Last night for the first time I've heard positive proof about our predicament regarding world oil production. During an interview on the CBC it was confirmed that for the first time in history OPEC is pumping petroleum full out in the last 6 months. It was explained that the amount of oil produced has reached a maximum. This fact is aggravated by the growing need for oil not only by the industrialized countries but also from developing lands(ie. India & China)
I've explained to many people about this impending geological and economic phenomenon with typical results. People are always quick to point out that we can simply get electric cars or make fuel from corn, switchgrass etc.. Some of the older folks tell me that they heard it all before back in the 70's and they're cautious about believing anything that predicts doom and gloom. I'm not going to say what I see happening to this world on this post. However, I wish people would realise that our current gasoline prices are a reflection of peak oil.
Current Gasoline Prices and PeakOil
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
Yeah, by all accounts were really gonna be feeling some pain at the pumps by the end of the summer. Another few years of high prices and we could be neck deep in some serious economic do-do... assuming Bush and friends dont nuke Iran and send the whole world down the crapper first. We all know gas prices are a scam... like insurance they blame price increases to consumers on the rising costs of this and that, and other bs factors, and then post record profits.
We should start a Peak Oil Pool.... lets bet what the Average gas price in the country will be on the Saturday of each long weekend this summer.
My bets:
May $1.19
July $1.31
Aug $1.60 (Thank you hurricane season)
Sept $1.73
Average Canadian price today is $1.05 as per http://www.torontogasprices.com
We should start a Peak Oil Pool.... lets bet what the Average gas price in the country will be on the Saturday of each long weekend this summer.
My bets:
May $1.19
July $1.31
Aug $1.60 (Thank you hurricane season)
Sept $1.73
Average Canadian price today is $1.05 as per http://www.torontogasprices.com
My PT Cruiser is fueled by my Raw Sexual Energy.
"FLY THE AIRPLANE"!
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
$65/ml for my lovestuff.
"FLY THE AIRPLANE"!
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
-
200hr Wonder
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2212
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:52 pm
- Location: CYVR
- Contact:
I have read some about peak oil. Both from the doom and gloom camp and from the not to worry about it camp.
Being a strange duck this is what I see:
Today’s world required energy. That is the most precious of all commodities. With energy we can more or less do anything we want.
Our energy source of choice is Oil. This of course will not last. So we will need to come up with new sources of energy. In terms of the amount of energy that the human race consumes compared to that which is in our universe it is nothing. The issue we have is that the energy forms we like are dirty and polluting. Our current favorite being oil. There has to be other ways of achieving high energy density and then using that energy for our purposes that is much less polluting. Now of course we do not know what that is. But 150 years ago no one had any idea what Oil could do for us. The human race as a hole needs to come up with a replacement for oil before it runs out. And run out it will. So it is more of a race between oil becoming to expensive which will topple society and plunge us into another dark ages that could take many thousands of years to recover from or the human race will come up with a better way to harvest and store energy and we will continue to advance as a society.
Is it all doom and gloom? No, we are not dead yet however we need to be pouring massive amounts of money into alternate energy research. Think of all the money that is being spent on the Iraq “war”, that kind of money. Of course the lucky SOB who can perfect this new energy and bring it market will more or less be the most powerful human being on earth. So all of you who have a cold fusion generator in your basement, better start brining it to market soon.
Oh and on another note, more sun energy hits the earth in a month than the human race has consumed in its entire life time.
Being a strange duck this is what I see:
Today’s world required energy. That is the most precious of all commodities. With energy we can more or less do anything we want.
