The UK

smokin_rivet · Post by **smokin_rivet** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:06 pm

My wife will be spending the next 6 years in the UK at university. It'd be real swell if I could carry on my career while i was there. What, if any, chances are there for a Canadian ATPL holder with 6 multi crew hours of working in the UK?

Flaps 1 Billion · Post by **Flaps 1 Billion** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:14 pm

gots to have the right to abode or an EU passport. JAA licences. 14 exams for the ATPL I think, 700hrs or so of groundschool, unless you have 1500tt. If you get another 494hrs multi crew you can get excempt from the Multi Crew Course, which a lot of companies look for. Need to do a CPL and IR ride too. Costs a few bucks but in the end it'll open the doors all over the world, but without that passport or right to work then it's useless.

smokin_rivet · Post by **smokin_rivet** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:13 am

ok, now assuming I can do all of that( aside for getting the full ATPL)..what are the prospects like?

Flaps 1 Billion · Post by **Flaps 1 Billion** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:56 am

I think they're better there than here as far as getting something other than a piston job with lower time. I'm not there but just from talking to others there are a lot of pilots looking for work with low time, 300tt, but they seem to be much more willing to cough up for a type rating. Look on pprune.com and you'll find a lot of people talking about it. Companies like Ryanair, EasyJet, Flybe will take low time people porviding you pay for the type rating, good old low cost carriers. If you've got say 1000tt and have been working then I think you'll be ahead of the game. What kind of time do you have?

av8tor_assrope · Post by **av8tor_assrope** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:52 pm

i'm not to sure about flybe because they're connected to oxford aviation under some modular first officer plan....but easyjet doesn't require you to pay for your type...your just bonded for 5 years. loan comes out in your name and they make the payments for ya every month at pretty much regular pay.....on the basis that you don't quit. . ryanair is a different animal. ryanair makes you "self sponsor" yourself if you have nothing but the bare minimum frozen atpl. if you have 500 hrs in a 2 crew aircraft they only bond your ass. europe is a funny animal. when i was there in the summer it seemed to be there were 3 groups of low timers. the 250 hr dudes who got lucky and landed RHS in the 737 without dishing out a dime.......the ones that payed their way into the RHS. and the 250 hr guys who were turning down caravan, pc-12, king air, beech 1900..yadada jobs and were holding out for a jet job. i kid you not. one guy in switzerland turned down a 1900 job!!!!!!!!!!

just check out pprune and read about people bitching.

cheers

smokin_rivet · Post by **smokin_rivet** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:07 pm

Thanks for the insight. This is all proving to be very usefull.

Cheers

McPhoo · Post by **McPhoo** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:11 pm

K, I then need something cleared up as well. The whole two crew thing. I fly a King Air B200 which normally is certified as a single pilot airplane. Ours however, has never had an autopilot and therefore requires two crew for IFR. Which is all we do. We opertate with SOP's and such. Would this count as two crew? Cause if it does I am thinking of giving the UK a go. I can get the Right of Abode. What do you think?

Cap'n P8 · Post by **Cap'n P8** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:25 pm

As far as I know the aircraft has to require 2MFC as part of its type certificate, so you might be S.O.L.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:37 pm

not necessarily so. get a letter from your CP stating the requirement for 2 crew, copy the AOC stating requirement for 2 crew, and get a copy of the CARS stating that you need to crew if there is no AP and you should be okay. cover your ass with all documentatin possible, and confirm with the training organization over there and you should be golden. i have heard of others in your situation getting the 500 MC credit. good luck.

McPhoo · Post by **McPhoo** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:24 pm

Well that really is good news. I will start getting my ducks lined up then. I had been waiting to move on from the B200 to something that more formally required two crew like a dash or something. From your comments maybe I can get on with things. Worth trying for sure. Thanks for the feed back.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:36 pm

How do you get the right to abode? I'm Canadian through and through...but how could I work in the UK aside from marrying into it?

RJ

McPhoo · Post by **McPhoo** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:40 pm

I married - but long before I ever got into aviation. Call it luck or fate but it's all good! My wife's mother was born and raised in the UK. As long as you have a Grandparent that was British you are good to go. My wife will get the Right of Abode first then I will apply through her. I little hassle but perhaps well worth it. Besides, all her family is still over there and it would be nice to live there for awile methinks.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:53 pm

Hey McPhoo,

One of my grandparents grew-up in Holland, but neither of my parents chased the citizenship. Both my parents are canadian. Do you think there is any possibility of myself getting the right of abode?

How could I go about it?
RJ

Flaps 1 Billion · Post by **Flaps 1 Billion** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:27 pm

Try searching for the British High Commission in Ottawa, a phone call will probably be best as the info on the website, sorry I don't have it, isn't exactly very thorough. I was born there myself, my wife will have to apply for a right to abode through me, have a sponsor other than myself then will be eligible for citizenship after living in Britain for several years but can work in the meantime. If your wife has the right to abode but not a citizen I don't know how it works, you might wanna chat with someone about that one. I believe 2 generations is max, so if you're grandparents were Euros citizens, not just living there, then you should be able to get a Euro, and that'll be good to work anywhere in the union. I think that's what the deal is but like I said, call first before you put down any money or bother with the work and make sure you can do it. Have fun.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:55 pm

i also have the right of abode, and got it because my mother was born in the UK. I have no idea about holland. it really differs from country to country. in germany, if you give up your own citizenship, in favour of another (eg canadian), even if you were born in germany, it is very difficult to get it back. yet in the UK, if you were born there, you will always have citizenship with your birth certificate.

