Hello!
Somehow I have been given the options...
A. To go to BCIT and get my diploma full time in their aviation college.
B. Get my dad to buy me a small plane (itty bitty nothing fancy) to learn my commercial on.
If I were to go with option B I would just do my schooling on my own part time.
Some people argue the school is a waste of cash and would make little to no difference - other argue its all in the name.
So what's your opinion? Option A or B?
Diploma vs your own plane
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Cat Driver
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I'm not sure about BCIT..
But at Seneca and Toronto Airways you can bring your own plane and just pay for the instructor...
So the plane idea imo is the best idea, cheapest way to do it, and go ask BCIT if you can use your own bird or just get a diploma/degree in something else and get the CPL with your own plane....
But at Seneca and Toronto Airways you can bring your own plane and just pay for the instructor...
So the plane idea imo is the best idea, cheapest way to do it, and go ask BCIT if you can use your own bird or just get a diploma/degree in something else and get the CPL with your own plane....
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Cat Driver
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Hey, Wolfey I have just the deal for you.
Go to this site...
http://www.chuckellsworth.com
Get your daddy to buy that Aerobat tail dragger as I don't need it anymore.
A tail wheel airplane makes for a far better pilot although it may be hard to find an instructor..
But I also have someone for you that can take care of that little problem as I need to sell it even though this guy offered to teach me how to fly it..
Get ahold of this guy:
"Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wrote this:
"Quote:
Thank God I found this site because you are the second person who has pointed out the short commings in my decision to buy an Aerobat for doing skills upgrading. "
Sideshow wrote this:
"Glad I could help. Of course having an aerobat would be better than nothing. You could always keep flying it till you got the hang of flying it or failing that if you survive the insurance will cover any losses. That might be one way to recoup your losses. "
This is your lucky day SkyWolfe your problems are solved.
Cat
Go to this site...
http://www.chuckellsworth.com
Get your daddy to buy that Aerobat tail dragger as I don't need it anymore.
A tail wheel airplane makes for a far better pilot although it may be hard to find an instructor..
But I also have someone for you that can take care of that little problem as I need to sell it even though this guy offered to teach me how to fly it..
Get ahold of this guy:
"Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wrote this:
"Quote:
Thank God I found this site because you are the second person who has pointed out the short commings in my decision to buy an Aerobat for doing skills upgrading. "
Sideshow wrote this:
"Glad I could help. Of course having an aerobat would be better than nothing. You could always keep flying it till you got the hang of flying it or failing that if you survive the insurance will cover any losses. That might be one way to recoup your losses. "
This is your lucky day SkyWolfe your problems are solved.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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. ._
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SHIT! If your dad buys ya a plane to fly, GRAB IT!
As was said before, BBBBBBBBBBBB.
You'll get a pile of experience changing the oil, doing the paperwork, etc. etc.!
It'll probably be cheaper in the end too, if you're going commercial.
Fly to Sudbury, and I'll buy ya a beer too!
-istp
As was said before, BBBBBBBBBBBB.
You'll get a pile of experience changing the oil, doing the paperwork, etc. etc.!
It'll probably be cheaper in the end too, if you're going commercial.
Fly to Sudbury, and I'll buy ya a beer too!
-istp
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goldeneagle
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Re: Diploma vs your own plane
Been there, done that, cept when i got to that stage, i had to spend my own money to buy the plane. I bought an Aeronca Chief. It wasn't suitable for finishing the CPL course on, but, sure did let me build up time for very few dollars. Once I had the time required, sold the airplane, finished the courses.SkyWolfe wrote:Hello!
Somehow I have been given the options...
A. To go to BCIT and get my diploma full time in their aviation college.
B. Get my dad to buy me a small plane (itty bitty nothing fancy) to learn my commercial on.
Hey Sky! If you pick up Cats Aeorobat I wana ride!!!
One of the instructors/charter pilots at my old school had a 120; I think she saved a LOT on her license…. But then again im sure she spent a bit more, I mean common if you have your own plane just sitting there, it would be kinda hard to not just jump in and bugger off to Vegas for a week Im sure she had a good 600 hrs before she even started working...
Cat could that thing go commercial without too much work?
