are Ryan, Easy, and wherever else you can self sponsor don't biatch and complain about their 'moves'
3. All the bad operators ARE singled out atleast once a month we'll have someone "tarnish" an operator and the mods/Avi will pull the thread and the "discussion" is killed. We even have Mr. Publisher, complain every month once someone creates a negative thread about him....
Shitty operators cry wolf and their threads are pulled... Good operators, are so good that most people don't talk about them on the web, because they don't want others working there, especially if they're f/o's and rampers and will have someone get bumped in front of them... AND even then the good companies for ex. like Big Green will have other posters that still complain from anonymity that may or may not have worked there...
its the internet what can you do...
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Blue Yonder
- Rank 3
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:40 pm
- Location: Calgary
A couple of snippits from the same article...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060205 ... ne_crash_3
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060205 ... ne_crash_3
andNikolas Chapman said an ongoing investigation by the Transportation Safety Board shows that evidence is pointing to a third party.
"This investigation discovered that part of the turbine wheel in the engine showed signs of a fatigue failure and this part was deep in the engine and would not have been part of Sonicblue's maintenance responsibilities," he said.
The investigation points to an engine part fatigue failure rather than other causes, he said.
Transportation Safety Board investigators have already determined there's no evidence of pilot error in the crash near Port Alberni on Vancouver Island on Jan. 21.
The turbo-prop engine Cessna 208 Caravan had about 140 flying hours since being overhauled.
Sonicblue does not have the capacity to do such overhaul work, said transportation board regional manager Bill Yearwood.
"It would be a third party," Yearwood said. "The engine was sent out to Winnipeg company for overhaul and re-installation."
But Yearwood was quick to point out that the board does not assign blame in its investigations.
"We know that there are components in the engine that are broken," he said.
BlueIt is now under investigation by Human Resources and Skills Development Canada for allegedly violating federal labour laws by allowing staff to work for free.
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Blue Yonder
- Rank 3
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- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:40 pm
- Location: Calgary
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av8tor_assrope
- Rank 6
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:34 pm
hahahaha...you all think it's a sin to blow 6 g's for a ppc here in canada. just have a look at europe. not only are guys paying tens of thousand (euro, gbp) for a type...there are guys paying 30-50 g's to buy 200-300 hrs of line experience.
i'd watch your comments there cyyz. apparently alot of people have issues with easy, ryan, thomasfly...hell even ba citiexpress.
do some research before you open your mouth
try pprune.org for a start
cheers
i'd watch your comments there cyyz. apparently alot of people have issues with easy, ryan, thomasfly...hell even ba citiexpress.
do some research before you open your mouth
try pprune.org for a start
cheers
I want to die like my grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/AFP/2005/02/16/728380av8tor_assrope wrote:i'd watch your comments there cyyz. apparently alot of people have issues with easy, ryan, thomasfly...hell even ba citiexpress.
do some research before you open your mouth
try pprune.org for a start
cheers
You must be a one of the union scumbags harassing the pilots....
Ryan, Easy - 100K a year in pay.... Regency - Volunteer work...DUBLIN (AFP) — The Irish low-cost airline Ryanair has launched court proceedings against the Irish Airline Pilots' Union (IALPA) in response to what it called "an organized campaign of harassment and intimidation" of pilots by the union.
The Dublin-based budget carrier said the campaign was being conducted through a website organized and controlled by IALPA officials.
"This 'REPA' (Ryanair European Pilot Association) website has been a conduit for an organized campaign of harassment and intimidation of Ryanair pilots who have considered ...
Those Euro douchbags don't know how good they have it anyways.....
Last edited by cyyz on Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
First off, I know very little about Sonic. That said, I think somebody stated "the cause of the engine failure is secondary".....Okay, but I thought an engine failure causing death would be front and centre?
I dont know how bad Sonic is, or isn't. Pilots "buying" jobs very rarely, if ever cause engines to quit......it's usually something a little more "nuts and bolts"?
I've heard you folk pontificate aout this company for some time, and, in a lot of cases, to a point, where there's smoke, there's fire? SO, why is it, TC seems to wait until somebody actually DIES before stepping in? Okay, so Skyward didn't kill anybody...but Keystone did. I'd kind of like to think TC would step in and do something about a company, the day before they kill one of my family members, not the day after. If TC feels, with some justification, that a company needs a "look see", then by all means do it BEFORE an accident occurs...not after!
I dont know how bad Sonic is, or isn't. Pilots "buying" jobs very rarely, if ever cause engines to quit......it's usually something a little more "nuts and bolts"?
I've heard you folk pontificate aout this company for some time, and, in a lot of cases, to a point, where there's smoke, there's fire? SO, why is it, TC seems to wait until somebody actually DIES before stepping in? Okay, so Skyward didn't kill anybody...but Keystone did. I'd kind of like to think TC would step in and do something about a company, the day before they kill one of my family members, not the day after. If TC feels, with some justification, that a company needs a "look see", then by all means do it BEFORE an accident occurs...not after!
Stop ragging on TC people... TC doesn't give a shit about you or me...Doc wrote: If TC feels, with some justification, that a company needs a "look see", then by all means do it BEFORE an accident occurs...not after!
Our vision: A transportation
system in Canada that is recognized
worldwide as safe and secure, efficient
and environmentally responsible.
anyone who has a mission statement like that obviously doesn't have you in their mind.......
I'm sure Timbuktu's transportation board has the same one... and, I'm sure timbuk has a "recognized" safe record, compared to another 3rd world country....
And anyone who puts "safety" and the "environment" in one "vision" is a useless tart too...
LoL, it's true I was confused.. But we're wasting our breath when it comes to TC.Doc wrote:We "rag" on TC BECAUSE they dont give a shit about you or me! Or maybe YOU haven't got that figured out yet, cyyz??
Like you said, it takes a death at an operator for them to pull an OC and the op closes down anyways after a crash and start a new one, and TC approves the new OC for the "new" op....
We can really only worry and do something about ourselves.. And even that obviously doesn't seem to work, people will chance "it" for a few hours in their books...
