As a military pilot are you thinking of the airlines?

hercdriver · Post by **hercdriver** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:15 pm

I am sure there are many Canadian Forces Pilots that visit these forums.

I am curious to know how many of you are interested in taking your releases soon to join the airlines?

I am from 8 Wing Trenton and the numbers seem to be growing.

Nark · Post by **Nark** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:56 pm

I'm in the Marine Corps, and have applied for a slot to get my wings.
I obviously have to interest with the airlines.

A few of my friends who do fly and who are mid to near the end of their contract are thinking more towards corporate flying as oppose to the airlines.

To break it down barney style, Naval Aviators and Navel Flight Officers (dudes with wings) have to take a "B" billlet. That could be nearly any job thats away from the air wing side of the house. In order to get O-5 (LtCol) and above you need some sort of "B" billet. Some guys have no interest in that, and will get out when their time is up and avoid that "B" billet.

Cheers

AirCon · Post by **AirCon** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:39 pm

Well, I guess to put it in perspective, I was flying as a CASARA spotter in the Herc on a search in '97 (YYB). Enroute to our start point, I could hear the pilot's chit-chat over the I-Com. The Herc's skipper (his name escapes me) said....."Why should I work 40 and up hours a week, be on call 365 days a year and make 60 (and a bit) thousand a year, when I can fly 15 days a month and make twice the money on civvie street? He definately has a point there!!

A

Jercules · Post by **Jercules** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:52 pm

CF pilot pay has come a long way since 97. Senior Captains (rank not position) make closer to $100 000. Combine that with the fact that airline pay/stability (especially to start) isn't what it used to be makes the choice a little less obvious. Ultimately for most guys I think it will come down to schedule vs stabilty/exciting flying.

An improved procurement process and increased senior salaries would likely increase retention as well. We'll see.

w squared · Post by **w squared** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:16 pm

I'll agree with you that CF pay has come a long way. My question is what IPC do you have to get to as a Captain to make that kind of coin? If I recall correctly, there were a LOT of IPC's for Captain.

A related story. A certain ex-general, Canadian Forces (air force type) was faced by a number of his pilots prior to the gulf war in '91. They as a group had decided that they were tendering their resignations, as they did not want to fly their CF-18's in said war. I guess they saw being a CF pilot as a great way to get trained up for a spot at Air Canada, as well as zoom around on the taxpayer's dime. It just wasn't fun anymore if they had to risk being shot at, or shoot at somebody.

Said general took all of the resignations in hand. He then turned to the pilots and calmly informed them that if they chose to resign, they would subsequently be visiting military prison for a long, LONG time prior to the resignations taking effect.

gryphon · Post by **gryphon** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:58 pm

W Sq - Capt basic is 5331/mth, Capt 10 is 7926/mth...plus aircrew allowance (mine is 274 per month, and I'm Capt 3)...add in a pension, med/dental benefits, free gym etc....all in all, not too shabby, esp considering what I was making as a civvy pilot.
Was at a mug out for one of our C130 guys just this past Friday.....took the plunge to Big Red. Have heard alot have done the same in Trenton and the Peg. As a helo guy, it's just not as tempting.....

ch135146 · Post by **ch135146** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:04 pm

w squared wrote:A related story. A certain ex-general, Canadian Forces (air force type) was faced by a number of his pilots prior to the gulf war in '91. They as a group had decided that they were tendering their resignations, as they did not want to fly their CF-18's in said war. I guess they saw being a CF pilot as a great way to get trained up for a spot at Air Canada, as well as zoom around on the taxpayer's dime. It just wasn't fun anymore if they had to risk being shot at, or shoot at somebody.

Said general took all of the resignations in hand. He then turned to the pilots and calmly informed them that if they chose to resign, they would subsequently be visiting military prison for a long, LONG time prior to the resignations taking effect.

Who told you this...a friend of a friend of your second cousin?

They're called applications for release, not resignations. I was a CF major (pilot) during that period. Word would have gotten around; never heard about this.

What's the phrase? Urban legend?

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:50 pm

The phrase is bullshit ch135146

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:56 pm

ahramin wrote:The phrase is bullshit ch135146

You ain't just whistling Dixie; I was in Baden Germany during the Gulf War, ie where most of the pilots who went to the Gulf were based and I never heard anything of the sort.

rotateandfly · Post by **rotateandfly** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:54 am

I thought I'd tease you guys a little and tell you about a friend of mine who trains on the CRJ, he says ex-forces pilots are a bit of a pain in the ass, since they are sometimes stubborn and not productive in the crew environment aka jerks.

rip away

gryphon · Post by **gryphon** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:24 am

Well.....haven't flown with any in particular, but have been witness to certain pilots who have only flown single pilot aircraft (see, I'm avoiding stereotyping the aformentioned fighter guys....oops) have a hard time interacting with a crew upon switching to multi engine or helos (or civvy)....fair enough I guess....they've been hammered with the mindset of making quick decisions with no one to consider but themselves (excluding traffic of course)....add a crew dynamic, and sometimes old habits are hard to break.

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:39 am

rotateandfly wrote:I thought I'd tease you guys a little and tell you about a friend of mine who trains on the CRJ, he says ex-forces pilots are a bit of a pain in the ass, since they are sometimes stubborn and not productive in the crew environment aka jerks.
rip away

I could see that from a fighter trained pilot. They are trained to fly by themselves and the only checklist you use is what is in your head. I am sure it is quite the transition for them.

