Check out

[Blastor]

Should the great MOT bureaucrats in all their wisdom and knowledge regulate training in a more logical fashion ?

Such has an actual "endorsement" for Mountain Flying and an "endorsement" for Complex Aircraft instead of the usual ways of going with your buddy for a few hours........

[OW]

I've always wondered about the logic of requiring a rating to fly at night over the bald prairie, but no special training is "required" to fly over or amongst the mountains.

With recent crashes both in the mountains (during training) and on a night flight (training), we certainly might draw a simple comparison/conclusion, that they are both potentially hazardous.

Transport has set out some guidlines for night training, but has seemingly avoided what, in my opinion, is much more needed guidance.

Could that be because Transport realizes that the Hazards of changing weather and variety of terrain known as 'mountainous regions' makes it very difficult to set clear guidlines that are totally universal for Mountain Flying.

If you can't clearly define it, don't put your foot in your mouth and try. Is that the reason? Could Transport ever be accused of not doing that?

Just a thought.

My vote was in favor of the ratings.

[oldtimer]

Create a foolish system and only fools will use it. Rules were made for fools to observe and guidance for wise men. Maybe this is natures way of adding chlorine to the gene pool. No matter how many rules we make, somebody is going to break them and get killed. Period. Just get used to it. What we need is a total change in attitude. We need to encourage flight schools to offer real true interesting courses. Make them fun, interesting, educational. Just look at airplanes like the Cessna 337. Cessna's original plan was to build an airplane that any private pilot could buy, jump in and fly. No government mandated checkrides or endorsement. It did not work but that is another story. People will come to your place if you make it fun. What ever happened to the old "flying club" spirit. Has it died. Do people come out to the airport just because it is fun? Does anybody just simply jump into an airplane and fly off to the neighboring airport just to see if the sun came up as it did at home or is it too much like a business. Offer a service, collect the money and step aside so the next customer can belly up to the bar. I never see that any more. To get a bunch of mahogany bomber pilots involved with rules and procedures will just drive the customers away. They have already drove most fun flyers away with too many regulations. Maybe we need to simplify things. complished

[OW]

The advantage of 'the rules' is that they tend to make otherwise eager unwary adventurers, stop and reflect before plunging forward into something inadequatly prepared.

Where does it say that a Private Pilot, Single pilot, single engine, non-high performance licence, does not allow you to fly a twin engined aircraft? How many people try without training? If we didn't have a multi-engine rating, how many would try without training?

We can't answer that question any more than we can account for the differences in the way pilots are trained (or not trained as the case may be), but the idea that there is a "Rating" required, I believe will change the attitude of those considering certain activities.

From what I can remember of the weather on the day of the Canmore crash, I would not have gone flying where they did. (just my opinion).

I don't know the terrain in the area of the crash, so I'm not the best person to comment on that event. I can only go by the wind and other forcast weather.

When you fly at 20,000 feet or higher, it's only mountain flying when your engine/s quit.

What we obviously don't want is legislation that would prohibit us from flying near the mountains in aircraft not capable of maintaining altitude above the highest peak. Some guidlines that address minimum weather, and may include maximum wind speed for flight into the mountains. Also maybe we need to see a revision in what is referred to as mountainous regions (there is some pretty flat land involved in some of the existing regions). [maybe some of those Easterners don't know what real mountains look like].

[cyyz]

Well since obviously some of the mountain folks want to "one up" the others.

We should require "Sand Devil" ratings

and

East Coast ratings.

Without it you BC folks can stay on your side of the mountains.

Winter Survival Ratings for the Territory peoples and BC and Alberta.

Ditching in the Lakes and Ocean ratings.....

Any other "grand" ideas you want to create to screw everyone over with?

Paved runway ratings

Gravel runway ratings

short field ratings

50ft obstacle clearance ratings?

Rain ratings

IMC Ratings(not to be confused with IFR under VMC ratings that schools do)

Fatigue ratings

*end rant

You'll always run into some situation that you've never dealt with. You can "chance" it and try to learn from it or you can stay at home and never fly.