Our energy source of choice is Oil. This of course will not last. So we will need to come up with new sources of energy. In terms of the amount of energy that the human race consumes compared to that which is in our universe it is nothing. The issue we have is that the energy forms we like are dirty and polluting. Our current favorite being oil. There has to be other ways of achieving high energy density and then using that energy for our purposes that is much less polluting. Now of course we do not know what that is. But 150 years ago no one had any idea what Oil could do for us. The human race as a hole needs to come up with a replacement for oil before it runs out. And run out it will. So it is more of a race between oil becoming to expensive which will topple society and plunge us into another dark ages that could take many thousands of years to recover from or the human race will come up with a better way to harvest and store energy and we will continue to advance as a society.
Is it all doom and gloom? No, we are not dead yet however we need to be pouring massive amounts of money into alternate energy research. Think of all the money that is being spent on the Iraq “war”, that kind of money. Of course the lucky SOB who can perfect this new energy and bring it market will more or less be the most powerful human being on earth. So all of you who have a cold fusion generator in your basement, better start brining it to market soon.
Oh and on another note, more sun energy hits the earth in a month than the human race has consumed in its entire life time.
Yes however on another side note: If we were to replace 10% of our present consumption with either solar, or wind (a derivative of solar) we would be sucking enough energy out of the atmosphere to make MAJOR changes in global weather patters…. The Earth simulator in Japan has been trying to crunch the numbers on what would happen, but apparently 35Teraflops isn’t enough CPU power…200hr Wonder wrote: Oh and on another note, more sun energy hits the earth in a month than the human race has consumed in its entire life time.
The issue really isn’t making the power; we can do that right now (nuclear) BTW: environmentalists now like nuclear…….
There really is very little to worry about it, clean, cheep, relatively safe; especially if we can learn to stop killing each other…
Btw the test bed EU Hot fusion reactor is supposed to go online soon; so that’s a double bonus to go atomic..
The issue is a method of storing the energy for cars etc…..
unfortunately there arn’t too many things we can use (at present) however the most promising is probably Lithium nano particle batteries… A friend of mine is finishing his PHD at UBC and managed to get his hands on one of these experimental badboys…. 12v DC weighs one kilo and has 2.0kAhs… however nanno technology has a long way to go for them to be price competitive.
NOTE: to those suggesting Hydrogen… won’t work globally: H is a very small molecule, so small in fact that the biggest issue has been storing it; put it in a tank, it bleeds out through the molecular bonds of the metal. SO some smart cookie made a tank filled with a substance so when H is pumped in it goes into a kind of suspension (like concrete and acetylene gas.) bleeding tank issue solved……. BUT at some point it has to be taken out of suspension and then taken to the engine/fuel cell etc… at which point there WOULD be SOME bleeding; very minimal so the user wouldn’t know; BUT some of that gas would escape; some of it would float up to the outer edge of the atmosphere (It DOES have an atomic weight of 1.0) where it would bond with O2…. Creating vapor far higher than is normally found… If we replaced the global fleets with H than the total leakage in the vehicles , at the H manufacturing plant, and at the fuel pump would equate to a LOT of H being dumped into the atmosphere. This would act like a “super green house” and supposedly according to some smart people would be levels of magnitude more damaging than the stuff we are pumping out now…
So that coupled with massive climate change:
•rising water (in 20y Bangladesh will be 80% flooded: that’s a LOT of displaced people)
•weather changes, North Americas breadbasket goes to dessert, Western Europe becomes Greenland, equator becomes too hot to grow anything; forests die, thus more CO production…
•People with no land, no food, and big guns….
So
less people, say 10% of what we have now; and we should as a species be able to safely ride it out… OR we can keep on having kids, and be stuck with trying to feed 8 billion people with most of the planet in the dung hole…. Nature will solve its self, but there is going to be a lot of suffering in the process…..OR I could be full of shit…… your call; but I think im going to buy some land in the Rockies… then grow some palm trees and sell the land in 30s as the new seaside California…
-
200hr Wonder
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2212
- Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:52 pm
- Location: CYVR
- Contact:
Yup hydrogen is not going to work due to the issues you pointed out, but who says that the the problem with energy Density, which is really what we have here, is not something that has not even remotly been thought of... the world as a whole just needs to stiumlate that thought. I am sure it is out there we jsut need to find it.
