noobie with questions
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
Just as long as you can pay the ongoing expenses of insurance and maintenance. I looked into buying a float plane a couple of years ago, and due to my inexperience (I had 1300 hours of which only 7 was on floats) my insurance quote was $8000 for bare bones coverage. Then add the cost for annual inspections, Airworthiness Directives (basically like factory recalls on cars, except you foot the bill, not the manufacturer), unexpected maintenance etc, and your annual costs are fairly substantial. However, having been an aircraft owner I must say it is very nice to be able to go to the hangar, open the door and blast off any time you want....
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wallypilot
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that's actually not a bad way to start out. get onto an amphibian ultralight. however, i believe (i could be wrong, as my knowledge of the regs in this area is several years out of date) you do need a license for the ultralights. different from full PPL, though. another poster, i am sure will be able to quote you the regs verbatim.
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Over the Horn
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Forget the ultralight get your ppl and fly real planes, as a ppl guy time will build slowly however if you nead experiance try joining a local flying club, or purchasing a training plane like a Taylorcraft, Champ, Canuck (with after market floats the factory one suck) or Citabia on floats, build your hrs on that (cheaper insurance than a maule or 185, and planes retain their value unlike cars).
In the Edmonton area there are flying schools at Cooking Lake (this seams to be were most of the float planes are in the Edmonton area) there might be one that offers float training as you do your ppl (thus building hrs for cheaper insurance) if you only want a ppl this is a great way to go you can do almost all your training on floats. good luck and remember ultralights are for guys that couldn't fly real planes!
In the Edmonton area there are flying schools at Cooking Lake (this seams to be were most of the float planes are in the Edmonton area) there might be one that offers float training as you do your ppl (thus building hrs for cheaper insurance) if you only want a ppl this is a great way to go you can do almost all your training on floats. good luck and remember ultralights are for guys that couldn't fly real planes!
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Over the Horn
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Hey Colin
Check out these advanced Ultra Lights....most of them will out-perform a Cessna 150/152 and give a Cessna 172 a run for it's money. Quite a bit cheaper also. You can get some with floats
http://ultravia.ca/Floatplane.htm
http://www.airsportaviation.com/
Cheers....
A
Check out these advanced Ultra Lights....most of them will out-perform a Cessna 150/152 and give a Cessna 172 a run for it's money. Quite a bit cheaper also. You can get some with floats
http://ultravia.ca/Floatplane.htm
http://www.airsportaviation.com/
Cheers....
A
A pilot with experience should never have to answer to a pilot with only a theory
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Dust Devil
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Man don't listen to them. everyone always wants to put a negative spin on things. It doesn't take a superhero to fly an airplane. As much as people want to make this stuff seem harder than it is. I wouldn't go the route of an ultralight. I've flown them and your likely gonna find yourself sitting on the ground more often then you will be flying. There is nothin risky about owning an airplane. if it doesn't work out for you you can always sell the bird and get your money back. in fact you may make some dough as airplanes typically appreciate. Also insurance may not be that bad as long as you just get liability insurance. nothin says you have to insure the airplane itself, unless you have a bank loan. then you'll have to insure the hull. get a 172 or something like that. you won't be disappointed and you'll have alot of fun.Colin wrote:yah, i already found out that i will need one, but we are so far pretty sure this is the easiest way to go. thanks everyone for your help.
//=S=//
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
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Justwannafly
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@Colin: Its not that its risky; well it is, but only/mostly to a new pilot. What they are saying is that you should learn how to fly, & then maybe/definitly do some mountain training B4 you try that trip.... Flying in the mountains has a lot of extra considerations....wind/weather/altitude/maneuvering area ect
BUT once you get there... its DEFINITLY worth all the work
BUT once you get there... its DEFINITLY worth all the work
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TorontoGuy
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I don't think anyone believes you are stupid. You did say you knew virtually nothing about all this, so most posters are just talking to you in that way and trying to make sure you examine all the angles and options before committing yourself to a quarter of a million dollars (don't forget the taxes!).Colin wrote:...you guys are making it sound like im stupid for wanting to fly, i dont understand.....why say good luck? is it next to impossible to get a license or something?
