Oxymoron, probably.
But anyways, any cheap aviation lawyers you could pm in the GTA.
or some decent ones that could answer a 1 quick question for me, for free?
Cheap Aviation Lawyer
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Out of Control
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I've never even heard of a (private sector) lawyer that had a clue about the CARs, the Aeronautics Act, the Tribunal, Federal Court, and the various precedents. I'm not sure there are too many in the public sector, either.
Anyone with a browser, that can find and read the CARs and the Aeronautics Act, knows more than any lawyer you're likely to find at any price.
It's important to keep in mind the incredible subjectivity of judges. As my Daddy once told me, "Son, judges are like free-range chickens. You just never know what direction they're going to head off in." No lawyer can honestly and accurately predict the outcome.
Litmus test for aviation lawyer, to establish his bona fides: ask him to rattle off the precedents for flight visibility. Betcha he won't have a clue.
Q.E.D.
Anyone with a browser, that can find and read the CARs and the Aeronautics Act, knows more than any lawyer you're likely to find at any price.
It's important to keep in mind the incredible subjectivity of judges. As my Daddy once told me, "Son, judges are like free-range chickens. You just never know what direction they're going to head off in." No lawyer can honestly and accurately predict the outcome.
Litmus test for aviation lawyer, to establish his bona fides: ask him to rattle off the precedents for flight visibility. Betcha he won't have a clue.
Q.E.D.
No! There are tremendous advantages in representing yourself at court.But I'm guessing you'd appear to have a better "case" if presented by a lawyer
The legal people hate it, but they CANNOT deny you the right to represent yourself in court.
Most of the time, you will do a FAR better job of presenting your case than any lawyer, who is simply a very expensive hired mouthpiece. All a lawyer can do is format the presentation and observe protocol.
It's a very important lesson to learn that YOU are in charge of strategy, not your lawyer.
Your lawyer will not know as much as you do about the case, or the regulations. He will make many mistakes, which will piss you off. You will make mistakes, too, but they will be fewer and less expensive than his.
I have represented myself at the Tribinal Review, Tribunal Appeal, Federal Court (review) and Federal Court of Appeals. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It's kinda weird, but that's what you've gotta do, if you wanna fly serious aerobatics in this country.
Regardless, it's really very simple:
There's the legislation: the Aeronautics Act, and the Canadian Aviation Regulations.
There's a charge, in respect of a regulation.
There is evidence, in respect of a charge.
You can argue the penalty, as per Ch 11 of the enforcement manual.
There are precedents that you can refer to. Higher court precedents trump lower court judges.
That's it, that's all she wrote. This is not rocket science. You know how to use google. Spend a few hours browing the Aeronautics Act and the CARs.
There are some tricks on appeal but you're a long way from there yet, I suspect.
If you were asking for useless I could recommend a few...just remember when they say you've got a solid case ask them if they are willing to work on contingency…if they back away I’d do the same with them!
Putting money into aviation is like wiping before you poop....it just don't make sense!
Hedley,
I agree with you, but knowing Rules of Civil Procedure/Court Rules is pretty important. You can get a case thrown out really easy if you don't do everything just right.
For curiosity, what did you go to the Federal court for? How did you make out? Was all the procedural stuff pretty easy? I've never done anything in Federal Court.
I agree with you, but knowing Rules of Civil Procedure/Court Rules is pretty important. You can get a case thrown out really easy if you don't do everything just right.
For curiosity, what did you go to the Federal court for? How did you make out? Was all the procedural stuff pretty easy? I've never done anything in Federal Court.
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Driving Rain
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Hedley's right there are advantages to representing yourself in court.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_marte.htm
The poor man in this unfortunately "true" Saskatchewan Saga represented himself. He had a grade 9 education, he was, I think, a house painter by trade, he immersed himself in law and he finally won against a corrupt , officious Crown.
He was vindicted because the provincal government paid him money.
It only cost him his health and precious years off his life.
Was it worth it... It was to him and for that I applaud him. Your name is everything after all.
