Question for ya,
when there is a guy on 4 mile final why will we not get cleared to back track and take off.
The other day(has happened numerous times)we sat holding short for about 5 minutes because there was a king air coming in, we could see them and could go no problem but we weren't aloud to, what gives?
what are your sops for the spacing, etc?
curious on some insite so we understand and aren't sitting in the plane going whats this moron doing here get us out..
Thanks
yqt tower!
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jonathan_tcu
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:59 pm
- Location: Timmins, ON
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Re: yqt tower!
A King Air takes 5 minutes to go 4 miles on approach? Must be one of those new homebuilt replicas I guess.flyinhigh wrote:Question for ya,
when there is a guy on 4 mile final why will we not get cleared to back track and take off.
The other day(has happened numerous times)we sat holding short for about 5 minutes because there was a king air coming in
I wonder whose judgement is out of whack here?
Not the controller's
flyinhigh
There are a multitude of possible reasons why you were not backtracked and departed ahead of traffic at 4 miles. Such as
Length of backtrack? 07 from the intersection = no way (unless traffic on final was a c150 etc).
Operator familiarity - some IFR operators are in no hurry to expedite their backtrack so they lose out in the future. Others are s**t hot and know the airfield well so we'll be confident they'll be away in time - don't know where you fit in here.
Speed of a/c on final - will you have enough time to get away ahead?
Runway occupancy - you wouldn't necessarily know if there was a vehicle / a/c crossing further down, they'd be on the ground freq.
Departure path clear?
Terminal stopped your departure for some reason? They can do this electronically in a millisecond.
And on and on......
Did you need the backtrack? How about "TWR, we see your traffic on final, we can take an immediate from "X" no backtrack required". Trust me you'll be on your way if there's a gap!
Generally, we don't want traffic at the hold if they can be airborne, I'm guessing there were mitigating circumstances. We do have trainees in the TWR right now so it may have been a case of indecision - I really don't know. However, you can probably arrange a tour to the TWR without much effort and there you can engage the controllers with any questions you may have. If I had a $ for every pilot who complained about an aspect of ATC and when asked "ever visited a TWR and seen it from their side?" said "no" well I'd have a lot more beer money than I have right now!! You'll find us a friendly, humorous [eh Doc
) bunch and you might learn something, as we often do from pilots. Just don't call us morons whilst you're there, it's a long way down from the balcony 
There are a multitude of possible reasons why you were not backtracked and departed ahead of traffic at 4 miles. Such as
Length of backtrack? 07 from the intersection = no way (unless traffic on final was a c150 etc).
Operator familiarity - some IFR operators are in no hurry to expedite their backtrack so they lose out in the future. Others are s**t hot and know the airfield well so we'll be confident they'll be away in time - don't know where you fit in here.
Speed of a/c on final - will you have enough time to get away ahead?
Runway occupancy - you wouldn't necessarily know if there was a vehicle / a/c crossing further down, they'd be on the ground freq.
Departure path clear?
Terminal stopped your departure for some reason? They can do this electronically in a millisecond.
And on and on......
Did you need the backtrack? How about "TWR, we see your traffic on final, we can take an immediate from "X" no backtrack required". Trust me you'll be on your way if there's a gap!
Generally, we don't want traffic at the hold if they can be airborne, I'm guessing there were mitigating circumstances. We do have trainees in the TWR right now so it may have been a case of indecision - I really don't know. However, you can probably arrange a tour to the TWR without much effort and there you can engage the controllers with any questions you may have. If I had a $ for every pilot who complained about an aspect of ATC and when asked "ever visited a TWR and seen it from their side?" said "no" well I'd have a lot more beer money than I have right now!! You'll find us a friendly, humorous [eh Doc
) bunch and you might learn something, as we often do from pilots. Just don't call us morons whilst you're there, it's a long way down from the balcony I usually ask for a "no backtrack required" launch on 25...this sure works for us...tower never seems to have an issue here...and it speeds things up. Can't put my finger on the "runway remaining" without the back track on 25, but since we never have more than 3500 feet where we're going anyway, we can live without it.
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invertedattitude
- Rank 10
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- Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:12 pm
As said if you stated to the tower controller that no backtrack was required, and you were ready for immediate departure, he likely would have sent you.
Keep in mind it's always the pilots responsibility to ensure there is enough available ashphalt/gravel/grass/fence to get off the ground.
Keep in mind it's always the pilots responsibility to ensure there is enough available ashphalt/gravel/grass/fence to get off the ground.
Squibbler....just a fast question. There is one guy that works the tower there in YQT who talks like "Machine Gun Kelly"...why? Correct me if I'm wrong here (I know you will, because you think I'm an anti-ATC bitch...which just is not true!) but most of YQT's traffic is student pilots? I mean, per movement, it's got to be a pretty high % of students...so why the really fast talk? Sounds like ORD on a Friday afternoon! It's just the one guy.
Re: yqt tower!
figures that there is some guy on here that has to break down how fast or how slow something is instead of just answering the question. Fine maybe he was 4 final, thats still plenty of time to get out, so now why not answer what the actual question was smartass!!lexx wrote:A King Air takes 5 minutes to go 4 miles on approach? Must be one of those new homebuilt replicas I guess.flyinhigh wrote:Question for ya,
when there is a guy on 4 mile final why will we not get cleared to back track and take off.
The other day(has happened numerous times)we sat holding short for about 5 minutes because there was a king air coming in
I wonder whose judgement is out of whack here?
Not the controller's
Re: yqt tower!
It's "plenty of time to get out" in your opinion.flyinhigh wrote:.......Fine maybe he was 4 final, thats still plenty of time to get out, so now why not answer what the actual question was smartass!!
Application for ATC can be found at http://www.navcanada.ca
Cheers
PS If you don't think calling controllers morons will get you a smartass reply, you're thicker than I thought.
Sometimes there are too many variables involved for someone who isn't trained in the job to understand.flyinhigh wrote:Hence why in the original post asked for the reasons so that we dont sit there bitching and we understand.
If I was to say to an ACA A340 captain, what is your EGT on number three I would expect him to tell me to F__K off. It's not my concern. Rest assured, we are abiding by the rules and keeping you safe.
If you want our opinion as to a possible explanation for the controller's decision fine. Just don't expect us to say the controller was wrong. We weren't involved in the situation so our input is limited.
