CZBB instructor rating

JW · Post by JW » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:20 am

Would you like it to go the way of Winnipeg Flying Club?

???

SkyWolfe · Post by **SkyWolfe** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:40 am

lol@JW

Im confused too - your not alone

JW · Post by JW » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:55 am

I had no idea that the Winnipeg Flying Club had a successful college program... I believe PFC own's two of their former aircraft though.

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:37 pm

The way of Winnipeg Flying Club?...no...was talk'n about what harvs did with a satalite. WFC had a LOT of problems with their college programs...infact I belive they had some very expensive lawsuits becuase of it (not sure howmuch they lost..think most of it was against the college it's self)
BTW not only does PFC have some of their planes...it was PFC that call'd Transport on WFC & had them shut down.

JTP · Post by **JTP** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:26 am

altiplano wrote:The mgmt at PFC are morons -

5 years ago their planes sucked I'm sure they still do and most of the other pilots don't give a shit -

Now there are all those BCIT kids running around, sounds like a frat house in there most days -

They will take your money wherever they can for stupid shit -

They have that stupid membership fee BS... but they say you get to vote! I vote you can Pat and Clark and get someone in there who isn't full of shit...

I'd take any school at czbb over that joke.

I SECOND all that noise, especially the management bit.

fromeasttowest · Post by **fromeasttowest** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:15 am

The mgmt at PFC are morons -

5 years ago their planes sucked I'm sure they still do and most of the other pilots don't give a shit -

Now there are all those BCIT kids running around, sounds like a frat house in there most days -

They will take your money wherever they can for stupid shit -

They have that stupid membership fee BS... but they say you get to vote! I vote you can Pat and Clark and get someone in there who isn't full of shit...

I'd take any school at czbb over that joke.

Why do their planes suck, they look like they are in great shape. Why do you think mgmt sucks so bad? These are things I'd like to know before I get to far into my rating. Wouldn't a college program be good for an instructor? Gives you students year round, right? So help me out and be specific, whats your dimp with PFC?

Kenny G · Post by **Kenny G** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:22 am

They dont suck.

MNTX is great! no complaints when I was there.

Students all year round, especialy after the summer season when the new class comes in september.

I wonder why everyone is bashing them so bad?

I would take good MNTX and bad management, then the other way around any day.

classiv · Post by **classiv** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:35 am

I can just hear the BCIT boys nows....

"When I graduate, I'm going straight to Central Mountain Air, but I worry about the PIC time and the ATPL..."

"Oh yeah, well I want the PIC time, so I'll be looking for Caravan time for my first job... no doubt when bush operator Bob from Fort Population 150 sees my shiny BCIT "Airline Transitions" program diploma, he'll probably be so wowed and impressed that he'll make me Captain on his Caravan straight away... I figure I'll be at Air Canada in about two years from now, that is of course if Westjet doesn't pick me up first".

"Airline Transitions" program.... who dreams up this BS?

JW · Post by JW » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:26 pm

I believe its Airline and Flight Operations not "airline transition"
I can just hear the BCIT boys nows....

"When I graduate, I'm going straight to Central Mountain Air, but I worry about the PIC time and the ATPL..."

"Oh yeah, well I want the PIC time, so I'll be looking for Caravan time for my first job... no doubt when bush operator Bob from Fort Population 150 sees my shiny BCIT "Airline Transitions" program diploma, he'll probably be so wowed and impressed that he'll make me Captain on his Caravan straight away... I figure I'll be at Air Canada in about two years from now, that is of course if Westjet doesn't pick me up first".

I'm a BCIT grad, no one expected to be flying after they graduated (knew they would be working ramp), and no one expects to be at AC in 2 years. However from the 20 that graduated with me most are now flying, a few went back to university. So classiv, If you don't know what your talking about, keep your mouth shut. That will make you seem less ignorant.

JW

classiv · Post by **classiv** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:00 pm

Looks like I touched a nerve there, JW.

I know the "college boy" mantality. How? Because my little dialogue there, I used to say the same thing myself. Most of us did after being brainwashed by the schools into thinking we were hot sh*t because we graduated from XYZ college.

Then we graduated and looked for jobs... then the reality hit.

JW · Post by JW » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:32 pm

Well I guess thats where BCIT is different from most other programs then. They pound it into your head that you will likely never see the inside of an airplane unless your a passenger, or renting one yourself. In the interview process they ask you what you expect to do after you graduate, I haven't met a person who made it past the interview that said they would be at AC two years later. The best thing about BCIT is that we have instructors that are actually in the insdustry, and they do a great job reminding students that a college diploma means jack sh*t at this stage of the game, and will likely mean jack sh*t through out your career.

