Are cockpit visits completely dead in Canada?

Pygmie · Post by **Pygmie** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:57 pm

Just wondering if cockpit visits are completely out of the question for anyone but employees of the airline these days, or if it's possible for other people in the industry to get in for a while?

737 Mech · Post by **737 Mech** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:58 pm

AOG only

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:08 pm

Heard a rumour that a retiring AC capt. was on his last flight and had brought the wife along for the ride. When the trip coming back was full he figured it would be okay to sneak her up front. Upon getting word of it.. He was fired and lost his pension and did not even get the usual retirement party.

Sad to hear those kinds of things.

goldeneagle · Post by **goldeneagle** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:44 pm

Rowdy wrote:Heard a rumour that a retiring AC capt. was on his last flight and had brought the wife along for the ride. When the trip coming back was full he figured it would be okay to sneak her up front. Upon getting word of it.. He was fired and lost his pension and did not even get the usual retirement party.

Sad to hear those kinds of things.

I'd like to think ugly stories like that are 'just a rumor'. Sad fact is, post 9-11 stupidity combined with post 2000 financial awakenings, stories like this dont sound as far fetched as they used to.

slowstream · Post by **slowstream** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:19 pm

Rowdy,

That's pure bullshit! What's worse is someone has to point it out.

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:02 pm

Hey, mines wide open!!! All the pax get to see what's happening..

Pygmie · Post by **Pygmie** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:42 pm

So I take it a visit up front's out of the question for an ATC trainee looking to get a glimpse into what's happening on the other end of the mike. . .

Really a shame how things have swung so far to the other extreme.

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:55 pm

slowstream wrote:Rowdy,

That's pure bullshit! What's worse is someone has to point it out.

slowstream, way to point blankly into the dark. How can you even call bs on that? Do you know anyone within acpa? Because I sure do. I said "rumour" as it's not first hand info to me and I won't say fact nor fiction unless I was actually there to witness it, hence me calling it a rumour.

BTW - They are very strict on the closed cockpit deal. I'm sure some Ac guys on here can shed light on it for you.

N2 · Post by N2 » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:10 pm

Who in hells name wants to visit the cockpit anyways...the whinning coming from the engines is bad enough...

55+ · Post by **55+** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:15 pm

N2 wrote:Who in hells name wants to visit the cockpit anyways...the whinning coming from the engines is bad enough...

Quite right. EFIS, FMS and whatever all look the same. Rather sit back with a cold beer and look out the window

prop2jet · Post by **prop2jet** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:26 pm

Access is denied unless (for operators that have authorized this in their Manual) you have been granted the authority by the VP Operations (DFO) and then, there has to be a valid reason for it.

Buzz Lightyear · Post by **Buzz Lightyear** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:45 pm

I remember the days when I could ride the jump seat with AC...it seems so far away.

Your only chance to get in now is to be an employee of the airline with an MOT...which means a fellow pilot or a flight attendant.

Don't even try the US, you might get shot at.

If you still want cockpit rides, fly European airlines where the captain still has his word to say on who is allowed to pass the door.

I was lucky enough to film a final approach and landing by night from the jump seat about a month ago, thanks to a nice captain.

Buzz

slowstream · Post by **slowstream** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:41 pm

Rowdy,

My list at ACPA is long as well and I'm well aware that you stated it as a rumor (Good on you) but the fact remains its still Bullshit as most rumors are because there passed on without any verification and sadley far too many people buy into them. I will also give you that a secure cockpit is looked at very seriosly but that's where it stops and the problems with your rumor are so numerous that you would likely not read them all.

C-FABH · Post by **C-FABH** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:33 pm

Buzz Lightyear wrote:Your only chance to get in now is to be an employee of the airline with an MOT...which means a fellow pilot or a flight attendant.

There are other exceptions -- exactly as prop2jet has stated, approval is required from the VP of Flight Ops first, but other employees can be given authorization.

Ops personnel (such as Flight Dispatch) are actually required to do a couple jumpseat fam flights per year.

Buzz Lightyear · Post by **Buzz Lightyear** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:04 am

There are other exceptions -- exactly as prop2jet has stated, approval is required from the VP of Flight Ops first, but other employees can be given authorization.

Which is a real pain in the butt.

I still know a few airlines (not in North America) where showing your ID card from the airline to the captain along with a little chat can be enough to welcome you behind the closed door. I must admit that presenting my Canadian CPL and FI license along wih the card makes it much easier but still, no need for pre-authorization from anybody else than the captain.

Banning the cockpit to regular passengers may be understandable after 9/11 but we went too far. What threat does the captain's wife or kid represent?! We went from one extreme to the other and I find it ridiculous.

I think cockpit visits (there's always a limit) was part of the fun of this job, especially with kids. I remember flights when there was a line up of parents and kids to see the pilots for a mere 2 minutes. Now you're seating for 12 hours behind your computer screens and the only conversation you have is with the guy next to you (and you'd better hope you go along well) or with a member of the cabin crew to ask for your meal and coffee....

I may be a romantic but I miss the old days.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Happy flying everyone

fogghorn · Post by **fogghorn** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:31 am

I saw a sign on a cocpit door, "Tresspassers will be Violated" - ala poke back mountain

.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:23 am

Borek pilots are allowed Jump Seats with Cdn North since there's some kind of interline agreement between the two in the north. I would imagine any tier 3 pilot can get jumpseat access with AC. Capin's discretion of course.

charlie_g · Post by **charlie_g** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:34 am

Regarding closed cockpits. Knee-jerk reaction to 9/11, or a reg that should have been there a long time ago? Are the Americans paranoid?(somewhat rhetorical) If it is such a concern, why haven't the europeans adopted it?

Was flying back from Toronto a while ago and the captain came on and said that because we were transiting US airspace, FAA regs require that passengers use the rear washroom so as not to have a group congregating by the cockpit door. I thought that was pretty f**king ridiculous. Apparently they don't have any faith in the new doors.

Btw, how do the new doors handle depressurization vs. blowout panels of the old style?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:45 am

" If it is such a concern, why haven't the europeans adopted it? "

The Europeans are more flexible with jump seat avaliability.