Hi Cat!
Glad to put in some "food for thought"!
The insurance issue is quite possibly the biggest issue and the most misunderstood by prospective float pilots, operators and, in my opinion, most of the insurance underwriters. With numbers like I quoted in my last post it is no wonder there is an insurance pricing and availability problem!
The number of people who have obtained their float ratings with a "Check Pilot" aboard while doing their "solo" speaks for itself. The people who do it undercut the honest people who make sure the students will bring the airplane back to the dock through proper and thorough training and don`t offer guarenteed fixed cost seaplane tickets (and unfortunately pay huge insurance premiums as well).
As I wrote in my last post, I don`t know of any accidents while students do the solo as required by T.C. but one has to wonder how many seaplane tickets have been handed out to people who haven`t actually done the solo. The log book for the student and the journey log have to match and if the pilot is not an approved pilot on the aircraft insurance policy (or there is a some form of an open pilot clause allowing for solo in the policy) then the aircraft was flown without liability insurance coverage (which is illegal).
If there is an underwriter out there who can quote accident statistics on accidents while true solo qualifying circuits are being done I would love to hear from them (the silence is deafening!).
In the meantime I would suggest that some combination of increased hours and training (including underwater egress training) be considered. Alternatively, a careful audit of logs and insurance policies to police the current solo requirement might be considered as it may have a similar effect. The current rules aren`t actually all that bad if everyone really followed the rules!!
Spafloats
Float Instructing
Moderators: Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
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cessnafloatflyer
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I know of an total loss during a 'solo' for the rating (not mine!) however, TC now requires operators to show them a copy of your policy to prove that these flights are covered for the operator's policy. They have retracted ratings in the past when it was proven that the operator did not have the proper coverrage.
The reason for the increased rates are I beleive not only for the solo, but beacuse the course for the solo so often by many operators about circuits on 'easy' days, not about seaplane training and thus a low level of knowlege and experience when the rating is attained. Also, is taught often by instructors and not working charter pilots without much real experience. Guys who hire 50 hour guys to teach with instructor ratings so that students building time for their commercial can log it as dual in their PTR even though these skills are realted but not covered on the flight test. You get what you pay for in this case.
Buyer beware!
The reason for the increased rates are I beleive not only for the solo, but beacuse the course for the solo so often by many operators about circuits on 'easy' days, not about seaplane training and thus a low level of knowlege and experience when the rating is attained. Also, is taught often by instructors and not working charter pilots without much real experience. Guys who hire 50 hour guys to teach with instructor ratings so that students building time for their commercial can log it as dual in their PTR even though these skills are realted but not covered on the flight test. You get what you pay for in this case.
Buyer beware!
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Cat Driver
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It has always been my opinion that the 5 solo take offs and landings serve no useful purpose in the training for a sea plane rating whereas a independant check ride would.
The solo does add a monetary burden through higher insurance premiums.
For me it makes no difference as I do not teach seaplane ratings anymore, when I get back to teaching sea plane flying it will only be with pilots who already have the rating.
I was hoping to start later this summer, however our overseas business has gone right nuts and there will not be much free time this year.
By the way SPA, I finally got the first insurance policy issued with a 60% reduction in the time requirements for my students with my training program completed.
So the providers can be swayed.
Cat
The solo does add a monetary burden through higher insurance premiums.
For me it makes no difference as I do not teach seaplane ratings anymore, when I get back to teaching sea plane flying it will only be with pilots who already have the rating.
I was hoping to start later this summer, however our overseas business has gone right nuts and there will not be much free time this year.
By the way SPA, I finally got the first insurance policy issued with a 60% reduction in the time requirements for my students with my training program completed.
So the providers can be swayed.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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cessnafloatflyer
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Dedication and a willingness to succeed dispite odds... confidence... to name a few. A game plan with situational awareness as to where, when and how. Networking and connections....
Two of my students who started on floats in January and have completed the 50 hour course have found work this season on floats, not the docks. Some schools have developed pilots and relationships with operators who look for low time seaplane pilots. Timing is really good in the industry right now.
Lots of work, skill and dedication, with a bit of luck. All of us started somewhere and got the first job. Some are luckier than others but every seaplane pilot got the first job.
Two of my students who started on floats in January and have completed the 50 hour course have found work this season on floats, not the docks. Some schools have developed pilots and relationships with operators who look for low time seaplane pilots. Timing is really good in the industry right now.
Lots of work, skill and dedication, with a bit of luck. All of us started somewhere and got the first job. Some are luckier than others but every seaplane pilot got the first job.
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cessnafloatflyer
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- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:02 pm
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Cat Driver
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When I get finished with my contracts I will help you and Robin set up your own program...it took me about six years to get mine approved.
However I think I may be on to who to talk to now..
..insurance providers are interested in making money not paying out claims...a good training program lessens their risk exposure......it ain't f.ckin rocket science its just common sense.
Cat
However I think I may be on to who to talk to now..
..insurance providers are interested in making money not paying out claims...a good training program lessens their risk exposure......it ain't f.ckin rocket science its just common sense.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Float instructing
Cat,
I would be very interested in getting some more details regarding your insurance premium reduction program with your contacts at Lloyds, which you and I have touched base with in the past.
The solo doesn`t (as you stated) really produce anything worthwhile (except that the student is probably happy to get the demanding carcass out of the right seat?!) and the increased insurance premium only benefits the insurance companies while driving up the cost of float training. Solo only makes the training provider "walk the walk" when they are sending the airplane and student out for real solo.
Comprehensive float training would benefit all float plane owners in the form of lower premiums as a result of lower losses and perhaps more insurance markets because floatplanes would not be viewed as high risk exposure.
Interestingly, I have yet to be asked for proof of liability insurance for solo students by T.C., and most students don`t know what to ask about insurance and solo policy when they select a seaplane training provider, although many of the "bad apples" have disappeared in last few years.
Spafloats
I would be very interested in getting some more details regarding your insurance premium reduction program with your contacts at Lloyds, which you and I have touched base with in the past.
The solo doesn`t (as you stated) really produce anything worthwhile (except that the student is probably happy to get the demanding carcass out of the right seat?!) and the increased insurance premium only benefits the insurance companies while driving up the cost of float training. Solo only makes the training provider "walk the walk" when they are sending the airplane and student out for real solo.
Comprehensive float training would benefit all float plane owners in the form of lower premiums as a result of lower losses and perhaps more insurance markets because floatplanes would not be viewed as high risk exposure.
Interestingly, I have yet to be asked for proof of liability insurance for solo students by T.C., and most students don`t know what to ask about insurance and solo policy when they select a seaplane training provider, although many of the "bad apples" have disappeared in last few years.
Spafloats
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Cat Driver
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" Solo only makes the training provider "walk the walk" when they are sending the airplane and student out for real solo. "
Whereas a check flight by an independant test flight examiner would confirm that the student met the standard required.
I tried to get that simple concept across to that moron that is in charge of flight training in Ottawa, but alas it was like trying to communicate with a mentally challenged two year old.
E-mail me and I can send you a copy of the insurance policy that outlines the reduction in total hours and the training time requirements.
Cat
Whereas a check flight by an independant test flight examiner would confirm that the student met the standard required.
I tried to get that simple concept across to that moron that is in charge of flight training in Ottawa, but alas it was like trying to communicate with a mentally challenged two year old.
E-mail me and I can send you a copy of the insurance policy that outlines the reduction in total hours and the training time requirements.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