Though I agree we really need to curb population growth. Though nature seems to be helping with that. HIV/AIDS, Bird Flu, and so on. Right now there are several African countries with a negative population growth due mainly to HIV/AIDS.
Though I agree we really need to curb population growth. Though nature seems to be helping with that. HIV/AIDS, Bird Flu, and so on. Right now there are several African countries with a negative population growth due mainly to HIV/AIDS.
However HIV/AIDS, Bird Flue, Mad Cow, and Hurricanes etc..
Don’t stand a chance in hell of causing any major impact on global population. Lets say 1/2 of Africa dies off. Africa really isn’t that densely populated, Africa has what? 600,000,000 Even if it lost 300,000,000 people(unrealistically bad worst case scenario), the vast majority of those people will still have had kids; and we aren’t getting even remotely close to pop levels that are actually sustainable. Truth is, there is very little that would be able to start getting our numbers down other than a global calamity (big rock hit earth.) Even if the US gets into a nuclear pissing match with say Iran, unlikely more than 100,000,000 people would die. That tsunami, killed what? 100,000 people, that’s a piss in the ocean… There is very little out there that will cut our numbers drastically enough so we don’t get into a situation of global starvation (which will cut our numbers.) But one would think that at this level of intelligence we should be able to foresee an issue like this and perhaps….. just perhaps…. STOP BEING SELFISH AND HAVEING KIDS!!! However you are NEVER going to get that attitude to fly with the general public, and im sure I even offended some people on this forum with that attitude… So hence my original post…. We’re Fucked…
Edit:
Addition,
Your right 200hr wonder, energy storage in a medium that has sufficient density is probably one of the biggest problems we are going to face; however there are ways to solve it; rail….. switch everything over to rail and run people/cargo solely by this means… let the highway system crumble. Then for cargo vessels, switch them all over to reactors. (However those lithium nanno particle batteries are supposed to be approaching an energy density similar to that of gasoline…)
Don’t stand a chance in hell of causing any major impact on global population. Lets say 1/2 of Africa dies off. Africa really isn’t that densely populated, Africa has what? 600,000,000 Even if it lost 300,000,000 people(unrealistically bad worst case scenario), the vast majority of those people will still have had kids; and we aren’t getting even remotely close to pop levels that are actually sustainable. Truth is, there is very little that would be able to start getting our numbers down other than a global calamity (big rock hit earth.) Even if the US gets into a nuclear pissing match with say Iran, unlikely more than 100,000,000 people would die. That tsunami, killed what? 100,000 people, that’s a piss in the ocean… There is very little out there that will cut our numbers drastically enough so we don’t get into a situation of global starvation (which will cut our numbers.) But one would think that at this level of intelligence we should be able to foresee an issue like this and perhaps….. just perhaps…. STOP BEING SELFISH AND HAVEING KIDS!!! However you are NEVER going to get that attitude to fly with the general public, and im sure I even offended some people on this forum with that attitude… So hence my original post…. We’re Fucked…
Edit:
Addition,
Your right 200hr wonder, energy storage in a medium that has sufficient density is probably one of the biggest problems we are going to face; however there are ways to solve it; rail….. switch everything over to rail and run people/cargo solely by this means… let the highway system crumble. Then for cargo vessels, switch them all over to reactors. (However those lithium nanno particle batteries are supposed to be approaching an energy density similar to that of gasoline…)
Yes and no. It's true that prices reflect the fears and speculations of what might happen. However, these high petroleum prices are indicative of the tight oil supply. Saudi Arabia used to be a swing oil operator but no more. If there's a sudden surge of demand then we will feel the pinch. Saudi Arabia will no longer be able to open the spiggot as wide as we want.CarbIce wrote:We all know gas prices are a scam... like insurance they blame price increases to consumers on the rising costs of this and that, and other bs factors, and then post record profits.
