Why does CMA and Georgian suck
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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eep...2 Green
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Navajo-dude
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complexintentions
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the original tony
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why do they suck??
i am still waiting for the answers from all the brilliant people that have never worked there. boring flying or boering flying? what isn't after so many years? maybe the spelling has changed for some, but it's all the same. Sched flying, neat eh?? Sched means mostly routine for all you haters who have never flown an aircraft bigger than a 172.
the training is top notch, unless someone has a beef with Flight Safety...
and the guys/gals are good to fly with. YES, there are a few nobody likes to fly with, maybe it's you??? maybe me???? who knows.
bottom line is there are too many other places you could be stuck flying besides these two with the same or less pay. and i guarantee they don't have AC passes, medical plan, union/association, guaranteed 11+days off.
sounds pretty shitty to me. i'd definetly quit a spot like that...................
the original tony
i am still waiting for the answers from all the brilliant people that have never worked there. boring flying or boering flying? what isn't after so many years? maybe the spelling has changed for some, but it's all the same. Sched flying, neat eh?? Sched means mostly routine for all you haters who have never flown an aircraft bigger than a 172.
the training is top notch, unless someone has a beef with Flight Safety...
and the guys/gals are good to fly with. YES, there are a few nobody likes to fly with, maybe it's you??? maybe me???? who knows.
bottom line is there are too many other places you could be stuck flying besides these two with the same or less pay. and i guarantee they don't have AC passes, medical plan, union/association, guaranteed 11+days off.
sounds pretty shitty to me. i'd definetly quit a spot like that...................
the original tony
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co-joe
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I don't have a problem with a 200 hour wonder boy/chick getting 22.5K/y to start out with. Who else puts said 200 hour greenhorn in the right seat of a high performance turboprop with airline lifestyle AND benefits AND lets them live in YYC?
My first year as a pilot I made less than 10 grand drove almost 20 ooo km hunting and got used and abused with no benefits (or lube) to speak of. IT'S CALLED DOING YOUR TIME!
Welcome to Canadian Aviation...NOW GO HOME.
My first year as a pilot I made less than 10 grand drove almost 20 ooo km hunting and got used and abused with no benefits (or lube) to speak of. IT'S CALLED DOING YOUR TIME!
Welcome to Canadian Aviation...NOW GO HOME.
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eep...2 Green
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eep...2 Green
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It'll sure be nice once all aviation training outfits start teaching the basics of supply and demand to pilots so that we can get rid of these tedious posts about starting wages/salaries.
Ten times more pilots than the industry needs equals (and will ALWAYS equal) shitty wages, right up the chain. Sure would be nice if people would figure this out.
Ten times more pilots than the industry needs equals (and will ALWAYS equal) shitty wages, right up the chain. Sure would be nice if people would figure this out.
Bob - "so I heard on Avcanada, that to many pilots not enough jobs"charlie_g wrote:Ten times more pilots than the industry needs equals (and will ALWAYS equal) shitty wages, right up the chain. Sure would be nice if people would figure this out.
Instructor - "no they lie, once you get your license you're gold"
Bob - "Okay sign me up"
...
Bob(on avcanada) "Doh, should have listened to you lads"
Instructor "No timmy, bob doesn't know what he's talking about"
Timmy "Okay, I sign up"
I should know better than to get into this one....... 
But here goes. As a WestJet pilot ,I can say unequivocally the we DO NOT have the s&*t worked out of us. On average 15 days off a month.
I'm not sure how often mom gets you to clean the garage. But in the real world that is a pretty good sched.
Good luck in your career and fly safe.
But here goes. As a WestJet pilot ,I can say unequivocally the we DO NOT have the s&*t worked out of us. On average 15 days off a month.
I'm not sure how often mom gets you to clean the garage. But in the real world that is a pretty good sched.
Good luck in your career and fly safe.
"Hey pile it, you wanna hold my bottle?"
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squawk 7600
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It is funny the different opinions people have on different companies and aspects of the industry. The ones who appreciate where they are at, are the ones who have had to work for what they have. Most likely, they had to move out of home and pay their rent and buy their groceries on a wage that would make wellfare recipients laugh. But they do it because they love it and they are following their dream.
