Powell River CYPW accident

V1 · Post by V1 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:55 am

I am in complete and utter shock. I know Orca ( a newer company) was striving on safety, and had great planes and crew.
Has there ever been so many crashes out of one airport in a year ever before?
I am speechless.
Everyone take care of yourselves.
My thoughts are with the family and long term partner of the deceased.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:38 am

crap this has been a bad stretch the last year or so out here on the left coast. Sympathies and condolences to friends and family.

glider guru · Post by **glider guru** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:45 pm

anybody know those involved please pm me right quick.

gonefishin' · Post by **gonefishin'** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:15 pm

Powell River plane crash victim ID'd
Mar, 09 2006 - 1:40 PM

VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - The man killed in yesterday's plane crash at the Powell River airport was 27-year old Jason Ouellet.
He was the co-pilot of the Piper Navajo that skidded off the runway during landing.
The 29-year old pilot, Michael Peterson, was airlifted to Vancouver with non-life-threatening injuries.

Very, Very Sad!!! J was a great guy, flew with him many, many times.

Godspeed my friend...

glider guru · Post by **glider guru** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:32 pm

My deepest sympathies and condolences to all friends and family.

Over the Horn · Post by **Over the Horn** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:30 pm

My condolences to the family's & Orca.

Orca's one of the good guys on the coast with clean equip. hopefully they can recover from this.

ZBB118.10 · Post by **ZBB118.10** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:32 pm

Very, Very Sad!!! J was a great guy, flew with him many, many times.

Very true words. Yet another tragic day for west coast aviation and another brother lost. A kind, gentle and funny guy who will be missed by all. Fly free and fly far Jason...

ils09 · Post by **ils09** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:39 pm

Its a sad sad day!.

N2 · Post by N2 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:49 pm

Seems to be far too much of this type of thing lately.

airliner · Post by **airliner** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:57 pm

just watched on CH tv. they are linking the plane to Navair. They said it was registered to navair until late today. Aside from that the plane was reported to be running fine and this accident is more so weather related.
Got to love the media taking lone last kick at the dead horse.

zero 2 · Post by **zero 2** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:00 pm

News reported they did a downwind landing with 30mph tailwind.

METAR and SPECIAL seem to indicate the plane ended up past the button of 27 and the winds were 30022G36 knots...am I reading this correctly or does this indicate a bad decision.

A tough year on the coast indeed.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:59 pm

CYPW 09 has a 3* upslope and that's also the IFR approach runway so most guys will accept a bit of a tailwind...

Especially when it's wet/snowy stopping downhill on 27 can be tough... That must be what they were thinking? Better put it on the button if you're going in with 30 at your back...

Get better quick Mike and condolences to all involved...

boeingboy · Post by **boeingboy** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:14 pm

Except that eyewitnesses are saying that they didn't touch down untill they were halfway or more down the runway.

V1CUT · Post by **V1CUT** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:07 am

don't you think you're picking away at this one a little to early like a bunch of raven's

to all that are involved we are thinking of ya!

to the one that will get better, the blue sky is still their to conquer, to the one who has departed you can sit in my left seat anytime!

V

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:21 am

Not meaning to pick - just saying why they may have accepted that much of a tailwind...

*'Ho-Driver* · Post by ***'Ho-Driver*** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:32 am

Hello all,

Mike's in tough shape. Two broken feet, broken back, serious head injuries. In stable, critical condition.

Jason was a great guy, flew with him and joked around many mornings and nights...My condolences to his family and fiancee.

Godspeed Jason.

Stay Strong Mike.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:58 am

Nothing ever really changes.

The same basic problems remain, young pilots get killed and maimed and we in aviation are left to wonder why these things keep happening.

By the time the accident report is released no one remembers what accident it even was.

So to speculate is normal and understandable.

Cat

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:28 am

Cat Driver wrote:
So to speculate is normal and understandable.

Cat

There's a strong difference between questioning of circumstances or, speculation, versus, the finger pointing that comes with these accident posts sometimes. Questioning goes in the manner of "I wonder if the crew were under any pressure to get in that day" or "I wonder how that tailwind figured into the approach, what would I do with the same situation?". Whereas the low class, ill-timed fingerpointing goes like this: "I heard ABC always pushes their crews, this is so typical, I wouldn't have let that happen to me" . The latter example is what usually makes me irrate during these posts.

Speculation in the sense that Cat suggests is fine: To meditate on a subject; reflect.
To engage in a course of reasoning often based on inconclusive evidence (dictionary stuff).