And for the guy who says CF pilots were trying to quit instead of going to the Gulf? I seriously think that story is complete crap. Most CF pilots, especially Hornet pilots, would give their right ball to actually do something with all their training. Flying in circles in Cold Lake gets old.

Say Altitude · Post by **Say Altitude** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:48 am

gryphon wrote:Well.....haven't flown with any in particular, but have been witness to certain pilots who have only flown single pilot aircraft (see, I'm avoiding stereotyping the aformentioned fighter guys....oops) have a hard time interacting with a crew upon switching to multi engine or helos (or civvy)....fair enough I guess....they've been hammered with the mindset of making quick decisions with no one to consider but themselves (excluding traffic of course)....add a crew dynamic, and sometimes old habits are hard to break.

I knew a Hornet driver who didn't make it past the interview at CRA because of how he answered the two crew questions and then when he got a shot with us, he didn't even get to the ride on his DC9 course. Unable to work two crew - this all from his own mouth. I think he instructs for BBD now as a civvie....

w squared · Post by **w squared** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:04 am

CH135146, ahramin, and shitdistubrer:

Where did I hear that story from? Well....

I used to room with said general's son at RMC (second semester of the 93/94 academic year in case you're wondering)

If any of you still think that I'm full of it and want to know the general's name, just PM me and I'll respond - I don't want to name any names in a public forum without permission.

I will readily admit that his son was less than a sterling source, but I'd doubt that he would have the imagination to make something like that up from scratch. I can assure you that I'm telling it exactly as I heard it. Given that I know one of the personalities involved in the supposed incident, I wouldn't call it either "bullshit" or an "urban legend".

Was anyone here actually deployed to the gulf in '91? How about in the same squadron as the majority of the pilots that went? I know that news travels fast, but given the speed with which these guys were stepped on, I can see how it might not have made it's way onto the old telegraph system.

As far as word getting around, would you really make a lot of noise if you had been threatened with being sent to Club Ed because you tried to resign your commision instead of being sent to an operational theatre? I believe that "pariah" would be too weak a term for the way you'd be treated by those around you for the remainder of your service.

"Sure, I'll take Her Majesty's money, and I'll let Her Majesty fund my university degree and training, but when it comes time to apply those skills that I've learnt, well, I just don't want to."

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:59 pm

Well I can tell FIRST HAND that current Hornet pilots would give their right ball to see action.

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:04 pm

Say Altitude wrote:
gryphon wrote:Well.....haven't flown with any in particular, but have been witness to certain pilots who have only flown single pilot aircraft (see, I'm avoiding stereotyping the aformentioned fighter guys....oops) have a hard time interacting with a crew upon switching to multi engine or helos (or civvy)....fair enough I guess....they've been hammered with the mindset of making quick decisions with no one to consider but themselves (excluding traffic of course)....add a crew dynamic, and sometimes old habits are hard to break.
I knew a Hornet driver who didn't make it past the interview at CRA because of how he answered the two crew questions and then when he got a shot with us, he didn't even get to the ride on his DC9 course. Unable to work two crew - this all from his own mouth. I think he instructs for BBD now as a civvie....

Unfortunate but reality. The CF tends to brain wash pilots(jet guys) and its a tough nut to crack after flying their way for a while. I have flown with guys here that no way in hell I would fly with in a crew environment. They just don't have the personal/CRM skills to work with someone else in one cockpit.

shitdisturber · Post by **shitdisturber** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:59 pm

w squared, in answer to your question "was anyone actually in a squadron whose pilots were sent to the gulf?" Yeah, I was; and your source/general's son is indeed unreliable and yes, full of crap. While there were some who tried to find ways to get out of going to the gulf; most of the pilots/ground crew I knew volunteered to go. In fact, the problem wasn't getting people to send out; it was deciding who amongst the volunteers would get to go, and who would be forced to stay behind.

ch135146 · Post by **ch135146** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:20 pm

groundpilot wrote:They just don't have the personal/CRM skills to work with someone else in one cockpit.

So, you mean to tell me that saying to the co-pilot, "When I need your shit, I'll squeeze your head," is not the way to do it?

hercdriver · Post by **hercdriver** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:04 pm

I think most of you missed the point of my thread. I am simply looking to hear from CF pilots who are looking at a new career with the airlines.
Why are people continuously bashing each other in these forums? I really don't think that is the purpose here!

groundpilot · Post by **groundpilot** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:09 pm

ch135146 wrote:
groundpilot wrote:They just don't have the personal/CRM skills to work with someone else in one cockpit.
So, you mean to tell me that saying to the co-pilot, "When I need your shit, I'll squeeze your head," is not the way to do it?

lol...exactly

low n over · Post by **low n over** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:05 am

"Just sit there and shut the f@#k up, pound for pound I'd rather have more gas"

ch135146 · Post by **ch135146** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:56 am

Co-pilots are just a waste of rations.

Big Pistons Forever · Post by **Big Pistons Forever** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:43 pm

The grass is not always greener on the outside. Alot of ex Air Force guys went to C3. When C3 went TU many went back to mother CF, one I know left as a LCol and when he asked to rejoin was told Capt IPC 10 take it or leave it and by the way expect at least one ground posting before there will be any chance to see an aircraft.

ch135146 · Post by **ch135146** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:02 pm

ch135146 wrote:Co-pilots are just a waste of rations.

I confess, I don't really believe that...having been one in the beginning.

Just stirring the pot.

As a military pilot are you thinking of the airlines?

As a military pilot are you thinking of the airlines?

I love how these threads run out of control!!