Metis landclaims/compensation
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Metis landclaims/compensation
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Last edited by sammy on Thu May 04, 2006 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dust Devil
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Dust Devil,
It appears that in this case it's even dumber. The Metis' claim to fame is that they are the product of French and English settlers and Indian women. Furthermore, they seem to think that as long as you have a fraction of Indian blood in subsequent generations, you're still Metis and have a claim.
How they figure they have any sort of claim is beyond me. This is just another land grab by opportunists. It cheapens the spirit of the real land claims by legitimate first nations people in my opinion.
It appears that in this case it's even dumber. The Metis' claim to fame is that they are the product of French and English settlers and Indian women. Furthermore, they seem to think that as long as you have a fraction of Indian blood in subsequent generations, you're still Metis and have a claim.
How they figure they have any sort of claim is beyond me. This is just another land grab by opportunists. It cheapens the spirit of the real land claims by legitimate first nations people in my opinion.
Well, if you drive a wagon with a band on it down main street, playing the "We're giving money away today" song, some folks are going to jump on.
Perhaps if previous generations had actually dealt with the issues surrounding the First Nations peoples in something other than a paternalistic band-aid manner, we wouldn't be in such a messy situation today.
Perhaps if previous generations had actually dealt with the issues surrounding the First Nations peoples in something other than a paternalistic band-aid manner, we wouldn't be in such a messy situation today.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
If they can show that they were screwed by the government more than the average person, they should be compensated ONCE, with enough to get them back on their feet. Not for a lifetime, not for all future generations, and not over and over. Same goes for native bands. If the government had acted responsibly and compensated the Metis and natives with what they deserved (they haven't), and if the native bands and Metis actually used what they've been given on education and community wellbeing, instead of wasting it on corruption, drugs, alcohol, and gambling (some of them have, too many of them haven't), this wouldn't be an issue any more.
I didn't screw over any natives, my parents didn't either. Why the hell should my kids have to pay more taxes to fix the problems that exist, which could have been fixed years ago?
I didn't screw over any natives, my parents didn't either. Why the hell should my kids have to pay more taxes to fix the problems that exist, which could have been fixed years ago?
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Dust Devil
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I have a metis card but it ain't got me shit yet. Hmmmmm mabey I'll head to winnipeg. Sorry CID but I think your in my houseCID wrote:Dust Devil,
It appears that in this case it's even dumber. The Metis' claim to fame is that they are the product of French and English settlers and Indian women. Furthermore, they seem to think that as long as you have a fraction of Indian blood in subsequent generations, you're still Metis and have a claim.
How they figure they have any sort of claim is beyond me. This is just another land grab by opportunists. It cheapens the spirit of the real land claims by legitimate first nations people in my opinion.
//=S=//
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
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AntiNakedMan
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Over the Horn
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just another pilot
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laticsdave
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Ah - the "some red coat/blue coat/rainbow-coloured coat soldier killed the 27th cousin, 97 times removed of my great-great-great-great-great aunt (who was about to die from natural causes)" clause.
What is it with the Canadian government that they seem to hold perpetual guilt for what happened several hundred years ago to the denizens of the Great White North? Is it because the "invaders" were European, and threfore their descendants must be punished for the next millennia?
You don't see the descendants of one tribe paying for the actions of their ancestors because they raped & murdered the members of a neighbouring tribe!
You don't see the descendants of the MacGregor clan sueing the descendants of the Campbell clan for taking their land back in the 16 & 1700's!
Maybe all the "McDonald's" (people) should sue the fast-food chain of the same name for giving their name a bad reputation!!!
I don't see why someone with 1/64th "native" blood should have ALL their PPL, CPL, Multi, IFR, & PPC training paid for by the tax payer (and not have to pay all the taxes that a non-injun pays).
I'm sure Wigwam Willy can offer up an explaination for this!!!!!!!!
I'm off to sue the fuckin' French for invading England back in 1066!
signed,
Angus McOatup - the Scottish cloakroom attendant
What is it with the Canadian government that they seem to hold perpetual guilt for what happened several hundred years ago to the denizens of the Great White North? Is it because the "invaders" were European, and threfore their descendants must be punished for the next millennia?
You don't see the descendants of one tribe paying for the actions of their ancestors because they raped & murdered the members of a neighbouring tribe!
You don't see the descendants of the MacGregor clan sueing the descendants of the Campbell clan for taking their land back in the 16 & 1700's!
Maybe all the "McDonald's" (people) should sue the fast-food chain of the same name for giving their name a bad reputation!!!