-
North Shore
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 5627
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:47 pm
- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
Actually, Africa isn't really the problem - we are. Your average African uses a fraction of the global resources that we North Americans do. Do you see vast hordes of skinny black people jet-setting around to tourist spots around the world - Hell, no! but lots of fat white people...Africa has what? 600,000,000
While Nuclear is an attractive option, I really don't see how it will work, unless you are talking fusion. One of the problems that we are facing is peak oil - replacing that energy source with another will only lead us into another "peak" situation - that of peak Uranium. All the while saddling us with a radioactive waste problem for many years into the future. In terms of fusion, I suppose, eventually, we'd run out of fuel (Deuterium, IIRC) to fuse, but as the world's surface is 75% H2O, it probably wouldn't be for a little while yet..The issue really isn’t making the power; we can do that right now (nuclear) BTW: environmentalists now like nuclear…….
Probably the least of our problems in terms of the impact of Oil on our lives - you can probably ride your bike to work every day, but do you grow your own food? The average food item on our table in North America comes from something like 500 miles away - generally driven by truck. Most of the grain that we eat is sown by tractor, fertilized by petro-chemicals, and harvested by combines - an effect that is doubled when you think in terms of grain-fed beef. Ever bought tomatoes/strawberries/lettuce/kiwifruit etc in February? Ever wonder, or even think about the journey it took to get into your fridge??really gonna be feeling some pain at the pumps
Walker: Source of this?? I'd be interested to read it. I was always under the understanding that there was so much solar energy striking the earth's surface every day that the amount that we need to harvest for our needs is a pittance by comparison...Yes however on another side note: If we were to replace 10% of our present consumption with either solar, or wind (a derivative of solar) we would be sucking enough energy out of the atmosphere to make MAJOR changes in global weather patters
Check Pm's about the BD reactor...
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Africa:
I totally agree, if we look at things on an pollution/consumption scale, we (North Americans) are by FAR the worst. The average percapita ecological footprint of Africa is .0166 ha/cap so each person consumes .0166ha of land, for pollution sinks, resources, food etc… where as in the US the number is (1997) 10.3624ha/cap Canada btw is 7.7625ha/cap. Hence why it is (in my mind) morally reprehensible to breed in this day and age. Having children is perhaps IMHO the most selfish and irresponsible thing one could do in 2006, and I don’t care if you are an African or a Canadian.
SO one American is the equivalent of 624.241 Africans, one Canadian baby has the same effect on the environment as 467.620 African babies…. Food for thought….
Nuclear:
One way or the other this is really our only feasible option IMO.
Now it would be REALLLY nice if there’s a particle physicist out there who can correct any of my science, but this is my understanding: “spent” uranium from a traditional fission reactor has only burnt like 3% of its capacity, IE there is still 97% energetic material in that fuel rod. The fuel CAN be reused; the only issue is each time its run through a reactor it becomes more and more unstable until it eventually becomes Plutonium. We DO have reactors that can safely burn plutonium; and after THEY have recycled the fuel a few times it becomes relatively inert material (compared to what we are sticking in the mountains.) The ultimate issue is creating a whole shit load of weapons grade fissable material isn’t such a hot idea in the geo political climate; however if we managed to figure out a way to GET ALONG, then hell there is no waste problem with reactors; run the fuel till its dead. Also compared to the other options sticking the stuff in the ground in some S-hole of the planet is maybe better (dependent on opinions) than other options (die etc…) Furthermore the global impact of one or two accidents is also very small; stick the reactors on the “bad” side of town where the wind blows the “other way”