You sure can tell who the silver-spoon-fed ones are. The ones that didn't have to move out of home, got a job at daddys' buddy's charter company because they were buds back in the day when you got hired at AC with 200 hrs and a fresh IFR. These children just don't understand what it takes to get somewhere in life based on a good work ethic. Schooling was all payed for by mommy and daddy, and they never experienced what it was like to only have 5 bucks in your pocket and no food in the fridge until next weeks payday.
They are the people that complain about these companies because they don't know any better...they expect the best because that is all they ever had.
Ofcourse, this my opinion only.
You sure can tell who the silver-spoon-fed ones are. The ones that didn't have to move out of home, got a job at daddys' buddy's charter company because they were buds back in the day when you got hired at AC with 200 hrs and a fresh IFR. These children just don't understand what it takes to get somewhere in life based on a good work ethic. Schooling was all payed for by mommy and daddy, and they never experienced what it was like to only have 5 bucks in your pocket and no food in the fridge until next weeks payday.
They are the people that complain about these companies because they don't know any better...they expect the best because that is all they ever had.
Ofcourse, this my opinion only.
Don't worry, someday the meek will inherit the earth....squawk 7600 wrote: You sure can tell who the silver-spoon-fed ones are. The ones that didn't have to move out of home, got a job at daddys' buddy's charter company because they were buds back in the day when you got hired at AC with 200 hrs and a fresh IFR. These children just don't understand what it takes to get somewhere in life based on a good work ethic. Schooling was all payed for by mommy and daddy, and they never experienced what it was like to only have 5 bucks in your pocket and no food in the fridge until next weeks payday.
They are the people that complain about these companies because they don't know any better...they expect the best because that is all they ever had.
Ofcourse, this my opinion only.
Would someone please explain where this masochistic attitude toward work comes from in Canadian aviation?
Where is it written that you have to been poor and have worked for $5 to have a good work ethic?
I've never been poor, I've never worked for $5/hr, I currently own my own business and probably work a hell of a lot harder than all you bastards combined.
The only difference is that I don't try to turn my work ethic into some kind of holier than though 'suffering is good' BS that some old-school Christians are in to.
Why don't all you minimum wage ramp workers and $6/hr pilots get a big cross and nail yourself to it and put it out front of the airport so the world can see what great work ethics you have.
btw: i once sucked a dick
Life's a Bitch, and then you work in Canadian Aviation
To answer part of the question in the thread, Georgian sucks because it is an Ontario company, pretty much a no brainer on that one. CMA, hard to say, just sucks I guess, but from what I have heard - the pilots are far from overworked, so I don't know based on that what the little pukes are whining about, it's a job, so suck it up or shut up and go back to mommy and daddys basement and play some more nintendo or play with yourself or whatever ya do...
Actually, the X-Box seems pretty popular at CMA... but mine is not in the basement, and this is definately not my Dad's house. (I get to drink the milk straight from the jug!)
The wages can't be all that bad since there are a few 200 hour wonders with new 360's!
Maybe CMA pilots are just smarter with their money.
Maybe they're just smarter?
The wages can't be all that bad since there are a few 200 hour wonders with new 360's!
Maybe CMA pilots are just smarter with their money.
Maybe they're just smarter?
Don't drink the Kool Aid!
I'm not sure it's fair to compare CMA to GGN. Keep in mind that GGN's mins on the 1900 are 2000 hours and they tend to hire closer to 3000 (yes that's thousands, not hundreds). CMA on the other hand is know for hiring many 200 hour wonders.
For those CMA 200 hour wonders, 21K/year is probably twice what their friends are making instructing. And when they get their upgrades at 2500 or even 3000 hours, their buddies are still instructing for 15K/year and debating IFR questions for hours as they talk about writing the ATPL's. So in terms of age profile vs years in the industry vs income, I think they're just fine.
GGN's wage, although higher, is being paid to people who have 5-6 years in the industry - most recently flying as PIC's on light twin turbine a/c. So it sucks more - relatively speaking.
Therefore - I don't think it's fair to compare the two - they just happen to fly the same airplane.
Ultimately, we're all getting screwed by being part of a crappy industry at a particularly crappy time! And that's not any company's fault. We're gonna get screwed for the rest of our careers - and so we'll complain for the rest of our careers. This game is all about timing - and ours sucked. But we didn't know that - nor could we have.