If it could, sky you may be able to work out a deal with PFC/whoever to lease it to them; IE they pay for maintenance, insurance etc… then you get say $30 hr when they are teaching tail wheel conversions/etc… and then of course you would pay them next to nothing for your own training… I REALLY wish I had bought a plane before I started this whole journey…
One of the instructors/charter pilots at my old school had a 120; I think she saved a LOT on her license…. But then again im sure she spent a bit more, I mean common if you have your own plane just sitting there, it would be kinda hard to not just jump in and bugger off to Vegas for a week
Im sure she had a good 600 hrs before she even started working...Cat could that thing go commercial without too much work?
If it could, sky you may be able to work out a deal with PFC/whoever to lease it to them; IE they pay for maintenance, insurance etc… then you get say $30 hr when they are teaching tail wheel conversions/etc… and then of course you would pay them next to nothing for your own training… I REALLY wish I had bought a plane before I started this whole journey…
Wow, I think option B is winning - seems to be more economical too - But what about the maintance, fuel and insurance? Where does that all come in price wise? I hear you can get insurance that is fairly affordable for yourself...
Walker - I'll be on the Island by June - Hopefully have the plane by Sept... With it just sitting there- I'll just wing by and get you and we'll go to Vegas
Oh - and where does one store the plane?
Walker - I'll be on the Island by June - Hopefully have the plane by Sept... With it just sitting there- I'll just wing by and get you and we'll go to Vegas
Oh - and where does one store the plane?
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Cat Driver
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" Cat could that thing go commercial without too much work? "
Walker, the last time it was flying it was licensed as commercial, I bought it to use in my flight school.
The reason I converted it to a tail Wheel is it is less expensive than buying a good Citabria and the Aerobat is all metal..
As far as needing work goes I doubt if you will find a better maintained or nicer looking Cessna 150 Aerobat in Canada, and for sure you won't find another Aerobat with a Tail Wheel STC in Canada.
NOTE:
Sideshow made this comment :
"150 aerobat does snap rolls pretty good thats about it though."
Why then did the FAA certify it for aerobatics?
So when you read off the wall comments such as he made you must take into consideration the possibility that the person making the statement is lacking in the flying ability to perform aerobatics in a Cessna Aerobat because tens of thousands of other pilots manage to perform the manouvers in them.
Cat
Walker, the last time it was flying it was licensed as commercial, I bought it to use in my flight school.
The reason I converted it to a tail Wheel is it is less expensive than buying a good Citabria and the Aerobat is all metal..
As far as needing work goes I doubt if you will find a better maintained or nicer looking Cessna 150 Aerobat in Canada, and for sure you won't find another Aerobat with a Tail Wheel STC in Canada.
NOTE:
Sideshow made this comment :
"150 aerobat does snap rolls pretty good thats about it though."
Why then did the FAA certify it for aerobatics?
So when you read off the wall comments such as he made you must take into consideration the possibility that the person making the statement is lacking in the flying ability to perform aerobatics in a Cessna Aerobat because tens of thousands of other pilots manage to perform the manouvers in them.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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cessnafloatflyer
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Be careful... it's not always so simple.
There are annual maintenance costs, strange things come up with aircraft that are expensive and they can happen often. There is much learned when you own your own: keeping tech logs and reoccuring maintenance items and such, they can add up. Pitot testing, survival gear, lifejackets, elt batteries, radio gremlins an so many other 'nickle and dime' things come up.
Partnerships are a great idea to help divide these costs as they arise as on occasion, they can be overwhelming and without notice.
I do agree that a good partnership has huge benefits over rental. As there is much going on behind the scenes when you rent that the renter has no idea of. Hiring an owner has great advantage over hiring a renter as they understand the costs and amount of work it takes to keep an aircraft safe and airworthy and how much a bit of care (oil temp in the green? proper cooling on decents... etc.) can go a long way to saving an operator a lot of $$$.
There are annual maintenance costs, strange things come up with aircraft that are expensive and they can happen often. There is much learned when you own your own: keeping tech logs and reoccuring maintenance items and such, they can add up. Pitot testing, survival gear, lifejackets, elt batteries, radio gremlins an so many other 'nickle and dime' things come up.
Partnerships are a great idea to help divide these costs as they arise as on occasion, they can be overwhelming and without notice.
I do agree that a good partnership has huge benefits over rental. As there is much going on behind the scenes when you rent that the renter has no idea of. Hiring an owner has great advantage over hiring a renter as they understand the costs and amount of work it takes to keep an aircraft safe and airworthy and how much a bit of care (oil temp in the green? proper cooling on decents... etc.) can go a long way to saving an operator a lot of $$$.