Now there are other potential options: There has been a lot of research in recent years. I had the opportunity to tour all of the EU institutions 2 summers ago; The commission, Parliament, EIB, ECB, committee of the regions, ECJ, etc…. while I was at an EESC meeting for the transport and energy ministries we were introduced to the Hot fusion reactor ITER, by an Irish fellow who came up with the idea; (here’s a rather poor wikipedia entry on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER) essentially, you take tritium (from an accelerator) deuterium (derived from sea water) and a specific isotope of Lithium... the fuel is super super super heated while being suspended by a MASSIVE magnetic field (it cant touch anything because its so fucking hot something on the range of 100 million K) then it is injected into the reactor vessel where the rest of the fuel is; there is then a nice stable release of energy, some of which is collected and used to heat the next “injection” of fuel… The advantage is the reactor could never have a cascading failure because each “shot” of fuel has to be readied first, worst case scenario shut down the injector; collapse the super magnets and the whole thing shuts down. Even if there was a reactor breach, the radiation leakage would be on the scale of evacuating the facility not the surrounding city. The ultimate radioactive byproducts (waste) have a half-life of like 15 years. AND the globe has sufficient surpluses of fuel to supply us for a few thousand years. However this IS just an experimental reactor so we will see how it pans out…
Food:
100% right again, not to mention most of our “super ferts” come from oil…. Industrialized aroponics, may be a solution…. Or my personal fav (super genetic monster that eats garbage and grows meat that can be harvested like a plant) but in all realism forget it, lower the pop then you have a chance…. (although for transport… if you have a good rail system that “may” solve some issues)
Wind/solar:
This comes from a 4 juried articles that I know of…. ALL of which have magically been swept under the rug, “although they were NOT contested.” I don’t remember the names, and I just spent 30 min at the uvic libraries gateway and can’t find them, but ill ask one of my proffs and get back to you…. PS I also have a friend at Scribbs who was researching this very thing, and she concluded the same. ya sure there IS a lot of wind out there… and ya a LOT of sun hits us, but we also burn a LOT of energy and its a delicate balance… not to say it wouldn’t work, we just shouldn’t kid ourselves into thinking if we through these suckers up all will be ok… it will be a whole nother ball of wax to deal with (not saying we shouldn’t do it…) just saying its not as “eco” as some would like to delude themselves into thinking…
I totally agree, if we look at things on an pollution/consumption scale, we (North Americans) are by FAR the worst. The average percapita ecological footprint of Africa is .0166 ha/cap so each person consumes .0166ha of land, for pollution sinks, resources, food etc… where as in the US the number is (1997) 10.3624ha/cap Canada btw is 7.7625ha/cap. Hence why it is (in my mind) morally reprehensible to breed in this day and age. Having children is perhaps IMHO the most selfish and irresponsible thing one could do in 2006, and I don’t care if you are an African or a Canadian.
SO one American is the equivalent of 624.241 Africans, one Canadian baby has the same effect on the environment as 467.620 African babies…. Food for thought….
Nuclear:
One way or the other this is really our only feasible option IMO.