I don't see why someone with 1/64th "native" blood should have ALL their PPL, CPL, Multi, IFR, & PPC training paid for by the tax payer (and not have to pay all the taxes that a non-injun pays).
I'm sure Wigwam Willy can offer up an explaination for this!!!!!!!!
I'm off to sue the fuckin' French for invading England back in 1066!
signed,
Angus McOatup - the Scottish cloakroom attendant
It's called Football, not soccer!
The dutch paid the indian-americans 25 dollars, compound that annually and you get about if not more now 20+ trillion dollars...AntiNakedMan wrote:not quite sure what that means..........cyyz wrote:20 trillion dollars for manahatten... Yeah, they were screwed over, big time...
So when today, some "people" state that they're "ancestors" got a "raw deal" because they only got XX DOLLARS for a chunk of land the arguement is flawed because you don't see coke suing people for only paying 5 cents for a coke 50 years ago when it's the exact same arguement coke was being ripped off because today they're selling it for a dollar...
PS. if you lads want to make about a 50 billion dollars go and try to excavate one of those old none "native' bodies that they've found in South America and they pre-date the "natives."
Then you could class action suit their asses for genocide and the theft of the original first peoples land...
Then you could class action suit their asses for genocide and the theft of the original first peoples land...
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just another pilot
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AntiNakedMan
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Funny how CYYZ can rant on me calling someone black, but I guess aboriginal people aren't real people so it's ok to stereotype and put them down.
Not sure if any of you have ever heard of Metis 'Scrip'? Well this is something that was occuring in the 1870's (so not redcoats killing the 97th grandfather) right up to WWII.
Basically, Metis families that had lived in the Red River (and later on other locales), were told by the Canadian government that the land was being surveyed for White settlers, but they would be "compensated" with Scrip, basically a deed gauranteeing a certain tract of land.
Most scrip was issued in denominations of 100 acres, 160 acres, 180 acres, etc, or an EQUAL dollar value, ie. $100, $160, 180$ and so on.
Each piece of scrip was only good for a certain location, ie some plot of land usually in what we now call alberta. So, the Metis families were expected to pack up and just leave. Of course, that costs money as supplies have to be purchased, etc etc. Many Metis found it easier to simply sell their scrip to surveyers for a dollar value and purchase enough goods to make it to Saskatchewan and set up a farm on unsurveyed land.
Of course, the surveyers did not want to pay fair value (1 acre=1 dollar) because they wanted to make some money. Long story short, most of the surveyors were employed by what is now the Bank of Canada, who took said scrip that was bought cheap and sold it to the incoming settlers for around 8 dollars per acre.
Basically, by cheating the Metis people of their land and monies owed, we built a nation. Nation building is expensive, the Canadian government knew this and wasn't afraid to use underhanded tactics.
So our quality of life and financial stability in Canada can be attributed to us completely fucking over a segment of society. So excuse them if they might want a little bit of what they had to give up.
And if you think that bygones should be bygones, and we should all just live happily ever after and forget the past.... ask a Jewish person if they can forget the halocaust. The difference is, that war ended. There is still discrimination and a general lack of respect for basic human rights when people deal with Aboriginal people.
This is all I have the time to say right now. I'm sure some of you know the real truth and will enlighten my bleeding heart any time now.
Anti
Not sure if any of you have ever heard of Metis 'Scrip'? Well this is something that was occuring in the 1870's (so not redcoats killing the 97th grandfather) right up to WWII.
Basically, Metis families that had lived in the Red River (and later on other locales), were told by the Canadian government that the land was being surveyed for White settlers, but they would be "compensated" with Scrip, basically a deed gauranteeing a certain tract of land.
Most scrip was issued in denominations of 100 acres, 160 acres, 180 acres, etc, or an EQUAL dollar value, ie. $100, $160, 180$ and so on.
Each piece of scrip was only good for a certain location, ie some plot of land usually in what we now call alberta. So, the Metis families were expected to pack up and just leave. Of course, that costs money as supplies have to be purchased, etc etc. Many Metis found it easier to simply sell their scrip to surveyers for a dollar value and purchase enough goods to make it to Saskatchewan and set up a farm on unsurveyed land.
Of course, the surveyers did not want to pay fair value (1 acre=1 dollar) because they wanted to make some money. Long story short, most of the surveyors were employed by what is now the Bank of Canada, who took said scrip that was bought cheap and sold it to the incoming settlers for around 8 dollars per acre.
Basically, by cheating the Metis people of their land and monies owed, we built a nation. Nation building is expensive, the Canadian government knew this and wasn't afraid to use underhanded tactics.