If you at all think you might want to do this flying thing for life... BUY A PLANE. Get a simple little two seater, tail wheel great... , if can be converted to floats at some point... even better. After you've done the few hundred+ hours your going to need to get a job you'll have some equity. Private insurance? 1200 to 3000g's/yr depending on what you get, if you find better good for you. preferably get a plane with with at least a half time engine, should be good for a 1000hrs or so.
good luck have fun and with the right people around, you will not regret it!
good luck have fun and with the right people around, you will not regret it!
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rotateandfly
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Cat, I completely agree. I've flown a 152 Aerobat and lemme tell you it's quite capable of aerobatic maneuvers."150 aerobat does snap rolls pretty good thats about it though."
Why then did the FAA certify it for aerobatics?
So when you read off the wall comments such as he made you must take into consideration the possibility that the person making the statement is lacking in the flying ability to perform aerobatics in a Cessna Aerobat because tens of thousands of other pilots manage to perform the manouvers in them.
For anyone who doubts the abilities of an Aerobat, see the link below:
http://www.flightlevel350.com/video_str ... hp?id=3802
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Cat Driver
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Thanks for the link, I notice that even the stall warning worked in that last wing over. 
Of course the Aerobat does aerobatic manouvers, that is what it was certified for.
Learning basic aerobatic manouvers with a low powered low performance machine teaches you energy conservation to perform the manouvers.
Your grandmother can roll a Pitts due to it being high performance.
I'm still waiting for Sideshow to come over and teach me how to land the thing...before I sell it..
Cat
Of course the Aerobat does aerobatic manouvers, that is what it was certified for.
Learning basic aerobatic manouvers with a low powered low performance machine teaches you energy conservation to perform the manouvers.
Your grandmother can roll a Pitts due to it being high performance.
I'm still waiting for Sideshow to come over and teach me how to land the thing...before I sell it..
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Here is my advice,
Tell your dad to save his money or better yet give it to me and pay off my student loans. That way we both break even and neither of us own and airplane. That way neither of us will look spoiled.
Tell your dad to save his money or better yet give it to me and pay off my student loans. That way we both break even and neither of us own and airplane. That way neither of us will look spoiled.
The bad news is time flies. The good news is you’re a pilot.
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Where'd who go?
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Cat Driver
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No it is a stock 1976 Cessna A150M that I converted to a Texas Tail Dragger with an Okaganagan engine rebuilt 0-200A with millinum cylinders, light weight starter and oil filter. It has 135 hours SMOH.
I operated a Cessna 150 on floats with the 150 HP. conversion and a Horton STOL kit in one of my former companies.
It performed quite well but lacked fuel range and payload due to the extra weight and fuel consumption of the 150 HP engine.
My only reason for selling it is get money to finish my Cub project.
TC finished off any savings that I had several years ago, but f.ck those pricks I will recover and start teaching without their approval.
In a way I would sort of like to keep the Aerobat but momma has put her foot down and said you have lost enough money already if you want to keep training sell the Aerobat and finish your Cub and you will be out from under TC and their crap.
Momma knows exactly how things go in aviation because she has been involved in my other companies.
And momma is smarter than me...
Cat
I operated a Cessna 150 on floats with the 150 HP. conversion and a Horton STOL kit in one of my former companies.
It performed quite well but lacked fuel range and payload due to the extra weight and fuel consumption of the 150 HP engine.
My only reason for selling it is get money to finish my Cub project.
TC finished off any savings that I had several years ago, but f.ck those pricks I will recover and start teaching without their approval.
In a way I would sort of like to keep the Aerobat but momma has put her foot down and said you have lost enough money already if you want to keep training sell the Aerobat and finish your Cub and you will be out from under TC and their crap.
Momma knows exactly how things go in aviation because she has been involved in my other companies.
And momma is smarter than me...
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Hey Cat, good point ... but if you really want to learn energy conservation try glider aerobatics! And as an added bonus, inverted fuel and oil systems become irrelevent.Cat Driver wrote:Learning basic aerobatic manouvers with a low powered low performance machine teaches you energy conservation to perform the manouvers.
Cheers,
Brew
Brew
Im not spoiled in any way. I dont get everything I want - never. Its just to help me with my school. So I have these options. Because school is important in my family - and we all work together to make it happen - just incase some people are picking up the wrong vibe here.
Haha, I wouldn’t worry about it Sky, I think MRO is just jealous!!! If (s)he ever had the opportunity I highly doubt it would get turned down !!!
But that certainly sounds like a nice AC (135 SMOH etc..)! Weren’t you saying how much you wanted to do acrobatics Sky!?