Now it would be REALLLY nice if there’s a particle physicist out there who can correct any of my science, but this is my understanding: “spent” uranium from a traditional fission reactor has only burnt like 3% of its capacity, IE there is still 97% energetic material in that fuel rod. The fuel CAN be reused; the only issue is each time its run through a reactor it becomes more and more unstable until it eventually becomes Plutonium. We DO have reactors that can safely burn plutonium; and after THEY have recycled the fuel a few times it becomes relatively inert material (compared to what we are sticking in the mountains.) The ultimate issue is creating a whole shit load of weapons grade fissable material isn’t such a hot idea in the geo political climate; however if we managed to figure out a way to GET ALONG, then hell there is no waste problem with reactors; run the fuel till its dead. Also compared to the other options sticking the stuff in the ground in some S-hole of the planet is maybe better (dependent on opinions) than other options (die etc…) Furthermore the global impact of one or two accidents is also very small; stick the reactors on the “bad” side of town where the wind blows the “other way”
Now there are other potential options: There has been a lot of research in recent years. I had the opportunity to tour all of the EU institutions 2 summers ago; The commission, Parliament, EIB, ECB, committee of the regions, ECJ, etc…. while I was at an EESC meeting for the transport and energy ministries we were introduced to the Hot fusion reactor ITER, by an Irish fellow who came up with the idea; (here’s a rather poor wikipedia entry on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER) essentially, you take tritium (from an accelerator) deuterium (derived from sea water) and a specific isotope of Lithium... the fuel is super super super heated while being suspended by a MASSIVE magnetic field (it cant touch anything because its so fucking hot something on the range of 100 million K) then it is injected into the reactor vessel where the rest of the fuel is; there is then a nice stable release of energy, some of which is collected and used to heat the next “injection” of fuel… The advantage is the reactor could never have a cascading failure because each “shot” of fuel has to be readied first, worst case scenario shut down the injector; collapse the super magnets and the whole thing shuts down. Even if there was a reactor breach, the radiation leakage would be on the scale of evacuating the facility not the surrounding city. The ultimate radioactive byproducts (waste) have a half-life of like 15 years. AND the globe has sufficient surpluses of fuel to supply us for a few thousand years. However this IS just an experimental reactor so we will see how it pans out…
Food:
100% right again, not to mention most of our “super ferts” come from oil…. Industrialized aroponics, may be a solution…. Or my personal fav (super genetic monster that eats garbage and grows meat that can be harvested like a plant) but in all realism forget it, lower the pop then you have a chance…. (although for transport… if you have a good rail system that “may” solve some issues)
Wind/solar:
This comes from a 4 juried articles that I know of…. ALL of which have magically been swept under the rug, “although they were NOT contested.” I don’t remember the names, and I just spent 30 min at the uvic libraries gateway and can’t find them, but ill ask one of my proffs and get back to you…. PS I also have a friend at Scribbs who was researching this very thing, and she concluded the same. ya sure there IS a lot of wind out there… and ya a LOT of sun hits us, but we also burn a LOT of energy and its a delicate balance… not to say it wouldn’t work, we just shouldn’t kid ourselves into thinking if we through these suckers up all will be ok… it will be a whole nother ball of wax to deal with (not saying we shouldn’t do it…) just saying its not as “eco” as some would like to delude themselves into thinking…
Nothing will change until people's attitudes change. Everyone thinks it's the "other guys" responsibility to find the solution. In reality it is everyone’s problem and if we all did our little bit it would help big time. Simple little changes like walking to the corner store instead of driving,
I would love to convert my place to solar and wind power but the costs are still too prohibitive. As for my next car it’s going to be a Toyota Prius.
I would love to convert my place to solar and wind power but the costs are still too prohibitive. As for my next car it’s going to be a Toyota Prius.
Putting money into aviation is like wiping before you poop....it just don't make sense!
Ok, youre right... I was being a little too general. I understand the driving factors behind oil prices and the basics of supply and demand.. I was referring more to the .10c price variations that happen overnight when the price of crude remains relatively unchanged.Shtinky wrote:Yes and no. It's true that prices reflect the fears and speculations of what might happen. However, these high petroleum prices are indicative of the tight oil supply. Saudi Arabia used to be a swing oil operator but no more. If there's a sudden surge of demand then we will feel the pinch. Saudi Arabia will no longer be able to open the spiggot as wide as we want.CarbIce wrote:We all know gas prices are a scam... like insurance they blame price increases to consumers on the rising costs of this and that, and other bs factors, and then post record profits.
The food issue is definitely our biggest concern... and our current mass producing farming practices are destroying the soil. Saw an article recently regarding Africa saying that in a short time the soil will not be fertile enough to support the population, and the practces here in NA are taking us down the same road.
Read another interesting article, cant recall the source, but it said that one of the first genetically modified foods was the peanut. It went on to talk about how more and more kids now are developing severe and deadly allergies to peanuts... brought up some interesting points about the future of food given the number of genetically modified items in the stores today. Noone seems to be having the same extreme reactions to the franken tomatoes yet, but I guess well see in a few years.