Of the perpetrators, the Crown still practices law in the province and the two cops in question, one retired on a big fat pension and the other still carries a badge.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_marte.htm
The poor man in this unfortunately "true" Saskatchewan Saga represented himself. He had a grade 9 education, he was, I think, a house painter by trade, he immersed himself in law and he finally won against a corrupt , officious Crown.
He was vindicted because the provincal government paid him money.
It only cost him his health and precious years off his life.
Was it worth it... It was to him and for that I applaud him. Your name is everything after all.
Of the perpetrators, the Crown still practices law in the province and the two cops in question, one retired on a big fat pension and the other still carries a badge.
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Bubbaganoosh
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flyincanuck
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Re: Cheap Aviation Lawyer
Cheap-Aviation-Lawyer?cyyz wrote:Oxymoron, probably.
No, that's a double-oxymoron.
Aviation-specific lawyers are available for those that know where to find them. I do not mean some high=priced asshole that knows as much about aviation as someone buying a ticket and walking up the airstair or some lawyer that happens to have his PPL license.
I personally know two in Winnipeg and would be happy to refer. They both are experieced commercial pilots, CP's, Ops Mgr's and both ran and owned their own well-known flying operations. The last names of both are Tweed and the other is Chapman.
Want to do it all yourself? After service in the RCMP and watching same in courts you'll "have a fool for a client". Are there success stories? You bet there are, but they are very few and far between. That's why the high-priced lawyers like Greenspun have Private Investigators and as many as 35 articulling law students who do research and investigation for them on a full-time basis.......and why he costs $800-$1100/hr. You get the "justice" you can afford and it got nothing to do with "right or wrong" or who told the truth or who lied. That lady out front of courthouses and holding the scales has her eyes covered for more than one reason.
Somewheres in Toronto is a very, very good experienced aviation-specific lawyer by the name of John Andrews. He got 15,000 + hours of flying experience (Commercial) and loves to "dance" with our esteemed friends at MoT.
I personally know two in Winnipeg and would be happy to refer. They both are experieced commercial pilots, CP's, Ops Mgr's and both ran and owned their own well-known flying operations. The last names of both are Tweed and the other is Chapman.
Want to do it all yourself? After service in the RCMP and watching same in courts you'll "have a fool for a client". Are there success stories? You bet there are, but they are very few and far between. That's why the high-priced lawyers like Greenspun have Private Investigators and as many as 35 articulling law students who do research and investigation for them on a full-time basis.......and why he costs $800-$1100/hr. You get the "justice" you can afford and it got nothing to do with "right or wrong" or who told the truth or who lied. That lady out front of courthouses and holding the scales has her eyes covered for more than one reason.
Somewheres in Toronto is a very, very good experienced aviation-specific lawyer by the name of John Andrews. He got 15,000 + hours of flying experience (Commercial) and loves to "dance" with our esteemed friends at MoT.
DR, that's one farked up story... Thanks for posting it...Driving Rain wrote:Hedley's right there are advantages to representing yourself in court.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_marte.htm
As for everyone else, thanks for the tips and advice...
LH, thanks for your contacts... Hopefully it won't come down to litigation...
Bingo. The problem is, most of us don't have the coin to purchase the "justice" that OJ Simpson can, so we are left with 2 choices:You get the "justice" you can afford
1) let Transport screw you, or
2) do it yourself
Which door would you choose?
Even if you've got the coin, if Transport takes a run at you, and you fork over to a law firm the million or so bucks it's going to take to beat them at the Tribunal, Tribunal Appeal, Federal Court, Federal Court of Appeals, and the Supreme Court, even if you win, you're still out the million bucks, which is a de facto (if not de jure) fine, and the "civil servants" (who are anything but) are sure to laugh at you all the way home when they leave the office at 3pm.
All, three of the lawyers mentioned by me have taken more that one case "pro bono" and lost NOT one case doing so to date. The former, Chapman, is also a retired SCCA driver of some note at one time and he has no fear of the word "risk". He's no Sydney Greenspun, but high-priced Sydney would be out-of-his-depth tangling with his kind of knowledge about the aviation world. The reverse would also be true. They're out there guys.......ya just gotta find them. There's more I'm sure, but I hope I helped a little bit.