McPhoo · Post by **McPhoo** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:30 am

Yeah Jeremy, like the other posters said, I don't know about Holland. Every country is unique. As far as Britain goes, there are some web sites that the gov keeps. I had them all book marked until my pc crashed a while back. Sorry. I'd pass them along if I could. My sister-in-law just got her Right of Abode. All it took for her was a copy of her Mothers birth cert. and the application and 250 bucks. 6 weeks later bingo. Seemed fairly straight forward. She's off to work in the UK as a nurse this month. Maybe Holland calls the right of abode thingy something else. Dig around on the net and I think a phone call or two would be well worth the holding time. Figure on needing a copy of something to prove your grandparents birthplace and citizenship though. That might be tough. Good luck.

Puddle Jumper · Post by **Puddle Jumper** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:48 pm

Make sure you get the math right on all your finances before go people!

You're going to need a fair amount of cash to take care of all the medicals, exams, licences, ratings etc. You also need think about somewhere to live while you're potentially out of work!

Trust me, as a Brit living in your big beautiful country, I think you're going to have a big shock at the cost of flying and living in the UK - then again, you might be loaded!

The links below should give you an idea of some of the costs involved.

Have fun!

Class one initial issue medical http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_Med_Ae ... n-2006.pdf
I think the initial medical can still only be done by the CAA doc at Gatwick.

Bristol Groundschool http://www.bristol.gs/index.php
A very helpful company. If you look through this site carefully, they have info on converting foreign licences.

CAA CPL/ATPL examinations http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_S ... rof_06.pdf

Airways Flight Training, Exeter http://www.airwaysflighttraining.co.uk/
In my opinion, one of the best flight training providers in the UK

Housing (London) http://www.outlookproperty.com/

Housing (SW England) http://www.palmersnell.co.uk/

Housing (Accross UK) http://www.connells.co.uk/search.asp

blue_side_up · Post by **blue_side_up** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:41 am

McPhoo,

Your B200 time definitely qualifies you for the MCC credit, unless they've changed the rules (which has been known to happen, hahaha).
I got the MCC credit for my 800hrs B100 time. I wrote a letter and had it signed by my ex-CP, produced it with my logbook (and other bits of paper) when the UK CAA went to peruse my mountain of (expensive) certificates/medical/documents/licences. 1 week later, hey, UK ATPL (later converted to JAR ATPL).
I spread the conversion (and more importantly, cost) over a period of 2+1/2yrs.
Never looked back with the flying opportunities, and know at least 5 other Canucks who had a similar background and have also converted, who have not looked back either. I think we all agree we'd rather be flying in the frozen homeland, but perhaps one day..... The opportunites in Europe are too enticing at the moment, and 2 of the guys are in career airlines so probably will never fly (based) in Canada again.
Things seem to be moving pretty quick in Canada so the benefits may not be quite so alluring at the moment.

Puddle Jumper · Post by **Puddle Jumper** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:32 am

blue_side_up wrote: 1 week later, hey, UK ATPL (later converted to JAR ATPL).

I’m no expert, but I'm sure this route is no longer available. I don't think the UK CAA issue UK ATPL's any more, only JAR! A Canadian friend of mine had 727 hours up the ying yang, and he still had to get the medical, pass all the exams, a CPL skill test and the IR skill test – not sure about the MCC!

As I said, check the Bristol Groundschool site. They’re the experts and have loads of useful info. They’re also very helpful if you decide to contact them. I know they have a link on their web site to a UK CAA form; you send the form to the UK CAA, and the CAA asses your multi crew hours on an individual basis.

Good luck, I know where I’d rather be living!

McPhoo · Post by **McPhoo** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:08 pm

Interesting posts. Thanks for the encouragement B_S_U. Might work after all. And thanks for the links Puddle jumper. YOu are so right about living in Canada though. That is the only thing that would keep me here. I have lived abroad and while it is exciting in some ways nothin beats the home land. Great tips all around though. Wil have to spend some time digging into the particulars now.

blue_side_up · Post by **blue_side_up** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:00 am

Puddle Jumper,

Maybe I could have been less ambiguous...

I was only referring to the MCC requirement/waiver being easy. I (and all others I know, except those with +1500hrs PIC on a/c over 20,000kgs, which is another story) had to do all 14 written exams, 2 flight tests, and the initial JAR medical. I didn't mean to imply that you could walk in with your MCC credit, and some cash, and get the license. If only it were that easy!

You are absolutely correct, you no longer get a UK ATPL. It's now a UK-issued JAR ATPL. As far as I'm aware the conversion requirements are similar to the old UK conversion. If you have a Cdn ATPL you have to do the same things as before (through an approved school, who may try to add additional requirements onto the conversion).

If someone didn't mention it previously, the UK CAA website can be pretty useful. Although they charge you your first born child for their services, I've found them very helpful with direct questions. You can call them during certain hours and pester them for free (the only free thing they offer?).

http://www.srg.caa.co.uk and go to the 'Personnel Licensing' link.

The UK

The UK

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