....
I wouldn't shut out a good 185 or 206 because they are aging. There are a lot of very good aircraft out there and having a comprehensive inspection done before the funds changes hands. Don't limit yourself to acquiring a float plane. Find the right aircraft then add the float or amphib equipment later.
There is no rocket science to operating an aircraft safely. Know your limitations, exercise appropriate caution and plan your flights well.
You can also pick up a lot by talking to the old timers around flying schools or clubs etc.
My vote is for the 185 on amphib floats
Cheers!
There is no rocket science to operating an aircraft safely. Know your limitations, exercise appropriate caution and plan your flights well.
You can also pick up a lot by talking to the old timers around flying schools or clubs etc.
My vote is for the 185 on amphib floats
Cheers!
At first glance an ultralight looks like an option, they are cheaper to fly and require less training and you can buy one new. If you were looking to do mostly local hobby flying I would consider it.
I would not advise you to take any ultralight across the Rocky Mountains.
In general they are too limited by winds and low power. They will post some impressive performance numbers but the low empty weight of the ultralight makes for very poor flying in windy conditions.
Given than you have a good budget I would encourage both you and your dad to do the full private pilots licence. By training on your own airplane you will save rental money and allow you to get more comfortable with your own airplane. I would recommend a 182, on wheels first. Then you can add floats.
The guy doing the 182 float plane kits is in cooking lake.
http://www.seaplaneswest.com/ He normally has a couple of aircraft for sale.
I would not advise you to take any ultralight across the Rocky Mountains.
In general they are too limited by winds and low power. They will post some impressive performance numbers but the low empty weight of the ultralight makes for very poor flying in windy conditions.
Given than you have a good budget I would encourage both you and your dad to do the full private pilots licence. By training on your own airplane you will save rental money and allow you to get more comfortable with your own airplane. I would recommend a 182, on wheels first. Then you can add floats.
The guy doing the 182 float plane kits is in cooking lake.
http://www.seaplaneswest.com/ He normally has a couple of aircraft for sale.
One word: WILGA
http://www.sealandaviation.com/sealand-eads.htm
They've got a nice leather interior. A real clean looking maching. IO-540 burning about 10-11 gph. Wheel or float equipt. Start on wheels...do all your training, then throw a set of floats under it.
Check'em out. They should be all over the web as well. Give it a google.
Not too sure of their price though.
RJ
http://www.sealandaviation.com/sealand-eads.htm
They've got a nice leather interior. A real clean looking maching. IO-540 burning about 10-11 gph. Wheel or float equipt. Start on wheels...do all your training, then throw a set of floats under it.
Check'em out. They should be all over the web as well. Give it a google.
Not too sure of their price though.
RJ
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co-joe
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You don't need a license to fly an Ultralight, just a rating, the difference is that you don't do a flight test with Transport Canada, you just show an instructor that you are ready and off ya go. And for the ultralight on pontoons you don't need a sea plane rating.
Seriously here Colin, pay good money for good training, and get experience under your belt before you go;
a) float flying, and
b) mountain flying.
These are two of the most fun types of flying, but definitely two of the most dangerous as well. Okay mayby not inherrintly dangerous...just totally unforgiving of mistakes in judgement.
CJ
Seriously here Colin, pay good money for good training, and get experience under your belt before you go;
a) float flying, and
b) mountain flying.
These are two of the most fun types of flying, but definitely two of the most dangerous as well. Okay mayby not inherrintly dangerous...just totally unforgiving of mistakes in judgement.
CJ
Lots and lots of people get private licenses and buy aircraft and live happily ever after. The secret is to get in with a group of people who have experience and try and absorb everything you can. Then fly as much as you can. Experience (hours) counts for everything here. If you fly often, you will stay current and and not need to re-learn every time you go out. Flying is not like driving, as you must continuously hone your decision-making skills.