What’s its TTSN Cat?
If it could go commercial; that basically means you could buy it and lease it too a school so your making income off of it… plus the school would be paying for almost all the bills…. Granted you would have to let others fly it on occasion… LoL if you wanted to move to vic im sure it would look nice next to our Katana!
BTW as far as I know all schools will teach you on your own AC. They usually have a cheaper instructor rate too…
But that certainly sounds like a nice AC (135 SMOH etc..)! Weren’t you saying how much you wanted to do acrobatics Sky!?
What’s its TTSN Cat?
If it could go commercial; that basically means you could buy it and lease it too a school so your making income off of it… plus the school would be paying for almost all the bills…. Granted you would have to let others fly it on occasion… LoL if you wanted to move to vic im sure it would look nice next to our Katana!
BTW as far as I know all schools will teach you on your own AC. They usually have a cheaper instructor rate too…
Good point Walker!Walker wrote:BTW as far as I know all schools will teach you on your own AC. They usually have a cheaper instructor rate too…
However, the other thing to consider, is that if you own your own aircraft - you don't even need to do your training through an FTU. If you read CAR 406.03 - you'll notice that A person who does not hold a flight training unit operator certificate may operate a flight training service if the trainee is the owner, or a member of the family of the owner, of the aircraft used for training,
I've known a few people who have gone this route. My understanding is that you can't use a class 4 instructor - but the rest (a class 1, 2, or 3) can do this type of "free lance" training. Just find an instructor (maybe even one from the local flying school) who wants to do some additional instructing on the side, and negotiate your own rate with them.
If you're providing your own aircraft, why let a school provide an instructor while charging you a markup on his/her hourly rate?
Just food for thought. ......besides, if your a/c is a nice little vintage tail dragger - the instructor may give you a good rate just because they'll actually enjoying flying it!
Requirement to Hold a Flight Training Unit Operator Certificate
406.03 (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), no person shall operate a flight training service in Canada using an aeroplane or helicopter in Canada unless the person holds a flight training unit operator certificate that authorizes the person to operate the service and complies with the conditions and operations specifications set out in the certificate.
(amended 2003/06/01; previous version)
(2) A person who does not hold a flight training unit operator certificate may operate a flight training service if(3) In the case of flight training conducted under subparagraph (2)(b)(iii), the flight instructor shall
- (a) the person holds a private operator certificate or an air operator certificate, the aircraft used for training is specified in the private operator certificate or air operator certificate, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational, a private pilot licence, a commercial pilot licence or a flight instructor rating; or
(b) the trainee is
- (i) the owner, or a member of the family of the owner, of the aircraft used for training,
(ii) a director of a corporation that owns the aircraft used for training, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational or a private pilot licence, or
(iii) using an aircraft that has been obtained from a person who is at arm’s length from the flight instructor, and the training is other than toward obtaining a pilot permit - recreational or a private pilot licence.
(amended 2003/06/01; previous version)
(amended 2003/06/01; no previous version)
- (a) notify the Minister in writing of
(amended 2003/06/01; no previous version)(b) provide the information to the Minister
- (i) the name and address of the person to receive the training,
(ii) the registration of the aircraft to be used,
(iii) the type of training to be conducted,
(iv) the location of the training operations, and
(v) the name and licence number of the flight instructor; and
(amended 2003/06/01; no previous version)
- (i) prior to commencing training operations,
(ii) within 10 working days after any change to the information, and
(iii) when the training is discontinued.
Hey Skywolfe,
With a college program, you learn a lot about the industry that you probably wouldn't learn on your own. In my program we had many guest speakers that were usually very beneficial. We also spent a lot of time learning how to properly do resumes, cover letters etc... Went on some interesting "field trips" (maintenance hangars, simulators, trade shows...) And not to mention, you make some amazing friends that stick with you well after graduation. A college program has a structure that allows no room for procrastinating and I'm sure having a diploma/degree can't hurt you in the long run. Good luck with your decision!
With a college program, you learn a lot about the industry that you probably wouldn't learn on your own. In my program we had many guest speakers that were usually very beneficial. We also spent a lot of time learning how to properly do resumes, cover letters etc... Went on some interesting "field trips" (maintenance hangars, simulators, trade shows...) And not to mention, you make some amazing friends that stick with you well after graduation. A college program has a structure that allows no room for procrastinating and I'm sure having a diploma/degree can't hurt you in the long run. Good luck with your decision!