So our quality of life and financial stability in Canada can be attributed to us completely fucking over a segment of society. So excuse them if they might want a little bit of what they had to give up.
And if you think that bygones should be bygones, and we should all just live happily ever after and forget the past.... ask a Jewish person if they can forget the halocaust. The difference is, that war ended. There is still discrimination and a general lack of respect for basic human rights when people deal with Aboriginal people.
This is all I have the time to say right now. I'm sure some of you know the real truth and will enlighten my bleeding heart any time now.
Anti
"It's not the size of the hammer, it's how you nail" - Kanga
But look how ludicrous the claim is. The Metis claim its their land. They are the product of mixed bloodlines between European settlers and native women. So why did these European settlers have a greater claim to the land than other Europeans? Don't "pure" native bloodlines have priority? Will the Metis share their winnings with the very people they took the land away from?Basically, by cheating the Metis people of their land and monies owed, we built a nation. Nation building is expensive, the Canadian government knew this and wasn't afraid to use underhanded tactics.
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AntiNakedMan
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CID, that is a good point, no doubt.
Except, Metis people are NOT the offspring of European settlers and native women.
They are the children of native women, and European FUR TRADERS. Many of whom left the country and returned to Europe, leaving the children to be raised by the mother's family (native groups).
Usually when the father remained in country it was because he was accepted by the mother's family and allowed to live with them, ON THEIR LAND. Also, many of the mean who "sowed oates" and then left were the higher ranking officials of the Hudson's Bay Company. Often the "country wives" of these men were "passed on" to the labourors who worked in the fur trade posts. These men usually opted to stay in country and raise their children with a mixture of French, Scot, Irish, English, etc culture with the mother's native culture.
In doing so they created a new culture, Metis, which had a claim to the land and was accepted by most Aboriginal groups at the time as brethren or cousins.
The accepted definition of Metis is "A person of mixed-blood ancestry who can trace their lineage to the Red River Settlement". The RR settlement is usually understood as being prior to the Red River Resistance of 1860, and prior to the large influx of settlers following the Resistance.
Of course this definition is problamatic, especially persons such as myself who's lineage originates in the NWT. But those issues are usually worked out.
I know this may have gone a little over and above your statement, but I hope it clears things up a bit.
The importance of a land base to a people should not be underestimated.... What would a farmer have if he had no fields? A logging town if they had no forests?
Anti
Except, Metis people are NOT the offspring of European settlers and native women.
They are the children of native women, and European FUR TRADERS. Many of whom left the country and returned to Europe, leaving the children to be raised by the mother's family (native groups).
Usually when the father remained in country it was because he was accepted by the mother's family and allowed to live with them, ON THEIR LAND. Also, many of the mean who "sowed oates" and then left were the higher ranking officials of the Hudson's Bay Company. Often the "country wives" of these men were "passed on" to the labourors who worked in the fur trade posts. These men usually opted to stay in country and raise their children with a mixture of French, Scot, Irish, English, etc culture with the mother's native culture.
In doing so they created a new culture, Metis, which had a claim to the land and was accepted by most Aboriginal groups at the time as brethren or cousins.
The accepted definition of Metis is "A person of mixed-blood ancestry who can trace their lineage to the Red River Settlement". The RR settlement is usually understood as being prior to the Red River Resistance of 1860, and prior to the large influx of settlers following the Resistance.
Of course this definition is problamatic, especially persons such as myself who's lineage originates in the NWT. But those issues are usually worked out.
I know this may have gone a little over and above your statement, but I hope it clears things up a bit.
The importance of a land base to a people should not be underestimated.... What would a farmer have if he had no fields? A logging town if they had no forests?
Anti
"It's not the size of the hammer, it's how you nail" - Kanga
OK. So do Metis have land claims in Europe too?They are the children of native women, and European FUR TRADERS. Many of whom left the country and returned to Europe, leaving the children to be raised by the mother's family (native groups).
By the way, AntiNakedMan, thanks for the clarifications. I'm learning more than I ever did about the Metis.
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AntiNakedMan
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Now you're being silly.
but I'll explain anyway.
If you have a child with a mexican woman, that does not make you a mexican. You do not become a mexican. You have no rights in the eyes of the mexican government. Depending upon if the child is born in mexico, than it is a mexican, and thus granted the rights associated with being a mexican.
Since the "metis" children were raised in the RED RIVER AREA which happens to now be winnipeg, by virtue of their MOTHER's native family's rights to the land, they gained "title" of it by raising their own families there.