What's got the residents exercised here is your plan of buying a float plane and then travelling some very difficult terrain. Float flying is wonderful, but it takes lots of practice for the changing conditions that you will encounter, and the terrain between Edmonchuck and the Shuswap are challenging UNLESS the wind is light and the weather is great. In my opinion, float flying is the best part of recreational aviation.
Also, float planes are arguably the most expensive aircraft to operate. If you insist, for a first plane, I would recommend a used (old, even. Some of the best are 50 years old!) Cessna 180. Enough power to haul 4 people, not too hard on fuel, relatively easy to repair, and good reliable engines (and GREAT resale). If you make the next step to a 185, you will use way more fuel and your maintenance costs will increase a lot. Also 3-blade props are pretty much a necessity on a 185 if you are flying out of anywhere civilized (less noise). And if you must have wheels where you are, amphibious gear is very expensive and needs lots of maintenance and makes your payload/performance suffer.
New planes are nice, but some of the best ones are not made anymore, so don't think of a 'plane like you would a car - the maintenance procedures on a 'plane pretty much keep them like-new, but not cosmetically, of course.
For whoever suggested a Beav, they are about $325,000 without floats, last I looked.
Flying is a hoot, and you will be hooked if you start. A lot of being an aviator is about knowing your own limits. Anyone can drive an airplane, but as . says, its all about knowing when to say NO.
Get started! Its great out there, and to do all this with your family is golden.
What's got the residents exercised here is your plan of buying a float plane and then travelling some very difficult terrain. Float flying is wonderful, but it takes lots of practice for the changing conditions that you will encounter, and the terrain between Edmonchuck and the Shuswap are challenging UNLESS the wind is light and the weather is great. In my opinion, float flying is the best part of recreational aviation.
Also, float planes are arguably the most expensive aircraft to operate. If you insist, for a first plane, I would recommend a used (old, even. Some of the best are 50 years old!) Cessna 180. Enough power to haul 4 people, not too hard on fuel, relatively easy to repair, and good reliable engines (and GREAT resale). If you make the next step to a 185, you will use way more fuel and your maintenance costs will increase a lot. Also 3-blade props are pretty much a necessity on a 185 if you are flying out of anywhere civilized (less noise). And if you must have wheels where you are, amphibious gear is very expensive and needs lots of maintenance and makes your payload/performance suffer.
New planes are nice, but some of the best ones are not made anymore, so don't think of a 'plane like you would a car - the maintenance procedures on a 'plane pretty much keep them like-new, but not cosmetically, of course.
For whoever suggested a Beav, they are about $325,000 without floats, last I looked.
Flying is a hoot, and you will be hooked if you start. A lot of being an aviator is about knowing your own limits. Anyone can drive an airplane, but as . says, its all about knowing when to say NO.
Get started! Its great out there, and to do all this with your family is golden.
Colin,
You should consider the Murphy Rebel. It is 3 place, low maintenance, and relatively cheao to get into. It is a homebuilt however, but a well built one will be little different than a factory plane. I certainly wouldn't be set on a new plane. First you won't meet your budget, secondly, a plane is like a house; you do routine repairs and maintenance and it will last a long time.
I would recommend a Maule. Cheap, fast, good STOL, great airplane. Keep in mind too that an aircraft needs a float kit to be put on floats. You can't just bolt floats to any plane. Some 206's and 185's don't have float kits installed. Adding an after market float kit, will set you back tens of thousends of dollars. The Diamond will never be a floatplane because it was not designed for that purpose.
In regards to people assuming your stupid, I think people are just looking out for you. Aviation is general is very unforgiving. Add float flying, a new pilot, and mountains and you have a recipe for a lot of heartache. That is why you will find the insurance to be very pricey for you. If you look back on this forum, you will find a fair amount of floatplane crashes in the past year. Many of these were flown by professional pilots with many, many hours. The last thing we would want is to read about you on this forum after a crash. Again, no one is saying your stupid, or will be a bad pilot, but anyone with little experience needs to have a level head and be very conservative when planning to do the kind of flying you're planning. It would not be the first time someone with enough money for a really nice airplane, but lacking the experience to handle the aircraft would have an accident. If you want proof of that fact, read up on the history of the Bonanza or MU2. They were great planes, but a lot of inexperienced people killed themselves in them. Think of a 16 year old behind the wheel of a Ferrari - it's a similar situation.