So take comfort in knowing you've been screwed, you'll continue to be screwed, and there's nothing you can do, or could have done to change that. The only thing we have control of is quitting... so...
For those CMA 200 hour wonders, 21K/year is probably twice what their friends are making instructing. And when they get their upgrades at 2500 or even 3000 hours, their buddies are still instructing for 15K/year and debating IFR questions for hours as they talk about writing the ATPL's. So in terms of age profile vs years in the industry vs income, I think they're just fine.
GGN's wage, although higher, is being paid to people who have 5-6 years in the industry - most recently flying as PIC's on light twin turbine a/c. So it sucks more - relatively speaking.
Therefore - I don't think it's fair to compare the two - they just happen to fly the same airplane.
Ultimately, we're all getting screwed by being part of a crappy industry at a particularly crappy time! And that's not any company's fault. We're gonna get screwed for the rest of our careers - and so we'll complain for the rest of our careers. This game is all about timing - and ours sucked. But we didn't know that - nor could we have.
So take comfort in knowing you've been screwed, you'll continue to be screwed, and there's nothing you can do, or could have done to change that. The only thing we have control of is quitting... so...
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Flying Nutcracker
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I think we've all been spoiled to think that life should be luxurious as soon as we get our wings and land that first flying job. What happened to the idea of actually working for a living???
We all have to start somewhere, and as far as starting at CMA or GGN I think it sounds like a good opportunity to further your career. Allbeit not luxurious, you would most likely be enhancing your opportunities in the future.
If you're smart about your career, you take every good opportunity that comes your way, and use that as your tool to move up in the industry. If you're at 250 hours and get the chance to fly a nice airplane in an "airline" environment, take it and enjoy it! You're already a step up the ladder. From that point on, you have the chance to get to the majors without going through all the agony of "bottom feeders" and unreasonable employers. Allthough having said that, I think pilots who have been through the bottom feeders have a much bigger appreciation for the actual job/workload/schedule at companies such as CMA/GGN.
It may not pay that good in the beginning, but you can only go one way - up! And the sooner you land a job at a company like CMA/GGN the sooner you're off to your next job, with more money down the road.
Mduffy said it really well! The one thing you can control is quitting. You take a job knowing what you're getting yourself into. I'm pretty sure the job comes with a job description!?!?!?! If you don't like it, stop bitching about it! Either suck it up or find something else to do!!!
I guess for some it really sucks to actually have to work for a living...
We all have to start somewhere, and as far as starting at CMA or GGN I think it sounds like a good opportunity to further your career. Allbeit not luxurious, you would most likely be enhancing your opportunities in the future.
If you're smart about your career, you take every good opportunity that comes your way, and use that as your tool to move up in the industry. If you're at 250 hours and get the chance to fly a nice airplane in an "airline" environment, take it and enjoy it! You're already a step up the ladder. From that point on, you have the chance to get to the majors without going through all the agony of "bottom feeders" and unreasonable employers. Allthough having said that, I think pilots who have been through the bottom feeders have a much bigger appreciation for the actual job/workload/schedule at companies such as CMA/GGN.
It may not pay that good in the beginning, but you can only go one way - up! And the sooner you land a job at a company like CMA/GGN the sooner you're off to your next job, with more money down the road.
Mduffy said it really well! The one thing you can control is quitting. You take a job knowing what you're getting yourself into. I'm pretty sure the job comes with a job description!?!?!?! If you don't like it, stop bitching about it! Either suck it up or find something else to do!!!
I guess for some it really sucks to actually have to work for a living...
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wally gator
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I am curious as to the qualifications and work history of the person who started this posting bashing CMA and Georgian.
Maybe he/she can enlighten the rest of us as to the companies they have worked for which apparently are or were superior in pay, lifestyle, benefits, and career advancement, than Georgian or CMA.
As for unhappy people at both companies, I don't see a mad rush out the door, other than to the Majors, so it really can't be that bad.
Maybe he/she can enlighten the rest of us as to the companies they have worked for which apparently are or were superior in pay, lifestyle, benefits, and career advancement, than Georgian or CMA.
As for unhappy people at both companies, I don't see a mad rush out the door, other than to the Majors, so it really can't be that bad.