So now your thinking why do a college program then?
Well no matter what anyone says the cost isn't THAT much more, don't get me wrong it does cost more but the difference isn't as huge as most people make it out to be. I did the college route because it eliminates procrastination. You hang out for a month with your thumb up your a** and your out of the program. I started BCIT 16 months later I was CPL MIFR, and there were still people coming to the club, and other schools, that had started training before me and didn't even have a CPL yet. Some still don't. That and some of the courses at BCIT actually showed me a thing or two.

JW

classiv · Post by **classiv** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:49 pm

They pound it into your head that you will likely never see the inside of an airplane unless your a passenger, or renting one yourself.

If BCIT is genuinely straight up with prospective students like this, then they are truly the exception to the rule, and I respect them.

No doubt you as an instructor tell prospective students the same thing, and when asked about the 'pilot shortage' you tell them that that only affects high time jet Captains in an abstract way in developing countries, and that in Canada at least the ratio of pilot to jobs is out of proportion, and that there is no shortage of applicants with thounds of hours on file at AC and Westjet.

If you can say that -and you don't get fired by management (unlikely)- then you're on the right track

Your students will respect you more for it.

Kenny G · Post by **Kenny G** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:07 pm

I find it hard to believe that anyone would expect to be flying a 1900 D out of flight school. There are people that think that, but they obviously did not do any research when deciding to become a pilot.

But what all programs try to do, and most programs succeed at doing, are to give you the skills to continue along your path of becoming/advancing as a pilot.

Saying that young pilots are "brain washed" says something about the candidate and not the flying school. Maybe even says something about the industry. Remember it is the "dream of flying" not the "reality of flying".

The reality is that all that matters is hours. If you have two 2000hr pilots with the same experience THEN maybe the collage route works in your favor.

If you don't know this reality starting your training then your about to learn a very expensive lesson, one the flight school is not responsible for.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:26 pm

at justwork -

If the BCIT program is so great how come most of the students sued BCIT/PFC a couple programs back after completion?

at fromeasttowest

I thought I pretty much sized up my feelings in the initial post as to why they sucked... But let's look at one of their planes that they charged a premium for when I did some flying there - FPAK a C172R was the new plane in their fleet - the autopilot put you into a spiral dive 30 seconds after engaging it, the GPS just was wrong but don't snag it, they might have to placard it then... overall it was thrashed in short order by other people who don't give a shit and mngmt sure as hell doesn't - any pfc planes expect it late, a ripped up interior, broken avionics, dirty exterior, messy interior, and master left on when you show up... You'll be lucky if the door stays closed on the take-off roll - I never stuck around to fly it but their Seneca but OMG was known by most at ZBB as OH MY GOD...

Mngmt suck because they just do... They aren't accountable because they don't have to be - they don't own the club, the planes, they can just walk away anytime... I'd rather go somewhere where the guy gives a shit because it's his school, his machine that he takes pride in... The dinks at PFC are just taking it for as much as they can until the members get smart and vote them out - problem is most voting members stick around for a year, realize it sucks and move on... Do what you want - I don't care , that's just one mans opinion... maybe they've got it together since I was around there but I doubt it...

BTW how do you know that their MTC is so good?

Kenny G · Post by **Kenny G** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:38 am

All At Altiplano -

It sounds like when you were at PFC you didn’t care... It also sounds like you have been away for soo long that you have no idea what you are saying. The reason people come to the club is to have a vote and to be able do something about it if they don’t like it.

But your right the mgmt can walk away at any time if they want to, but so can "the guy gives a shit because it's his school, his machine that he takes pride in" ...it is called CLOSING THE BUINESS, he is just responsible to himself...not to any members. Mgmt does care because it is there job to care or they get fire.... yes they can get fired if the board of directors says so. Who is on the board of directors?.... YOU the member... it sounds like you were just too lazy to use your membership fees and "do something about it"

Most of the students did NOT sue BCIT/PFC some programs back; I was deeply involved in the program since the beginning. Some hard feeling but no lawsuits. I suggest you start coming around and gathering facts before you start slogging anybody.

If you want to disscuse this more please PM me.

JW · Post by JW » Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:57 am

couldn't leave that post up.

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:29 am

Just to shed some light on BCIT getting sued, that was over the Airport Operations Program, and has absolutely nothing to do with Airline and Flight Operations, other than they both exist at BCIT. It had zero to with PFC. That is a FACT.