Attitude changes are a must, but we also need to change the way we develop our towns and cities. We pave over prime farmland to build houses or malls on every inch of space, and its all geared around cars. We are expected to drive everywhere we need to go... to work, to get groceries, to take the kids to the park. Cities should be designed to allow people to live, work and play in their local area. Developers should be required to build smaller, sustainable housing incorporating passive solar properties, planners should incorporate more green space and allow for public gardens, etc, etc
In reality, we would need to change alot more about the way we live today to come even close to sustainable. But as you said, since people always see things as 'the other guys problem' I doubt were collectively smart enough to get there before we completely FUBAR the Earth.
Read another interesting article, cant recall the source, but it said that one of the first genetically modified foods was the peanut. It went on to talk about how more and more kids now are developing severe and deadly allergies to peanuts... brought up some interesting points about the future of food given the number of genetically modified items in the stores today. Noone seems to be having the same extreme reactions to the franken tomatoes yet, but I guess well see in a few years.
Attitude changes are a must, but we also need to change the way we develop our towns and cities. We pave over prime farmland to build houses or malls on every inch of space, and its all geared around cars. We are expected to drive everywhere we need to go... to work, to get groceries, to take the kids to the park. Cities should be designed to allow people to live, work and play in their local area. Developers should be required to build smaller, sustainable housing incorporating passive solar properties, planners should incorporate more green space and allow for public gardens, etc, etc
In reality, we would need to change alot more about the way we live today to come even close to sustainable. But as you said, since people always see things as 'the other guys problem' I doubt were collectively smart enough to get there before we completely FUBAR the Earth.
Not that I'm completly disagreeing with the peak oil thing, but remember, University people make money off scaring people. The more people you scare, the more liekly government will fund their research.
Remember, there are a lot of alternative petroleum derivatives. My bet is in 5-10 years, we'll look back at this time and laugh at all the suckers who bought into this doom and gloom scenario (remember how serious Y2K was?).
Remember, there are a lot of alternative petroleum derivatives. My bet is in 5-10 years, we'll look back at this time and laugh at all the suckers who bought into this doom and gloom scenario (remember how serious Y2K was?).
Whether you agree with peak oil or not, if 49% of the world population used the same amount of oil per capita as the United States the global consumption would be around 250 million barrels of oil per day. A stark contrast to the 85 million barrels of global consumption today. I guess at that point we could call it "global burning". Should be an interesting century.
Please tell me why it is that everytime oil goes up in price some poor sucker and what he drives in the west is to blame for most of it? What about all the people who don't own a car and/or like to "dump" on somebody and what they drive, yet they stand there and talk about it with their coffee mugs full and having used CoffeeMate? Have they ever looked at what comprises and makes-up CoffeeMate?. It burns really great because it got no milk or milk by-products in it and is 100% oil by-products. Takes a lot of CoffeeMate to equal a liter of gas though, but it's a starter. So let's move-on then.
Before anyone starts "dumping" on car/ruck drivers anywhere they better stop and make a list of just the items that THEY know of that are made from oil or a by-product of oil. Anyone of the 'experts' I hear know how many freighters and ocean liners there are in the world?..........and they aren't running on peanut butter either. So all the 'experts' can get off my bloody back and those of others and what we drive until they solve the other ways that we use oil and how to replace it.
God I get tired of this continual horseshit about how much oil the west is using and how much the US is using. We are the most industrialized part of the world here in the west and use oil and oil-by-products in a million different ways other than sticking a hose in our gas tanks. Of course we are going to burn the most and now that China and the Indian Sub-Continent are fast becoming industrialized also, they are also using oil and oil by-products in the same ways we are. The rise would also be taking place even if there wasn't a damn car in China or the Indian Sub-Continent because again, oil is needed in a host of other ways and most people forget all about those ways........or don't even know.