Of course...it's a strong learning tool for the rest of us. Take that metar along with the set of circumstances, and put it in your mental flight bag for the next time you are flying. Maybe one of us will get to recognize the same situation 10 seconds earlier and rectify it. I don't need to read a bunch of ill-informed speculation and any "what I would have dones". Just to get that out there before it starts to fly in.

I'm sad that we have lost another well-qualified individual from our industry, from what I read here, he was a good person and well liked.

Keep it safe up there...

heeypilot · Post by **heeypilot** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:34 pm

in a hoe, after you get the latest wx from comox terminal and they clear you out of controlled airspace, i'd say a good 20 minutes can elapse until you see the runway.. at minimums it's hard to see the windsock, and if the wx changed as fast as i understand that it did, i can see how easy it can be to get yourself in trouble.. without a ground speed read out on a GPS things can turn ugly fast.

Coast-dog · Post by **Coast-dog** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:38 pm

twotter wrote:I wish these courier companies would learn that no bag is worth the lives of the crews flying the airplanes. These young, low time guys/girls don't need to be pressured into making bad decisions.

Never, that I can recall right now, was I pressured into getting a bag where it was slated to go. The pressure was always in my own mind, knowing that the boss would be ticked off if the freight didn't get there. I guess I'm lucky that at the time I didn't have to deal with any a**hole boss in those situations.

As typically young, naive individuals starting out in the working world of aviation it's very easy to fall prey to the influence of those who are supposed to know better.

To all the newbies that have just recently got their wings, remember: It's far better to get chewed out by the boss that to end up ruining the rest of your life. We as pilots are paid to get the cargo to destination, safely, in one piece. Don't be over-cautious, just use all your knowledge and training to accomplish the mission if it's at all possible. That's what we're paid to do.

If your a**hole boss decides to fire your butt for refusing a dangerous trip, just hope and pray that the next pilot has the same balls as you. I know it's different when you're living on $250 a week but don't let that keep you from making decisions that'll keep you alive to eat KD; it will get better, eventually, hopefully...

Condolences to Jason's family and best of luck to Mike; speedy recovery.

pinkus · Post by **pinkus** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:47 pm

I knew Jason way back.

All my thoughts go to his friends and family.

My deepest sympathies.

Pinkus

gorgesailor · Post by **gorgesailor** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:51 pm

My thoughts are with the families of both pilots. I wish you a speedy recovery Mikey - wish I could be out there to give support.

To all others reading the posts, fly safe, and respect and support your fellow pilot coworkers. You never know when around the corner you will have lost another present or past coworker to the industry.

My condolences to both families and loved ones...

goldeneagle · Post by **goldeneagle** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:09 pm

Cat Driver wrote: So to speculate is normal and understandable.

Cat

Agreed, everybody does it, happens all the time out at the airports. Especially in the few days after an incident, there's a lot of folks trying to figure out or understand how the incident can happen. We've got very few facts, and those available tend to point to possible scenarios, and it's sooooo easy to jump to conclusions, a lot of people are doing that, wether they say so out loud or not. People seem to forget, accidents are a result of a chain of events, it's rarely/never a single event or judgement call that results in an accident.

The accident occurred in Powell River. It was a very windy day, quite typical west coast stuff for this time of year. Front moving thru, with a shift from southeast to northwest at some point in the day. Northwest started out pretty brisk, in the 30 knot range, and here on the waterfront in vancouver, we did see 50knots with substantially higher gusts coming in later that evening. Everybody who has flown the west coast for any number of years recognizes this pattern, we've seen it lots of times, same old story over and over. Those in thier first year or two on the coast, well, they learn from it.

Powell River can be a tough little place to get in and out of when it's windy. The runway is sitting on top of a hill, it's got quite an upslope, and the surrounding terrain pretty much guarantees you are going to have to deal with some 'interesting' turbulence, and probably some standing waves on the arrival. On a windy day, it's one of those places where you really have to dust off the hand-eye co-ordination, and execute on a game plan to successfully land. I'll be the first to admit, I've pulled out and gone back to try again there a number of times over the years.

As the speculation is running rampant, and everybody seems to be drawing the same conclusion, let me tell a little story, a true story, about a fresh young commercial pilot doing his first year on the west coast (me). The day in question was pretty much exactly the same as what we had the other day here, front arriving, south coast still blowing southeast, north coast had the westerlies. I took off out of nanaimo in a 206 with 5 passengers, headed to savory island (about 10 miles from powell river). We were getting a real good push, and I was yakking on the radio with a friend, also a fresh young commercial pilot at the time, turns out he too was headed to Savory, with a full load of pax, he was inbound from CYVR. Sooo, it was inevitable, a bet was made, and last guy on the ground was gonna be buying the first round that evening. I snuck up a little more power, and race was on.