Kenny G · Post by **Kenny G** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:28 am

So now this post is so far off track. It is safe to say that if you ask this question to 5 different people you will get 5 different answers. (well…one person might even answer "Flight Tech")

But make sure when you post a reply with something to say that it is intelligent and not 5 years old. (hence the flight tech comment)

The original question that fromeasttowest posted was in today’s opinions not ones from yesteryear.

If fromeasttowest is still watching this post (I don’t think he is) then please do your home work, go see all the schools at the airport and THEN come to PFC and the mgmt will tell you HOW IT IS and not WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. After that make your decision and have fun with it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Kenny G and his alto sax...OUT

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:23 pm

PFC might suck but Kenny G blows horn...

As I said "one man's opinion" - you don't like it keep on blowin'.

SkyWolfe · Post by **SkyWolfe** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:56 pm

Im gonna make a lil comment - I haven't had any problems at PFC - I wouldnt say they are super friendly - but I would say they are good for what they are there for. When I had my BCIT interveiw a few months back they made sure I knew how chitty the industry was and how little pay if any I would make... my instructor has been really good and patient too... so.... This is just my opinion...

JW · Post by JW » Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:51 pm

If the BCIT program is so great how come most of the students sued BCIT/PFC a couple programs back after completion?

Well, the only thing I can say about that is it never happened. You can talk out your ass all you want, it still never happened. A couple of programs back? I think you mean years, and that would have been my class.

I never stuck around to fly it but their Seneca but OMG was known by most at ZBB as OH MY GOD...

What would you call it? The freaking ident is OMG. BJQ is called blow job queen.....BECAUSE THE IDENT IS B.J.Q!!! C-FAGZ is called FAGZ, so what's the problem? Everyone looks for this in idents. The plane flies great, just has a funny ident that everyone (even us instructors that fly it) love to pick on.

They aren't accountable because they don't have to be - they don't own the club, the planes, they can just walk away anytime

This one I think is really funny, so let me ask you this then; If you had a job, that paid you well and you liked, would you want to f*ck it up and then "just walk"? Pull your head out of being shoulder deep inside your own ass and think about that for a minute. Minute up yet?

any pfc planes expect it late

15 min late is $50 cash in your pocket, club policy.

GPS just was wrong but don't snag it, they might have to placard it then

Do you own a pen? Do you know how to write in the English language? Were you ever PIC in FPAK? If there was ever something wrong with it then you are %100 responsible for writing it up in the journey log book that you get every single time you sign out the aircraft. If you did not snag a defect then you are just a plan jack a**, and more importantly you just put the next member/renter at risk, so shame on you.

BTW how do you know that their MTC is so good?

Because I know the guys, and more important I fly those planes everyday. Why would you think they're not?

Maybe you should stop by other schools at CZBB, where I watch them de-ice the twin with salt rock used for side walks, "just toss that up on the tail, you can't reach it with the broom"

I'm willing to bet you're a pilot that didn't pass his check ride, and management backed up the instructor over you. It would be great if you could post a logical reply that I can actually take some advice from. Or better yet, something I can take back to the school and offer up a change. That is if you have anything actually sincere to offer me.

JW

As I said "one man's opinion" - you don't like it keep on blowin'.

Thats my opinion

fromeasttowest · Post by **fromeasttowest** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:12 pm

After meeting some of the instructors, talking with managment, checking out the planes, as well as mtc I've decided that PFC is going to be a great place to do an instructor rating. Thanks for all of your help, altiplano I think you might be a little off base. I haven't experienced anything you were really talking about. I don't know much about the BCIT program though, but I hope to be an instructor for it this fall.

2close4missiles · Post by **2close4missiles** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:52 am

Well now all this is neatly wrapped up
How are FTUs in CYYJ?

privateer · Post by **privateer** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:24 pm

I can just hear the BCIT boys nows....

"When I graduate, I'm going straight to Central Mountain Air, but I worry about the PIC time and the ATPL..."

"Oh yeah, well I want the PIC time, so I'll be looking for Caravan time for my first job... no doubt when bush operator Bob from Fort Population 150 sees my shiny BCIT "Airline Transitions" program diploma, he'll probably be so wowed and impressed that he'll make me Captain on his Caravan straight away... I figure I'll be at Air Canada in about two years from now, that is of course if Westjet doesn't pick me up first".

I love it!

privateer · Post by **privateer** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:27 pm

As for CYYJ?

Well I can tell you that nobody is moving outta there. Alot of long term instructors who ain't movin. Your best bet is the only two schools there, VFC and Juan Air