How valuable is instructor time?

Otter envy · Post by **Otter envy** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:44 pm

I am an instructor with almost 1000 hours, most of which is pic. What do you think my chances of getting a job?

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:00 am

depends who you talk to. some places think instructor time is great: Voyaguer for example. They love IFR instructors there. bush operation in fort simpson, maybe not the same opinion.

A better question might be to ask what companies like to hire instructors. Then you can find out if any of those companies interest you. if not, go find another entry level job. If you like the companies that hire instructors, then carry on, instruct IFR and concentrate on those few companies.

Raven20000 · Post by **Raven20000** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:10 am

My advice would be if your close to teaching on a twin stay and get your 500mpic, but if not don't be afraid to leave instructing to work the ramp somewhere to get yourself in to bigger planes, just make sure the turnover is fast, at this point you don't want to be on the ramp for 12 to 18 months.

It is also true alot of companies don't like intructors and some do. You'll also find some corporate companies don't care if it's bush or instructing time but alot of corporate like you to have over 1500hrs.

Otter envy · Post by **Otter envy** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:38 am

I have heard alot of different takes on this subject, for the most part they all say that you just don't know if an opperator likes Instructor untill you see the look in their eyes when he/she reads your resume. Seems really hit and miss. With the ammount of driving that is required to get to these opperators and the crazy cost of gas, I feel like I need a guide to who to apply to.

So any more advise would be great.

Miss Mae · Post by **Miss Mae** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:53 pm

It's hard to say...it all depends on the CP at the company and how valuable they think instructing time is. I have gone to interviews to have some CP's tell me that my instructing time was useless and others thought it was a benefit.

My advice..find some companies you are interested in working for and see what their point of view is on the subject.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:02 pm

You HAVE a job....nothing (at least very little) makes me want to toss yesterday's lunch more, than some flying instructor who thinks he has no job! So, quit your instructing gig...if that's all it is to you...you're doing your students a diservice!
Now, since you asked.....all your time IS PIC...and although it may not mean much to all the "hard-assed" bush rats around...you WILL qualify for your ATPL, years before your brothers and sisters working a dock/ramp situation! Maybe this is what has them so pissed about instructors? The "green monster"?
Bottom line....if you think instructing is NOT a job worth doing...get out!

cinical · Post by **cinical** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:00 am

Try Pacific Coastal in YVR....they hire quite a few instructors....but I like what whoever said about getting some Multi-PIC.......cause u don't want to be right seat forever.....may require some more short term pain....but try and get some multi-command, you'll be better off that way
my two cents

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:38 pm

1000 instructing is alright, 1500 is good but 2000 is too much unless you want a career instructing. Start the job hunt now, and by the time you reach 1500 you'll be right at the ATPL times and you'll probably get an offer somewhere. If no, then try the ramp, but see if you can get a right seat twin job first.

No harm in going right seat on a navajo or 402 size piston twin either. Especially since you can upgrade fast on those. Right seat turbine would be good too, but upgrade will be farther down the road. Get MPIC now if you can, if not start sending off resumes, calling, and doing road trips. Target a few companies not all of them. Make regular visits and someone will notice you.

I heard the "we've got a guy" line at least a hundred times then one day I heard "you have good timeing, we NEED a guy". A week later I had a Type rating on a King Air 200.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:40 pm

PS even though you and I both know you can probably fly just fine. If anybody gives you attitude about your "circuit" time, play dumb, laugh it off, and give them the "I know nothing you bush god" treatement and in no time they'll all forget you came from where you did.

zero · Post by **zero** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:59 pm

No we won't.

Otter envy · Post by **Otter envy** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:34 pm

[quote="Doc"]You HAVE a job....nothing (at least very little) makes me want to toss yesterday's lunch more, than some flying instructor who thinks he has no job! So, quit your instructing gig...if that's all it is to you...you're doing your students a diservice!

Hey Big Guy,
According to many people there is nothing worse than a former rampy who thinks the time he spent in the bush throwing bags and rolling barrels qualifies him for a job over any instructor out there. News flash...I am teaching flying because my instructor saw potencial in me to be able to pass on the knowelage he tought me. I am risking far more teaching novice pilots day in and day out than you did on your worst day TOSSING north of 60. So ease up, take a breath and stop imposing your half cocked ideoligy on a guy just asking a question.

ScudRunner · Post by **ScudRunner** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:40 pm

"we hot a guy"

Keep Marching one day you will find the rainbow

young grasshopper · Post by **young grasshopper** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:25 pm

Otter envy wrote:

I am risking far more teaching novice pilots day in and day out than you did on your worst day TOSSING north of 60

There are some good instructors, some bad ones, and some arrogant ones. Not sure which one you are, but maybe if you don't have anything good to say about a guy working his bag off "north of 60", you should keep your comments to yourself. Sorry about the rant folks.