So we're going to discover ways of using hydrogen to run our autos and other machinery? Great deal, but while we're at it, we better dream-up a whole other bunch of ways to make all those other things that we presently use oil by-products for besides running yours and my jalopy. The US inports 55% of it's oil needs and a full 35% of that goes for making other things that have nothing whatsoever to do with gas or diesel fuels.
Someday, far into the future, they may well have ALL autos and trucks running on hydrogen or something else. The demand for that type of fuel will also start to rise and the Law of Supply and Demand will once again "kick-in" as it does for everything else. When that happens then the price for that kind of gas-alternative will also begin to rise and people will start screaming all over again. Meanwhile, don't tell the ladies that they can't get pantyhose anymore for starters or you'll discover that 52% of the Canadian population has a fair amount of power to jam that comment up some PhD's friggin ass.. I'll leave that order to the ladies to someone a lot braver than me......or more stupid......like a politician maybe.
Before anyone starts "dumping" on car/ruck drivers anywhere they better stop and make a list of just the items that THEY know of that are made from oil or a by-product of oil. Anyone of the 'experts' I hear know how many freighters and ocean liners there are in the world?..........and they aren't running on peanut butter either. So all the 'experts' can get off my bloody back and those of others and what we drive until they solve the other ways that we use oil and how to replace it.
God I get tired of this continual horseshit about how much oil the west is using and how much the US is using. We are the most industrialized part of the world here in the west and use oil and oil-by-products in a million different ways other than sticking a hose in our gas tanks. Of course we are going to burn the most and now that China and the Indian Sub-Continent are fast becoming industrialized also, they are also using oil and oil by-products in the same ways we are. The rise would also be taking place even if there wasn't a damn car in China or the Indian Sub-Continent because again, oil is needed in a host of other ways and most people forget all about those ways........or don't even know.
So we're going to discover ways of using hydrogen to run our autos and other machinery? Great deal, but while we're at it, we better dream-up a whole other bunch of ways to make all those other things that we presently use oil by-products for besides running yours and my jalopy. The US inports 55% of it's oil needs and a full 35% of that goes for making other things that have nothing whatsoever to do with gas or diesel fuels.
Someday, far into the future, they may well have ALL autos and trucks running on hydrogen or something else. The demand for that type of fuel will also start to rise and the Law of Supply and Demand will once again "kick-in" as it does for everything else. When that happens then the price for that kind of gas-alternative will also begin to rise and people will start screaming all over again. Meanwhile, don't tell the ladies that they can't get pantyhose anymore for starters or you'll discover that 52% of the Canadian population has a fair amount of power to jam that comment up some PhD's friggin ass.. I'll leave that order to the ladies to someone a lot braver than me......or more stupid......like a politician maybe.
Last edited by LH on Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
-
Driving Rain
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:10 pm
- Location: At a Tanker Base near you.
- Contact:
-
scubasteve
- Rank 5
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:05 pm
- Location: BC
- Contact:
Apparently bio-diesel isnt that hard to do - they even made one on TRUCKS! or one of those shows. It was actually a kit and uses old deep fryer grease (which there is loads of in our society) and converts to bio-diesel. Wasnt even that much for the kit I dont think. could have one in your garage just for your own usage.
I also think that if all houses had a windmill to supplement the energy used it would lower consumption a good amount. Even tho we are one of the largest oil producers (or have the potential), Canada should be more forward thinking - we have the people to come up with the ideas.
I also think that if all houses had a windmill to supplement the energy used it would lower consumption a good amount. Even tho we are one of the largest oil producers (or have the potential), Canada should be more forward thinking - we have the people to come up with the ideas.
The only thing that you have to do in order to run a diesel on vegetable oil is to install an in-line fuel heater and different fuel filter (due to the higher viscosity). With compression that high, a diesel can burn just about anything if you set it up correctly.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