All the way up, we were both watching the water, southeast at 20+ knots very evident from the waves. So, approaching Savory, it was a no brainer, strait into a downwind left for an eastbound landing. buddy got there about a minute and a half ahead of me, so, we ended up with a 2 mile spacing on final. The real point here, we were still talking on the radio, and the bet was primary focus in our minds. i watched the cessna ahead landing a little long, but it got stopped, and he did indeed get off the runway just in time, i was about 1/4 mile on final when he cleared. At that point I started to focus on the descent into the runway, the approach was thru a cut in the trees, so it gets narrow, you gotta watch it a bit. The airplane 'felt funny', but, it was under control, I was on target to touch down in the first 300 feet, and wtf, i was a 1000 hour pilot, I knew it all, could handle anything. To say the landing was scary is an understatement, the plane kept floating and floating, and eventually i did get it pasted onto the ground more than halfway down, but, it was a short strip. Thankfully, it was soft sand, and I managed to get stopped about 100 feet before the end, and I taxiied into the wide spot where we both offloaded passenger. both of us, very professional, strait face and smiling as we offloaded pax.

Once the pax were gone, it became apparent my buddy was as shook up as I was, both of us sat down on a stump and asked 'wtf happened on that landing'. A good look at the windsock told the story, wind on the strip was out of the west at 25+. The front had just passed. Both of us went into that landing thinking 'southeast 25+' and neither of us thought to look down and double check the waves under us on short final. On the east side of the isand, the waves were still rolling in from the east, but on the west, they were breaking in from the west, and this island is less than a mile in width. To this day, when folks start telling 'scary flying' stories, my buddy and I will look at each other and just say 'savory'. Shit happened, we got lucky, we learned from it. I've never landed a plane again since then without double checking wind on short final. Water, leaves, grass, smoke, anything that will give me a clue to what the wind is RIGHT NOW.

I'm not going to do much speculating about what happened, but, try provide a little perspective. The metars and other reports pretty much tell us the plane landed downwind, with a hell of a wind. In hindsight, that was a mistake. Why did they do it, I dont know. Were there mitigating reasons, or was it just a poor judgement call, again, I dont know. What i do know is, I've done it and got a away with it. I know how easily it can happen, and i know why it can happen in that area.

Today, buddy and I are still very good friends, and we both operate our own business. A couple years back, I was berating a new employee for doing something I viewed as 'stupid', and buddy was listening. He poked me in the arm, and just said one word 'savory'. I got the message lound and clear, and changed my tone completely. Rather than berate the employee (new to the job, new to the industry) about what they did, instead, I sat down and started asking 'what have we learned from this...'.

If you have been in this business full time flying for more than a couple years, and say 'I've never done that', i'm calling you a liar strait up, you got away with it, and hopefully learned from it. If you haven't been in the biz that long, and say 'I've never done that', dont forget to qualify the statement with 'yet'.

The bottom line, there was an accident. Powell River is a special case, it provides lots of 'local knowledge' reasons to make decisions that seem 'funny' from the outside, especially if you have never been there on a real windy day. That makes for some juicy speculation. We know the final result, airplane off the end, tragic results. We know how it got there, we dont know why. Clapped out 'ho doesn't carry a data or voice recorder, we aren't going to get any insight from there. The folks that disect broken airplanes here on the west coast seem to have a backlog of work, gonna be a long time before we get any hard insight from them.

Speculate away folks, it happens every time. If you want first hand insight to some of the local issues, ask the pasco boys, they have lots. If you want to get judgemental, just remember the golden rule. 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.

I'll speculate, and I'll guess with the rest of you, but, I wont pass judgement. The one thing i can say with certainty, whatever happened, I've been there, and done that, made the same mistakes, just was lucky enough to get away with it, turn them into learning experiences instead of 'accident history'.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:26 pm

Joe:

Could you "sticky" the above post by goldeneagle, he saved me writing basically the same thing..

Cat

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:33 pm

Goldeneagle, very, very, well said. In aviation we write the test first, then learn the lesson afterwards. Thankfully, many of us walk away from close calls with that sick feeling in the pit of your stomach, thinking man that was dumb. The result, a bad memory, and another brick has been added to the experience wall. But not all are as fortunate, and a terrible incident occurs. Our thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of the young men involved.