[hz2p]

Obviously, bigger government is better government. With that in mind, we really need the following endorsements:

Tailwheel
Nosewheel
Skiplane - fixed skiis
Skiplane - hydraulic wheel skiis
Skiplane - electric wheel skiis
Retractable Gear - Manual
Retractable Gear - Electrical
Retractable Gear - Hydraulic
Constant-speed Prop - non-Counter-weighted
Constant-speed Prop - Counter-weighted but non-feathering
Constant-speed Prop - Counter-weighted and feathering
Constant-speed Prop - two-blade
Constant-speed Prop - three-blade
Constant-speed Prop - four-blade
Constant-speed Prop - metal blade
Constant-speed Prop - composite blade
Wing Flaps -manual
Wing Flaps - electric
Wing Flaps - hydraulic
Cowl Flaps - manual
Cowl Flaps - hydraulic
Four Cylinder
Six Cylinder
Eight Cylinder
Twelve Cylinder
Lycoming
Teledyne Continental
Air-cooled Engine
Liquid-cooled Engine
Radial Engine (add a dozen categories here)
Carbureted
Fuel Injection
Turbo-charger
High-wing
Low-wing
Bi-plane
Tri-plane
Wheel Pants
Drum Brakes
Disk Brakes
Heel Brakes
Toe Brakes
Hand Brakes
Parking Brakes
Snow-covered paved runway
Ice-covered paved runway
Rain-covered paved runway
Grass runway
Gravel runway
Uphill runway
Downhill runway

My fingers are getting tired ...

Of course, the new pilots licences with room for all this crap are going to be 2 feet by 3 feet, which is an inconvenient size for carrying on board an aircraft, but when would Transport care about something practical?

Bring it on!!!

[ahramin]

You forgot:

Electronic ignition,
Hand propping,
Diesel,
Mid wing,
Adjsutable pitch prop,
Controllable pitch prop,
Fibreglass,
Fabric,
Metal, and
Color

[hz2p]

Obviously I need more training and endorsements!

And what about de-icing equipment? There must be at least eight or ten endorsements there.

Hot props, hot plates, boots, TKS, etc.

[ahramin]

Nice edit. But you missed electric vs hydraulic constant speed prop governors.

[wallypilot]

in response to oldtimer:

Quote: "Do people come out to the airport just because it is fun? Does anybody just simply jump into an airplane and fly off to the neighboring airport just to see if the sun came up as it did at home?"

Just yesterday, got to go up in a 1944 Beech Staggerwing in better than mint condition.....what a beautiful machine. what a blast. every control tower whose zone we crossed through asked for a low pass....

[ahramin]

Fly for fun?

I am getting ready to bid on a Luscombe 8A. No radios (no electrical system) so i will not be bothered by towers asking for fly-bys.

[OW]

Don't forget your tube and fabric endorsment.

[Shiny Side Up]

We almost don't need CD here anymore with the love for TC you can feel here.

Mountain checks and complex ratings would just be a waste of time and money, well don't speak too loudly transport might decide they need another cash cow. It would only raise costs for those of us bound to the rules and there would still be the idiots who with their own sense of invunlerability would venture off to do who knows what stupid activities in airplanes. All you can do is hope they don't take someone with them when they go.

[ahramin]

transport might decide they need another cash cow

Actually i find that TC is doing a reasonable in getting out of many areas that can be done better by the private sector. Recurrent training seminars comes to mind.

They still overcharge for what they do do, but several of their expensive travelling roadshows have gone the way of the dodo.

[Big Bird Anonymous]

Yes, we may feel TC is the dictatorship of the industry, but I for one will not employ a pilot unless he/she posess the experience that the reg's dictate. Though it may cost me front load expenses to abide by the myriad of bureaucracy, it's the back end savings in safety that makes the difference to the bottom line.

[Shiny Side Up]

transport might decide they need another cash cow

Actually i find that TC is doing a reasonable in getting out of many areas that can be done better by the private sector. Recurrent training seminars comes to mind.

They still overcharge for what they do do, but several of their expensive travelling roadshows have gone the way of the dodo.

No, they've just gotten out of doing the work portion of the roadshow but they still like to collect on the cash side of it. Licencing fees anyone?

[pika]

The complex aircraft is covered under a PPC or type rating. That's all we need.

[Cat Driver]

Shiny side up :

Do not make the mistake that I am anti TC.

Far from it, I have spent my career in the beliefe that regulation is needed and followed in aviation.

My dissatisfaction is with those within the body of the regulator who are corrupting our regulating system through self serving abuse of the system.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Cat

[scubasteve]

I was going to go for a "mountain checkout" today but it looks like tomorrow might be the day. I've done one flight with the local instructor in order to rent their aircraft and was told that one hour would be sufficient for me to rent and fly in the mountains solo. Either this FTU is worried about it or doesnt think its a huge deal or some other schools go way overboard with their mountain checks. I dont believe that it should be a rating or endorsement but I'm not going to take an a/c especially a single like a 172 into the mountains with out some sort of introduction.

[N2]

The only endorsement Transport Canada really cares about is cheque endorsement!