Answer your question? And I really don't mind, I need the brain exercise.
Even though I know that was a bullshit question
Anti
but I'll explain anyway.
If you have a child with a mexican woman, that does not make you a mexican. You do not become a mexican. You have no rights in the eyes of the mexican government. Depending upon if the child is born in mexico, than it is a mexican, and thus granted the rights associated with being a mexican.
Since the "metis" children were raised in the RED RIVER AREA which happens to now be winnipeg, by virtue of their MOTHER's native family's rights to the land, they gained "title" of it by raising their own families there.
Answer your question? And I really don't mind, I need the brain exercise.
Even though I know that was a bullshit question
Anti
"It's not the size of the hammer, it's how you nail" - Kanga
Yes, that was a BS question. Good eye!Answer your question? And I really don't mind, I need the brain exercise.
Even though I know that was a bullshit question
However, why didn't the children of mixed blood familes adopt the rights of their mother? I think I know. The group were shunned by "pure" indians. So why does the "white man" have to pony up for the Indian people turning their backs on their own people?
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AntiNakedMan
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Why doesn't the French government run things in England?
Oh, because the people in France are of the French culture, and the people in England are of the English culture.
Metis people created, and adapted, their own culture to the world around them. This created a difference between them and First Nations people.
Metis people were not born with their hands out. They, like other Aboriginal peoples, were self-sufficient and self-governing. However, if you read my original post, you can see that the "land-claims" arugment, which is what I am discussing, stems from the use/misuse of Metis Scrip, and the subsequent marginalization of the Metis people.
If you do any reading on the Red River Resistance of 1870 you'll see that the Metis Nation was set up as a soveriegn nation because the HBC (the fur trading company holding Royal title to the land from 1769-1869) pulled out of North America due to the waning fur trade. The Canadian government had no legal claim to the land that the HBC vacated.
Therefore, the Metis Nation was set up as a Provisinal Government to secure both the rights of the French and English speaking Metis and Euro-settlers living in the area at this time. They created the Manitoba Bill of Rights, which in turn led to the Canadian Government creating the Manitoba Act, establishing the province of Manitoba. Then the Canadian gov't proceeded to ship settlers in, survey and not too politely tell the Metis to vacate or risk trial. This puts us back at my original topic, Metis Scrip.
So, to summize, First Nations were not the only ones to be screwed by the goverment within the last 150 years.
I hope this is making sense
Anti
Oh, because the people in France are of the French culture, and the people in England are of the English culture.
Metis people created, and adapted, their own culture to the world around them. This created a difference between them and First Nations people.
Metis people were not born with their hands out. They, like other Aboriginal peoples, were self-sufficient and self-governing. However, if you read my original post, you can see that the "land-claims" arugment, which is what I am discussing, stems from the use/misuse of Metis Scrip, and the subsequent marginalization of the Metis people.
Metisgenesis occured in the 1700's. There was no government to afford "rights" at this time, and at this point, Metis people did not need "rights". Due to the lack of a government that loves to classify and segregate people, the Metis were able to flourish and develop their own culture and government.However, why didn't the children of mixed blood familes adopt the rights of their mother?
If you do any reading on the Red River Resistance of 1870 you'll see that the Metis Nation was set up as a soveriegn nation because the HBC (the fur trading company holding Royal title to the land from 1769-1869) pulled out of North America due to the waning fur trade. The Canadian government had no legal claim to the land that the HBC vacated.
Therefore, the Metis Nation was set up as a Provisinal Government to secure both the rights of the French and English speaking Metis and Euro-settlers living in the area at this time. They created the Manitoba Bill of Rights, which in turn led to the Canadian Government creating the Manitoba Act, establishing the province of Manitoba. Then the Canadian gov't proceeded to ship settlers in, survey and not too politely tell the Metis to vacate or risk trial. This puts us back at my original topic, Metis Scrip.
So, to summize, First Nations were not the only ones to be screwed by the goverment within the last 150 years.
I hope this is making sense
Anti
"It's not the size of the hammer, it's how you nail" - Kanga
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Over the Horn
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Well maybe we all better get over "our different races" and wake up and realize we are all part of the human race, that suposedly migrated out of Africa many moons ago, if we did then I have just as much claim to this land as anyone else does because were all related in some way. All land claims of any sort will acheive is to create racial barriers and prejudice within our society.Due to the lack of a government that loves to classify and segregate people
Just imagine in 200yrs when everyone is a lighter shade of brown trying to figure out who's what race because at the rate the population is growing in the third world white and red is going to be a thing of the past.