Anyways, best of luck with your decision. You will have a great time flying floats, as long as your careful. Wish you the best.
You should consider the Murphy Rebel. It is 3 place, low maintenance, and relatively cheao to get into. It is a homebuilt however, but a well built one will be little different than a factory plane. I certainly wouldn't be set on a new plane. First you won't meet your budget, secondly, a plane is like a house; you do routine repairs and maintenance and it will last a long time.
I would recommend a Maule. Cheap, fast, good STOL, great airplane. Keep in mind too that an aircraft needs a float kit to be put on floats. You can't just bolt floats to any plane. Some 206's and 185's don't have float kits installed. Adding an after market float kit, will set you back tens of thousends of dollars. The Diamond will never be a floatplane because it was not designed for that purpose.
In regards to people assuming your stupid, I think people are just looking out for you. Aviation is general is very unforgiving. Add float flying, a new pilot, and mountains and you have a recipe for a lot of heartache. That is why you will find the insurance to be very pricey for you. If you look back on this forum, you will find a fair amount of floatplane crashes in the past year. Many of these were flown by professional pilots with many, many hours. The last thing we would want is to read about you on this forum after a crash. Again, no one is saying your stupid, or will be a bad pilot, but anyone with little experience needs to have a level head and be very conservative when planning to do the kind of flying you're planning. It would not be the first time someone with enough money for a really nice airplane, but lacking the experience to handle the aircraft would have an accident. If you want proof of that fact, read up on the history of the Bonanza or MU2. They were great planes, but a lot of inexperienced people killed themselves in them. Think of a 16 year old behind the wheel of a Ferrari - it's a similar situation.
Anyways, best of luck with your decision. You will have a great time flying floats, as long as your careful. Wish you the best.
Hey if you are in Edmonton go see Burt Thomas at Thomas aviation, north west corner of city centre I think it's building #38? big green building. He is a cessna dealer and sells used also one of the biggest AMO's around(AMO's are the guys who take care of the plane for ya) so even if you don't buy from him he can educate you on new and used and what to look for.
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co-joe
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If you don't listen to me, listen to Bede, and Xsbank. Very wise words to heed.
Keep us posted Colin, I'm interested to hear how the hunt goes, let us know of any more questions on the way, never ever be afraid to ask. If you turn shy, send PM's with direct questions we'll try to answer as soon as we can.
A word on pilot decision making, I have 3000 hours but only 5 on floats and I wouldn't set off solo to the BC mountains in a float plane without some serious training under my belt or the accompaniment of someone who knows sea plane flying sitting next to me.
Do it, but do it right.
CJ
Keep us posted Colin, I'm interested to hear how the hunt goes, let us know of any more questions on the way, never ever be afraid to ask. If you turn shy, send PM's with direct questions we'll try to answer as soon as we can.
A word on pilot decision making, I have 3000 hours but only 5 on floats and I wouldn't set off solo to the BC mountains in a float plane without some serious training under my belt or the accompaniment of someone who knows sea plane flying sitting next to me.
Do it, but do it right.
CJ
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Justwannafly
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agreed.......A word on pilot decision making, I have 3000 hours but only 5 on floats and I wouldn't set off solo to the BC mountains in a float plane without some serious training under my belt or the accompaniment of someone who knows sea plane flying sitting next to me.
Money is not an issue? Hmmm. Ok how about time? You'd better be willing to put alot of time and hard work into this if you're going to be able to do it safely. Seems like maybe alot of work just to be able to get to a cabin a little faster.
Why not get your licence and see how you like it. Learn a little more about what is involved before dropping a quarter mil on something you know nothing about.
Why not get your licence and see how you like it. Learn a little more about what is involved before dropping a quarter mil on something you know nothing about.