Otter envy · Post by **Otter envy** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:48 am

I didn't include the respect that I do have for those who choose the bush pilot route. You have to respect anyone who is willing to move to a remote location, for little pay in the pursuit of a job that there is no guarantee of getting. That is about the love. `

So sorry to all of you out there who read the above and were offended, not the intention. I was just asking a question.

I was going to dispute the ego angle that was brought up, but I can't. Instructing goes to your head. In a hurry.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:39 am

co-joe wrote:1000 instructing is alright, 1500 is good but 2000 is too much unless you want a career instructing. Start the job hunt now, and by the time you reach 1500 you'll be right at the ATPL times and you'll probably get an offer somewhere. If no, then try the ramp, but see if you can get a right seat twin job first.

No harm in going right seat on a navajo or 402 size piston twin either. Especially since you can upgrade fast on those. Right seat turbine would be good too, but upgrade will be farther down the road. Get MPIC now if you can, if not start sending off resumes, calling, and doing road trips. Target a few companies not all of them. Make regular visits and someone will notice you.

I heard the "we've got a guy" line at least a hundred times then one day I heard "you have good timeing, we NEED a guy". A week later I had a Type rating on a King Air 200.

There CCA, you happy?

Dockjock · Post by **Dockjock** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:29 pm

Don't quit a flying job to work the ramp. Keep networking, keep applying, try getting some twin time. But do not quit to throw bags- you are logging time!
Oh and I think Doc was complementing you not insulting you.

bohica · Post by **bohica** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:53 pm

Me personally, get a new job ASAP. 1000 hours of instructing time is enough. Look to go north on singles or right seat of twin. And hope that you can stay south on some twin.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:25 pm

All the norhtern hereos hate instructors or anybody who didn't go north for all of their time. It's lifestyle jealousy mostly, HOWEVER, many instructors go up north and can't fly. You really gotta hit the ground running when you show up in the bush.

You need to be doing it cleaner and better than the other guy, now what is it with you...

Most of it is common sense stuff, like which end of the Herman Nelso goes in the plane, how to load and secure cargo, how to fly VFR when it's too low to go IFR, that sort of stuff.

stuckmike · Post by **stuckmike** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:59 pm

Look at Job Board.

Wolverine Air.

Need 1000 pic.

Apply.

Cheers

Sideshow · Post by **Sideshow** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:40 pm

This is a great thread! And not just cuz it hasn't been hijacked yet either...

Any way.
I'm wondering if there are any recent 'post instructors' out there with some stories about how they made thier move up the ladder.

adhc2 · Post by **adhc2** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:30 am

you cant log ramp time but instructor time does count, you want to keep your eye on the ball hang on to your job and start sending out resumes. Many employers need people who can teach as well as fly charters fire patrols etc. look for this type of operation as well as 703 ops. keep building your time there is a lot of movement goin on new opportunities popin up every day. Any real prospective boss will respect instruction time.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:54 am

Not necessarily, depends what kind of flying they do.

Kenny G · Post by **Kenny G** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:17 am

If a CP does not realize the work and skill level that an instructor puts into their flying, he is not worth working for. But in saying that, get 1500 TT and/or 200 MPIC and get out. Any time above that is worth less then a ramp job. Do not get stuck instructing.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

Switchfoot · Post by **Switchfoot** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:13 pm

[quote=]"Sideshow"I'm wondering if there are any recent 'post instructors' out there with some stories about how they made thier move up the ladder.[quote]

Instructing along with some 703 work (C-206 and Navajo). Then onto the BE-20. Good times!

For anyone who discounts instructor time; don't listen to them. Over half of the staff we have were at one time or another flight instructors. I do agree that you don't necessarily want more than 1500 hours or so instructing, but getting that PIC will not hurt.

Keep looking and networking. With all that is happening now in the industry, with some time, movement upwards in not an 'if', it's a 'when'.
Good luck!

Switchfoot.

cinical · Post by **cinical** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:29 am

I'll be the first to admit, I am a little jealous that i wasnt able to stay near home to get a flying job. I did move north to work dispatch to get a start.
I have come to terms with this fact, " I wasn't ABLE to get a first job down south." Wish I could have but thats the way it is I guess.

Its pretty ignorant to hate an instructor because they managed to stay south and u had to go north.

But the experience I had up North........I'll keep with me forever. And the bonds that I made with certain people are priceless and worth every cold weather morning.

How valuable is instructor time?

How valuable is instructor time?

instructer time